New Car Manufacturing in Australia: Is the ship sinking?

[OzJavelin]

Aussie built, RWD sedans (and utes, wagons, etc) tried to do a bit of everything. People carriers, load carriers, trailer luggers, urban runabouts, long distance cruisers, performance vehicle and urban shopping trolley. It's not the way in the modern world of disposable income and and disposable appliances; those utilitarian-type, multipurpose platformed vehicles are gone. I will miss them ..

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Interestingly, Ford missed the deadline to apply for funding for the next gen Falcon post 2016, finally confirming the likelihood of the closure of Broadmeadows after the FG.

Not sure about that, although I have been told this is the last Territory we will see, a couple of minor upgrades in the coming years after this we will be getting a global Explorer and the Ute will also be on the chopping block leaving us with only a global Ranger type of Ute.
Inside this decade we will see global made Fords here and all over the world.
Wonder what all that land would be worth at Broadmeadows in 2020.

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/124865/h...turing-future/

Holden unsure of Australian car manufacturing future
By Tim Beissmann | June 27th, 2011

Holden has warned Federal Government policies and proposals have cast doubt over the sustainability of Australia’s car industry in the long term.

Holden CEO Mike Devereux said the abolishment of the Green Car Innovation Fund (GCIF) and an impending carbon tax will put Australia – already an expensive country to manufacturer cars – on even shakier ground from a long-term manufacturing perspective.

“It also is a country with virtually zero import tariffs, so you’ve got relatively high costs, zero barriers to entry,” Mr Devereux told ABC News.

“In order for it to make sense to make things here there needs to be some, what I consider, some smart industry policy, which there was just a few years ago.”

Mr Devereux said a carbon tax could increase the price of doing business in Australia by as much as $40 million to$50 million every year, and suggested there might need to be a “co-investment scheme” to offset some of those costs.

“We’re raising the cost of doing business in this country whilst other countries around Australia might not be doing the same thing,” he said.

“There’s no question that we have to reduce emissions … but there has to be some public-private partnership to negotiate what are fairly rocky shoals here.”

Holden endured $579 million in losses between 2005 and 2009. In 2010, it recorded a $138 million before-tax profit, although with almost $160 million of government funding and foreign exchange windfalls included in this figure, the actual result without taxpayer funding and currency movements was more like a $20 million plus loss.

You can read all about the future of the Australian new car manufacturing industry in our recent editorial, as well as the state of Toyota Australia – our country’s largest vehicle seller, manufacturer and exporter.

What do you make of Mr Devereux’s comments? Do you agree that there needs to be more support for the three local manufacturers, or do they need to be able to fend for themselves in the long-term?

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

One of the biggest problems is not the wages it's the other "costs" such as heightened safety and environmental obligations. Not to mention workcover, payroll tax and other taxes Ford, Holden and Toyota pay in Australia.

Agreed, there are a lot of costs of doing business in Australia that simply dont exist in other countries.

A lot of people knock Ford and Holdens choice (building a large RWD vehicle) However you need to take into account the number of vehciles they have spun off from that platform (Utes, Wagons, Territories etc) To see why they have gone down this path.

If one more manufacturer goes, it will possibly bring along the demise of the other two - as the supplier base will struggle to be viable.

Australia needs a diverse range of industries especially in the current economic climate, to provide jobs and security. Unfortunately its not just the automotive industry that is struggling. Manufacturing and farming have struggled to compete with overseas industries for some time. Its interesting to read that retailers are starting to suffer.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Not sure about that, although I have been told this is the last Territory we will see, a couple of minor upgrades in the coming years after this we will be getting a global Explorer and the Ute will also be on the chopping block leaving us with only a global Ranger type of Ute.
Inside this decade we will see global made Fords here and all over the world.
Wonder what all that land would be worth at Broadmeadows in 2020.

What worries me is all this seems to line up with the time frame surrounding the intended use by date for the I6 as well. It is like all of the planets are lining up!

