Mitsubishi 380 Nov sales

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Yaw

The Avalon was from the european market not the american market.
I was actually quite disappointed when they decided not to let the Avalons race in the early days of super V8's, seems to me they were too scared of a more highly developed japanese V8 beating the local cars. As for the 380 it is built to directly compete with the falcon and commodore, the avalon was not made to that market, the avalon was competing with the stateman and fairlane market.

It is against the forum rules to insult you directly, so I won't.

The Avalon, Toyota themselves repetiadley say, is their competitor for the Commodore and Falcon. It is almost $20k cheaper base vs the base Fairlane and Statesman, and in most expensive guise, STILL cheaper then a base Fairlane or Statesman. It's also not as big. It's also not luxurious.

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsa...el_name=AVALON

Originally Posted by Carsales.com.au Research Cars section

Introduction
Toyota's new large car, the Avalon, has been released to compete against Commodore, Falcon and Magna in the Large segment. The Avalon is locally manufactured at Toyota's Altona plant. The floorpan is based on that of the Camry, which is also locally manufactured. Toyota expect to sell more of the higher grade Avalon models than is the norm for large cars such as Commodore and Falcon. The Avalon will sell to vehicle fleets and private buyers in roughly equal numbers, as opposed to Falcon and Commodore, of which only approximately 18% sell to private buyers.

Ahem. It's also based on an outdated US design (Avalon has been sold there for a long time). It is not European based. It's 2006/07 replacement will wear a different name, and ditch the inferior US design.

It has the dynamic's of a boat. My mate's mum has a 2000 Avalon Conquest, it corners like a boat. Body rolls alot, and the steering is horrible. It's ultra light with absolutley no feel whatsoever.

As for being well built. Depends on your definition of well built... and let me tell you, Avalon isn't well built in my books. It's inferior to the Camry. It's inferior to the Falcon. Probably on par with Mitsubishi/Commodore. The bloke my dad drives for put one on as a cab, and took it off the road in 8 months... too many problems. And the one my mate's mum has isn't looking too crash hot for a 5 yr old car. Remember, it's not a true Japanese car... it's built here, based off an American design.

Anyway, I wouldn't compare the 380 to Falcon or Commodore. It can't compete. Avalon/Camry would be more suitable competition IMO.

[Polyal]

Well...I cant believe I agree with steffo...but your spot on.

Except for the 380 bit, it is a falcon and commodore competitor. Ok the dynamics/physics are different (not bad, just different) but everything else is in the same class.

[EFFalcon]

employee pricing doens't seem to be doing a whole lot.

[jonk]

The 380 is actually better built quality wise than either of the other 3 manufacturer's local built stuff now. The bosses at Mitsi's have been quite impressed with what they've been able to achieve.

As for it being a problem FWD, at a drop of a hat the car can be converted to AWD, it's just a matter of money... and they did run out of it. That's why there is no traction control, telescopic steering wheel, fold down rear seats and side curtain airbags... all essential stuff I believe in modern cars.

As for some of you who wish bad things on Mitsubishi, have a heart ! If they go, 3000 workers in Adelaide lose out. The fact that Holden sacked over 1000 workers speaks volumes for their lack of forward planning... that third shift should never have gone ahead, EVER. Holden have mud on their face, Toyota can't build a decent large car(Avalon), and Ford are dynamic in design but can't get consistent quality problems fixed.

If some of you in the eastern state's were able to read on a daily basis in the local rags about how Mitsi's have gone to hell and back, updating ancient equipment and using machinery never before used in Oz, I'm sure you would see them & the 380 in a different light. It's a pity some of you don't.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by jonk

As for some of you who wish bad things on Mitsubishi, have a heart ! If they go, 3000 workers in Adelaide lose out.

Oh no, I don't want them to close shop and put 3000 people out of a job. I'd just like to see 300C replace the 380, and Chrsyler replace Mitsubishi. It's very highly unlikely to happen... but hey, it'd be nice. Another good looking, dynamically good RWD 6 and 8cyl sedan to compete with Falc' and Commo'.

Originally Posted by jonk

The 380 is actually better built quality wise than either of the other 3 manufacturer's local built stuff now.

Yet to be proven.

[Polyal]

jonk...

