The following problem

[XDV800]

Hell no.
I see what the issue is, but,
Another handout to the states coffers.
Does the current testing for DRIVING JUST A CAR prevent incidents on the road?
You reckon the instructing would be full on and in depth enough to actually get through to the plonkers?
Don't give the government money spinning ideas m8, I'm sure you're the last 1 that would want that.

[JC]

I wanted to vote Yes, but don't like any of the yes options. Just a straight yes will do me.

[Full Noise]

I love caravans.

In fact, the Viscount Grand Tourer is my favourite. Look at what I did to this one five years ago.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I love caravans.

In fact, the Viscount Grand Tourer is my favourite. Look what I did to this one five years ago.

Hmmmm...not a fatal I hope (well, not for you, as you're posting!). I take it they just stopped?

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by JC

Hmmmm...not a fatal I hope?

No but it was a little scary for a while. The police weren’t sure if the old lady in the passenger seat would pull through, but thankfully, she was OK. They pulled out from a Give Way sign without looking.

Just one of those things. I don’t think they’ll do it again.

Although, I did receive a notice saying that I was officially banned from the caravan and camping show. Apparently, they don’t like my type.

[Mickxr8]

i vote yes for testing. from a young age i was taught to haul/reverse some decent size stuff. 30"caravan for an example , i love going to the tip and boat ramps and watch these moppets in there 50k+ cars having a big fail lol

[Dave R]

Definitely yes, atleast educate people who are driving with anything bigger than a regular box trailer. I tow a 25 foot boat trailer and have found that unless you are alert at all times (particularly in traffic) and know how to handle having something that large attached to the rear of your car, you could get yourself into some serious strife.

Having a car accident is one thing, but having a boat or caravan collide with another moving vehicle is potentially life threatening. It's even worse when anyone with a standard drivers license is allowed to pilot their own death rig.

[mik]

Originally Posted by TUF_302

The first thing they need to fix is all the un-roadworthy traliers you see on the road, cant remember how many i've seen with tail lights that are faulty, and some of the older timber ones that are rotting should be taken off the road, they are a big hazard, there doesn't seem to be much policing on what condition some people keep there trailers in,

Once that was sorted i think there should be a test for anything over a standard 6x4 box trailer, the problem is of course even if you train people to tow, some people just wont be able to, alot of people struggle with a car, let alone one with some attached to it lol!

from memory you don`t even have to get a road worthy on a caravan in vic , its a joke really.

[Jason[98.EL]]

this link is a list of items excempt ofroadworthy certificates

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...worthiness.htm

[fordv8!]

yes!!

[SSD-85]

I did not vote in poll, as there is no option for what id like to see. I will happily admit that I cant manouver a trailer to save myself. Reversing one, for me, is an embarrassing spectacle to see. As a result I really try to avoid towing as much as possible, if not for the above, then for the safety of myself and others.
So yes, I believe towing should be an extension of a license for ALL trailers, including box types. Or at the very least, be a part of the examinations for getting a provisional license.
I am not aware of whether trailers are required to be roadworthy by law, but if not then they should be. And im talking about more than just tail lights. Some I see getting around are just plain scary.

[SM1DY]

I voted no, mainly for the fact that on the rarest occasion a person would need to tow a caravan, trailer or similar, they shouldn't have to take a test if they have no intention of using their towbar again in the fore-seeable future.

It would seem that maybe common decency would dictate that before long hauls on the road maybe a couple laps around the block or even a few reversing attempts in a deserted carparks would be the polite thing to do.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

No but it was a little scary for a while. The police weren’t sure if the old lady in the passenger seat would pull through, but thankfully, she was OK. They pulled out from a Give Way sign without looking.

Just one of those things. I don’t think they’ll do it again.

Although, I did receive a notice saying that I was officially banned from the caravan and camping show. Apparently, they don’t like my type.

I think with attitudes like yours you're going to have a few people very worried.
For names' sake let's just say Jermey Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May.
God bless you sir for ridding the world of another moving obstacle.
Now all we need to do is train that truck of yours to hunt Camry's and Pious's.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Definitely yes, atleast educate people who are driving with anything bigger than a regular box trailer. I tow a 25 foot boat trailer and have found that unless you are alert at all times (particularly in traffic) and know how to handle having something that large attached to the rear of your car, you could get yourself into some serious strife.

Having a car accident is one thing, but having a boat or caravan collide with another moving vehicle is potentially life threatening. It's even worse when anyone with a standard drivers license is allowed to pilot their own death rig.

It is very funny when you someone has forgotten they have a trailer and they turn corners the same; the one wheel up on the gutter bounce and the trailer almost tipping.

I remember not long ago I saw a guy with a box trailer turn on to parramatta road, cut the corner and the trailer bounced so high on one side, it came off the back of his car. By the time he realised this had happened he slammed on his brakes and ended up with the A frame and ripping his diff out, as well as severe body damage to his car. It all could have been avoided to had he used a decent D shackle that didn't snap when he slammed his brakes on. The rubbish in the trailer had spilled out everywhere, and the young man who was wearing his white dress with his big black beard then proceeded to go berserk. It was almost as funny as going to a boat ramp.