Bud Bud

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

There was a grim article in today's Financial Review where Holden's CEO said that the future of Holden in Australia is now uncertain because of the government's scrapping of the Green Car Innovation Fund. The argument was basically that the government had betrayed the car companies and withdrew promised funding that was to be used for future projects. Now that the money for those projects is gone, he said there is really no point in continuing to manufacture here - the same was said about Toyota and Ford.

Interestingly, Ford missed the deadline to apply for funding for the next gen Falcon post 2016, finally confirming the likelihood of the closure of Broadmeadows after the FG.

A lot of good points there, sounds like Holden are already cring out for more money, god they shyte me. Ford's goose is cooked and it is evident everywhere you look. Maybe Holden and Ford can become a government owned conglomerate? Aussie Leyland anyone?

[mik]

heh, it`s funny they think it`s only motor car manufacturing in Australia that has a dubious future, without blaming anyone specifically (other than our stupid pollies), our manufacturing generally has been heading down the creek(er no down the rapids) without a paddle for decades, i`m sure other old farts such as myself would have seen it happening also.
a polly said on the box last night that the "coal industry is going to go "and with a smile on his face (guess who),
textiles in oz went down the toilet years ago due to imports, .............., look at farmers, , the big supermarket chains are slowly squeezing them out of existence and it`s happening every day under our noses, again the pollies are letting this happen(no encouraging it).
getting back to car manufacture , i hate to be a pessimist, but its hard to imagine any left here at all in oz in 20/30 years time.

[Bud Bud]

I might add that I think it was a mistake to drop the whole V6 duratec idea as well. This model would have sat much better with "One Ford's" post GFC directives. Unfortunately this decision needed to be made pre GFC (like it was) because it would be too late now. And yeh, hind sight is a wonderful thing.

Bud Bud

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

I might add that I think it was a mistake to drop the whole V6 duratec idea as well. This model would have sat much better with "One Ford's" post GFC directives. Unfortunately this decision needed to be made pre GFC (like it was) because it would be too late now. And yeh, hind sight is a wonderful thing.

Bud Bud

Well Ford NA has been trying to kill the Falcon off since the 70's. So if they could keep it going and continue to scale it down with government funding when they had no intention of keeping it alive why would they bother?

[Buntz]

We may be far away.... but we can still be integrated.

Our products need to be integrated. At least GM are giving it a go.

[JPFS1]

It is not FoA anymore....

[da_ilks]

The government will continue to prop up the local makers for some time because if Ford and/or Holden went, the wider damage to local manufacturers/suppliers would be massive. Plenty of people would become unemployed overnight.

It really is a shame, because both the Falcon and Commodore could be succesful in the US & Europe if given the right push from their respective HQ's, but unfortunately the US bosses aren't interested for whatever reason.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

It is not FoA anymore....

... and hasn't been for a while now.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

It is not FoA anymore....

I wonder how local Ford chiefs are feeling about the next gen Falcon....

Still, it must be good to know that if they "follow the rules" then the seemingly impossible becomes possible...

[JPFS1]

yes, well it's not all bad....

but no guarantees yet.

[Franco Cozzo]

I say death to Holden and Ford's local range, and bring over their USA market vehicles here at their prices.

To hell with Falcon, Territory and Commodore when you can get F series, Silverado, Camaro, Mustang, Taurus (new one is great), Volt etc.

Manufacturing in Australia is dead, lets hurry up and get those job losses into the mines and get lots of uranium to China, India and Russia. Turn 90% of our barren wasteland country into a big hole.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I say death to Holden and Ford's local range, and bring over their USA market vehicles here at their prices.

hahaha, love how people think that car prices will drop. Australia is considered a country that will pay a premium price and don't expect US pricing here.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by vztrt

hahaha, love how people think that car prices will drop. Australia is considered a country that will pay a premium price and don't expect US pricing here.

True, how can you expect US pricing for a market more than 1/13th the size. Apple don't sell cheaper here, Levi's, Panasonic, Canon, Honda, Toyota..lol.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

hahaha, love how people think that car prices will drop. Australia is considered a country that will pay a premium price and don't expect US pricing here.