Thats business really, it sucks but what can ya do. People shouldn't buy a 380 just because they feel bad.

We have one at work, and let me tell you its really not that special at all. The interior might be well put together but the quality of the plastics really isn't high at all, not to mention the fugly digital clock that looks like it was plucked from the 80's.

I dont have anything against a good car, but the 380 is mediocre at best.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Yaw

Thats EXACTLY the attitude I am talking about.
If you had of taken 5 seconds more to look at the year to date stats on the
fairlane/stateman/avalon you would have seen:
Year To Date
Fairlane 2077
Stateman 4281
Avalon 5207.

Do you realise they don't even make the Avalon anymore, they canned it months ago because no one wanted them, except for maybe a few old folks who aren't far from the grave.

[SUVshopper]

There are a couple of things that Mitsubishi could do to improve 380 sales.
1) The rrp price is too high.
It should be reduced by a minimum of 10% for all models. How often have you heard an acquaintance or a colleague said that he would not buy the car because the price was too high? Mitsubishi is not a market leader in the large car segment and should listen to the public when pricing the car. Although Mitsubishi claims that it's not competing with Honda, it just doesn't really make sense when the GT is so much more expensive than the Accord Euro Luxury !
2) The public is not test driving the car.
Mitsubishi is doing a good job of promoting the car in the media. However, buyers are not making an effort to go to a dealer and test drive the car. So dealers should bring the car to the buyer. A sales person offered to bring the car after work hours for me to test drive; I give him my phone no. but he never contacted me ! Dealers should also allow employees to drive the 380 as a company car to and from work. Just look at the no. of executive driven BMWs on the road promoting the marque and the models.

[Kieron]

The Avalon is most definately from the USA, it doesn't exist in the UK at all.
Its also a copmetitior in the large car segment, NOT the LWB Fairlane/Statesman segment

Its also still available, sold a might 50 units in the large car segment in October

[SUVshopper]

With the Avalon, instead of using the tooling for the new model in the US, Toyota used the tooling for the superseded model. We all know that Toyota builds reliable cars. If it also build cars that are great looking, there's no doubt in anyone's mind that it'll also control the market.

[burnout9]

i can tell you i service lots of avalons and camrys and im sorry to say this but they sh*t on any falcon or commodore. not in areas of looks or handiling but are far as quality and realiablty goes they win hands down

now before the slug match goes i dont work for toyota, i work on all sorts of cars and the million car recall toyota had was long time coming. just remember they produce alot more cars than ford or holden.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by burnout9

now before the slug match goes i dont work for toyota, i work on all sorts of cars and the million car recall toyota had as long time coming. just remember they produce alot more cars than ford or holden.

etzaktly!! Toyota sells heaps more camry's than ford and holden combined. toyota makes so many fridges a year that they know what makes a good and what makes a bad fridge... ford and not so much holden a slowly getting better but they are no where compared to the japs.< thats a full stop.

Im a dyed in the wool blue blooded ford fan but even i can see that toyota has better quality, regardles of what peoples experiences are

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Oh no, I don't want them to close shop and put 3000 people out of a job. I'd just like to see 300C replace the 380, and Chrsyler replace Mitsubishi. It's very highly unlikely to happen... but hey, it'd be nice. Another good looking, dynamically good RWD 6 and 8cyl sedan to compete with Falc' and Commo'.

Yet to be proven.

yep defanately, Bring Back Crysler!!

[Franky]

Originally Posted by burnout9

i can tell you i service lots of avalons and camrys and im sorry to say this but they sh*t on any falcon or commodore. not in areas of looks or handiling but are far as quality and realiablty goes they win hands down

Of course they are of better quality and reliablity and this is clearly their selling point.

The point here is the 380 sales and I really hope they improve this month but honesty while the car is impressive for Mitsubishi in the real world it's just not the package they need to get out of debt

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Yaw

As for your opinon on the Avalon there are quite a few goverment limos, and prestige car hire places that have Avalons.

Yeah cause they (and a small amount of Taxi Companies) are the only people that would want the car.

See a few 380's out there. They look like a decent car from the outside. I would like to see mitsubishi survive here.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Steffo

It has the dynamic's of a boat. My mate's mum has a 2000 Avalon Conquest, it corners like a boat. Body rolls alot, and the steering is horrible. It's ultra light with absolutley no feel whatsoever.