[vanman_75]

again it should be part of your licence ,but another spin on it and i personally have seen it a thousand times ,wrong tow vehicle .... if it was policed i firmly believe most towed trailers would be well in excess of the vehicles limit ..

hence why i drive a patrol its primary thing is to tow my boat/trailer . the towed thing can whip and bounce as much as it likes it wont upset my car ,now go look on the road and look at boats /semis /caravans ,i think the calculation on vehicle tow weight is way too high ,training or not . I tow a kevlacat on occasions at 30 feet but only short distances, now i wont tow it at any speed even though it is under my tow weight of 3500 ,its a friends boat so its not my place to go buy the right vehicle ...but if and when i get in that situation i would buy the overkill vehicle ,f250 plus as an example .

come up north here and see all the road trains whipping around ,how and why there are not more of them in ditches is beyond me .and in saying that i have seen many a caravan ,torn apart by road trains so ...question should they be on the road with such a weak build or stucture ,me personally dont think so .should we have b doubles ,should a falcon be able to hook up a tandem with another car on it ,should a excel even be allowed to tow at all ?or should a towing speed limit be applied ? trained to tow would be a start so i will vote yes ,but it is a big issue i think .

[Raptor]

No, there's too many bloody rules and restrictions already.

Lets just re task speed cameras for towing violations and generally being a pest/idiot on the road offenses instead.

I can't believe how many of you quickly jumped to the 'yes' lets legislate our lives some more options.

Is this like the Australian Republic referendum vote? 1 no option but 6 yes options.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by RG

Yes, definitely.

First bloody thing on the test should be reversing. The amount of attempts some people take is just stupid.

If you can;t do it, don't go to the bloody tip and try there.

My thinking exactly. I have towed a trailer all of twice in my life and can't reverse one to save myself!! I've been in cars towing trailers under numerous cirmcumstances so I know to be aware of the issues involved, but I give up at trying to reverse it up the driveway :

Lessons and a test for towing is a great idea IMO.

[SB076]

I voted no - if they are driving as bad as you say more laws wont solve the problem you need enforcement and if there are not the police to enforce the law whats the point? Second reason is that we have lessons and tests before we are able to drive, but many who pass these tests and lessons still cant drive.

If police noticed the caravan drifing in and out of lanes etc charge them with reckless driving, or if the load is moving around hit them with having an unsecured load - which ever is more appropriate depending on the case

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Raptor

No, there's too many bloody rules and restrictions already.

Lets just re task speed cameras for towing violations and generally being a pest/idiot on the road offenses instead.

I can't believe how many of you quickly jumped to the 'yes' lets legislate our lives some more options.

Is this like the Australian Republic referendum vote? 1 no option but 6 yes options.

Well sort of....

No

or yes but how is it to be deployed?

I did stuff it up a bit with the "garden trailer" which was an afterthought.

Even if garden trailers are exempt there is still the issue how/when the new restrictions would be enforced.
Incumbents must be given time to accomodate any new requirements.

As far as the cost, in sunny QLD it does not cost extra for different classes.

If you have auto car and bike up to 250cc you need to have your license endorsed to drive a manual or a bike over 250cc.

Other than the test this does not cost extra.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SB076

I voted no - if they are driving as bad as you say more laws wont solve the problem you need enforcement and if there are not the police to enforce the law whats the point? Second reason is that we have lessons and tests before we are able to drive, but many who pass these tests and lessons still cant drive.

If police noticed the caravan drifing in and out of lanes etc charge them with reckless driving, or if the load is moving around hit them with having an unsecured load - which ever is more appropriate depending on the case

I see your point.

So we may as well drop the driving license test altogether.

If police notice that you have no idea how to drive a car (and you have been riding a pushbike for years, how hard can it be) they just fine you and then send you on your way until you kill yourself thereby solving the problem....

[mik]

i see no one mentioned mirrors , how many times have you seen a laden trailer or caravan wider than the tow vehicle with no towing mirrors, they can`t see a thing behind them till they are half jack knifed, another good reason for some training.

[GasoLane]

I voted for the "bigger than garden trailers" option.

I don't give a toss if they can back their trailer or van, that is not a safety issue.

The main problem is on highways where they don't know how wide their trailer is and the outside wheel is sitting on the centre line. (they should be told to stay away from the centre line, the enemy is on the other side)

Or they forget that they have another 6 or 7 metres to allow for when overtaking or pulling onto the road.

[Burnout]

Must say I reckon there should be a trailer endorsement on a drivers license.

(And while were at it how about we get those licra clad fools on bi-cycles to register their bikes and follow some road rules, some of them tried to kill me last Saturday. Half a dozen of the things tired to skittle me on a pedestrian crossing).