Thats why I underlined at their prices, I'm not paying $150K for a $30,000 F150.

I guess thats why I buy games from Hong Kong, my shoes from the USA and books from the UK because I don't like paying rip-off Australian pricing on everything.

Why pay $230 for my boots I can get for $70 delivered to my door, don't even have to get off my fat ***. Hell because its under $1000 I don't pay GST on it either and the states I buy from in the USA have no sales taxes either.

If you buy from Australia, you're a moron, I support my wallet, I don't care about your job.

Because your job isn't my job.

The company I work for got rid of our Sydney manufacturing workshop because we could get more from China for way less, quality isn't as good but for the price you pay, who cares? Our clients keep coming back.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by mik

heh, it`s funny they think it`s only motor car manufacturing in Australia that has a dubious future, without blaming anyone specifically (other than our stupid pollies), our manufacturing generally has been heading down the creek(er no down the rapids) without a paddle for decades, i`m sure other old farts such as myself would have seen it happening also.
a polly said on the box last night that the "coal industry is going to go "and with a smile on his face (guess who),
textiles in oz went down the toilet years ago due to imports, .............., look at farmers, , the big supermarket chains are slowly squeezing them out of existence and it`s happening every day under our noses, again the pollies are letting this happen(no encouraging it).
getting back to car manufacture , i hate to be a pessimist, but its hard to imagine any left here at all in oz in 20/30 years time.

Spot on. It's not just the car manufacturing that's dying here, It's all our manufacturing.........

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If you buy from Australia, you're a moron, I support my wallet, I don't care about your job.

Because your job isn't my job.

You fishing or something today?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

You fishing or something today?

No, I just wonder why people support Australian business when you get the same thing for less with less effort involved.

More for less $$$ sounds good to me.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

No, I just wonder why people support Australian business when you get the same thing for less with less effort involved.

More for less $$$ sounds good to me.

Maybe because without Australian businesses where do we work..we can't all be waiters to tourists (no offence to waiters)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I wonder how local Ford chiefs are feeling about the next gen Falcon....

Still, it must be good to know that if they "follow the rules" then the seemingly impossible becomes possible...

Originally Posted by JPFS1

yes, well it's not all bad....

but no guarantees yet.

^^^^^^^ LISTEN TO HIM.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by bigdude1011

At the beginning, the Mitsubishi Diamante (Verada sold in Japan and USA) was somewhat popular.

the diamante was not an aussie built export though, it was japanese built, and fairly superior in many ways to the aussie magna.

[roberts]

so true about the ship sinking, i have worked in dealerships for many years and when the GFC hit I got the fu-- out thinking it was going down, kept getting offered jobs but had a holiday while knowing what was happening, but good old Australians keep borrowing money so it stayed afloat (50 billion on credit cards last year) I work at a dealership now (I wont be making any big commitments though) but only because Gillard wanted me in the mines. But I would say the can has been kicked and where back to it again, having such a high exchange rate is the nail in the coffin.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If you buy from Australia, you're a moron, I support my wallet, I don't care about your job.

Because your job isn't my job.

The company I work for got rid of our Sydney manufacturing workshop because we could get more from China for way less, quality isn't as good but for the price you pay, who cares? Our clients keep coming back.

but If I lose my job then I dont spend money at your job so you lose your job, grade 10 economics

[roberts]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Maybe because without Australian businesses where do we work..we can't all be waiters to tourists (no offence to waiters)

what tourist, the exchange rate keeps them away, oh you mean the people that come here because of the labour shortages

[roberts]

most economists well say that the sooner everybody gets out of manufacturing and into the mines the better.
They are unaustralian ****e-s.
its bitter sweet, we dig up our land to sell our commonalities to china, and china makes useless cheap sh-t that breaks and ends up back in our land. So swapping good stuff for sh-t is apparenlty the australian dream, or Gillards. dream anyway.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

yes, well it's not all bad....

but no guarantees yet.

How long before that guarantee could be locked in?