As for being well built. Depends on your definition of well built... and let me tell you, Avalon isn't well built in my books.
.

Without wanting to enter this whole debate I must say I was given an Avalon company car for 3 months and at first I thought "this is going to suck big time" but the car was quite impressive. Build quality was high, NVH was very low and most surprising of all it had quite a bit of punch from the V6 - I used to love lining up ricers at the lights and burning them off in an auto grandpa car complete with fleet stickers....The only thing that let it down was the hideous styling of the thing.

As for 380 sales - of course they are low - who in their right mind is going to pay for a brand spanker 380 when it is yet to be seen if they will flop sales wise (I am talking resale concerns here). Give it some time and wait for buyer confidence to grow - I know there was a heap of people on here that waited patiently to see how the BA would go for a year or two before purchasing one even thought they were itching to get into one.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by merlin

Without wanting to enter this whole debate I must say I was given an Avalon company car for 3 months and at first I thought "this is going to suck big time" but the car was quite impressive. Build quality was high, NVH was very low and most surprising of all it had quite a bit of punch from the V6 - I used to love lining up ricers at the lights and burning them off in an auto grandpa car complete with fleet stickers....The only thing that let it down was the hideous styling of the thing.

They're not bad. They're very, very, very comfortable. And have more rear legroom then a Commodore or Falcon (I'm 6'2 and can sit in the back with plenty of space between my legs and the front seat - with the front seat all the way back).

They're reliable cars, that is without question. But compared to some other Toyotas, especially the true Japanese made models, and even its local brother the Camry, they're not so great.

But reliable and durable are two different things. They don't stand up to being on the road for long periods of time, and taking alot of abuse from drivers for long periods of time. Neither does Camry. Or Magna. Which is why, in my experience, everything I've seen to do with this... they fail as taxi's. Commodore's have their own issues seperate to these. That's why IMO Falcon is #1 of the locally made stuff.

However, for their customer base, they're perfect. How many Avalon or Camry owners are going to hoon around in the thing and drive it like mad? Not too many... and I can vouch for Toyota reliability in the hands of its driver demographic. My grandfather had a Camry Executive 4cyl form 1987 to 2000 or 2001... and it was still like new. The only reason he got rid of it is because it got t-boned by some moron who ran a red light.

And yeah, if I needed a sensible family car I'd probably get an Avalon over a Commo' or Falc'. It's more comfortable, bigger inside etc etc. The styling would be a big off-putter though....

[FTE217]

I finally went to have a look at the 380 yesterday, I looked at the VRX and GT.
The front end is a bit "you know" but I like the back end. The shape will grow on me.
Dash looks pretty good and room at the back is sufficent, leather looks good and the seats feel fine.
Build quality imo is better than GM and Ford.
Wheels could have been a bit tougher but with 19's and lowered it would look pretty good.

[ED Classic]

Not looking good and Ford gave them the best Sedan title by not entering BF

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

However, for their customer base, they're perfect. How many Avalon or Camry owners are going to hoon around in the thing and drive it like mad? Not too many... and I can vouch for Toyota reliability in the hands of its driver demographic.

I disagree. Both Magna and Camry have just as many fleet sales as Commodore and Falcon, I know several tech companies that have an entire fleet of camrys and magnas for their reps to travel around Sydney and environs in, no issues there.

Likewise, the police and other emergency services have been using these two vehicles just like any other, quite a few of the VRX Magnas have been used for highway patrol and dectectives as well.

With Magna's shocking resale, a lot of young people can now also afford to buy an ex fleet magna for a good bang for your buck. If you discount the 18 months and 40,000km a TJ2 spent as fleet car, and then you pick it up for $17,000, its an awesome buy.

As for wanting Chrysler back, there was light hearted talk when daimlerchrysler bought part of MM. But now they have dumped MM, so the chances of Chrysler coming back is the slimmest it has been for years. Also, given all the government's assistance on the Mitsubishi plant, and the high exit taxes mitsubishi would face upon closure, I think they will stick around for a while longer.

I'm sure everyone could understand the product cycle of new products. some sell like hotcakes from new, others not so - there may be a gradual ramp up in sales once word of mouth spreads, the vehicle is fully evaluated by fleets etc.