[Pinch]

Absolutely, and this would affect me. But even with a HR licence and stage 1 and 2 advanced driving courses I still went and did a 1 day towing course. A real eye opener.

A dual axle (or triple) takes a while to get out of sorts, but once it happens you need skill (or bloody good luck) to get it back. They do not test for this on a auto C class licence. Nor is there any real mention of stopping distances, legal requirements (axle loads, ball weigh limits, breakaway trailer set up requirements, maxiumum speed of tyres, bearing maintenance etc etc etc.

I tow a 22ft boat, and have just spent more upgrading my trailer brakes than I did buying my whole car! This is not stuff you take chances with.

This is serious stuff that can get seriously out of hand, seriously quickly. That I can legally tow my rig with offering no proof of my competency except driving an auto Fiesta around the block is simply fatalities waiting to happen.

The whole lot is so long it has the DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING... signs on it, yet I can tow it on an auto C licence. Yeah right.

Maybe make it so that accredited trainers sign off your endorsement (like my HR upgrade was in NSW) rather than paying the Government more. Training and assessment costs, and I am happy to pay. My towing course was a few hundred, and if it saves one accident then it more than pays for itself just in excess charges, let alone if someone was injured. I don't think its a nanny state thing, just common (uncommon these days) sense, but I think anything over 2 tonne GVM needs a heavy passenger vehicle licence anyway - yes that catches me too. Take my brothers D22 Navara out bush now and again. I can drive it, so happy to demonstrate it.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by flappist

I see your point.

So we may as well drop the driving license test altogether.

If police notice that you have no idea how to drive a car (and you have been riding a pushbike for years, how hard can it be) they just fine you and then send you on your way until you kill yourself thereby solving the problem....

Not quite, we need to keep the driving license test (although I beleive it needs to be changed) Driving around at 50k's through a surban street than reverse parking isnt really a good indication of someones ability to operate a vehicle.

I am sure that the government would be happy to create additional laws/legislation/licensing, but at the end of the day - does it solve the problem?

If police notice that you have no idea how to drive a car, you should be pulled off the road (maybe thats the problem, Governments are desperate for cash, they see fines as the answer to all our short comings. Maybe they need to try a different approach?)

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by flappist

This weekend I went for a wander to a function in Crows Nest and as it is "caravan season" on the New England Hwy there were lots of them.

One tried to kill me and another car on the way down and one tried to wipe out a whole line of traffic on the way back.

Both times it appeared that the driver "forgot" they had a trailer.

A loony with 3 motorbikes on a trailer being towed by an ancient commodore was convinced, I am sure, that the trailer had IRS and didn't seem to notice it bouncing around crossing the centre line several times.

So the question.....

Should there be a "trailer endorsement" or category on a driver's license required before a driver can tow a trailer and if so how should it be brought in?

not just yes but hell yes.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I voted for the "bigger than garden trailers" option.

I don't give a toss if they can back their trailer or van, that is not a safety issue.

The main problem is on highways where they don't know how wide their trailer is and the outside wheel is sitting on the centre line. (they should be told to stay away from the centre line, the enemy is on the other side)

Or they forget that they have another 6 or 7 metres to allow for when overtaking or pulling onto the road.

Spot on. Being able (or not being able) to reverse a trailer is not an indicator of someone's ability to drive with one on the roads and is an unreasonable benchmark to use to judge someone's ability to tow.

Towing a trailer on a suburban street or highway is all about being aware of your increased size and GVM and how this affects your car's acceleration, braking, handling and other road users. Henceforth, you need to drive to suit the conditions, except in this case, its not the weather, its your vehicle mass and size that is altering your driving conditions.

If you cannot demonstrate your understanding of the above, then this lack of understanding will obviously carry through to your driving and accordingly, you shouldn't be allowed to tow.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by davway

If your automatically entitled to a Manual car license, without having to do any further training, tests or anything other than holding an Automatic car license for the term of your P plates, what chance do you think there ever will be to introduce something like this?

Slightly off the topic, but is this correct??. I remember another thread a while back on the pros and cons of learning on a manual/ auto, and can't recall this rule being mentioned.Seems like a highly backassward thought process if it is so, and opens my eyes a little as to why it may be such a drag to drive in Vic.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Slightly off the topic, but is this correct??. I remember another thread a while back on the pros and cons of learning on a manual/ auto, and can't recall this rule being mentioned.Seems like a highly backassward thought process if it is so, and opens my eyes a little as to why it may be such a drag to drive in Vic.

Yes, is the case here in NSW. Do your test on an auto and that's all you can drive unaccompanied for the first year of your licence. You can drive a manual accompanied by a full licence holder under the learner type rules. If you want to drive unaccompanied within the initial 12 months then you have to do your test in a manual, otherwise you just wait out the 12 months, take no instruction or prove any competency in driving a manual and unleash hell...

Awesome policy, really! :

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Spend a day at a boat ramp for giggles... it will highlight the problem with the lack of skills most people have when it comes to using a trailer....

LOL, and a boat!!