Im sure a lot of fleets are waiting for evidence of the stability of the 380s pricing structure and it's effect on resale.

[jonk]

As it turns out, both Ford & Holden are cheap now because of 2005 stock they're trying to flog off desperately before 2006 plate cars come online. Nothing unusual there.

Mitsi's now don't have to build cars to put into holding yards anymore, since they can truly build them to order for dealers with their new 'cage storage' of different coloured body's/models inside the factory. They were the worst at over producing a car/Magna then having to flog it off still six months later from the holding yards at the back M. Motors.

The great thing about Magna which will forcefully inspire Ford/Holden is the depowered Magna V6 motor which can be easily upgraded and, the ability to drop in WRX like AWD system into it, neither of which has been made mention of anywhere. Mitsubishi have this up their sleeve; for once, they can compete down the track... and that competitive environment is sorely needed now. One thing now though is Camry/Avalon are now fast becoming fuel guzzlers compared to the others; with only four speed auto's they are handicaped straight away with no talk of five speed's at Toyota yet. Some of the fuel usage figures from the Toyota's smaller 3.5l V6's are bloody terrible in comparison with near dead on 12l/100km usage.

[Dave_au]

Mitsubishi hits brakes
From: AAP
By James Stanford

December 07, 2005

IN another ominous sign for Australia's car industry, Mitsubishi Australia is preparing to scale back production of its 380 model less than two months after it was launched as competition intensifies.
The Adelaide-based car maker said the make-or-break 380 model had been selling in line with its predictions, but it was already preparing to build fewer of them.

New Mitsubishi Australia president Robert McEniry said the company was not prepared to offer the type of discounts being used by its Australian rivals and understood its sales could suffer.

"We want to get away from that, it will be very painful for us to do it but we want to build a brand that people respect in the market place," Mr McEniry said.

The former Holden marketing chief has attacked local rivals for making too many cars and then slashing prices.

The problem is that while demand (for large cars) has been slipping, some of the local manufacturers have been slow in reducing their production levels, so not only are inventories high, but they are still increasing," Mr McEniry said.

"Discounting and incentivising is running rampant. Nowhere is this more obvious than the large car segment where the urgency to fix mass inventories is high and the discounts most drastic."

Holden currently has 8000 cars in stock, a higher figure than normal, and has reduced its workforce by 1000 and cut its daily production rate.

Ford has less cars in storage than Holden, but still more than normal, and is offering 350 redundancy packages to workers and is preparing to reduce line speed at its Campbellfield factory.

Mitsubishi Australia slashed 650 jobs last year when it closed down its Lonsdale engine plant as Mitsubishi's global operations came close to a meltdown.

Mitsubishi believes that by refusing to cut its prices, it will be able to maintain the resale values of the 380. The outgoing Magna was known for poor resale values and that in turn damaged its fleet sales.

Despite planning to wind back production so early in the 380's life cycle, Mr McEniry remains positive the car will be a success.

Mitsubishi sold 1650 cars in November and expects to shift 2500 a month when the model acceptance builds next year.

"Despite an extremely competitive market and possibly the worst launch conditions for a new large car in 20 years, sales to date have been within our planning expectations," Mr McEniry said.

New cars sales would be slow across the board early next year before picking up in the back half.

He predicts a sales total of 975,000 for 2006, still short of the 1 million mark the market was hoping for.

The automotive parts industry is wary of a slowdown. Max Hofmeister, chairman of Brisbane-based automotive supplier CMI, has warned his shareholders about the "difficult circumstances" currently confronting the industry.

These included the ever-increasing cost of raw materials, the impact of the high Australian dollar on the competitiveness of locally manufactured products and high petrol prices affecting freight costs and consumer confidence.

"In our business it is very difficult to pass on material and labour increases, so managers have to focus on efficiencies and total cost reductions," Mr Hofmeister said in his recent speech to the company's annual general meeting.

With Chris Jones

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Steffo

But reliable and durable are two different things. They don't stand up to being on the road for long periods of time, and taking alot of abuse from drivers for long periods of time. Neither does Camry. Or Magna.

I'll have to disagree with your statement on the camery not standing up to abuse. I pretty much had one on all of my P's and I hammered the crap out of it. We still have it my dad now drives it. The engines on those little six cylenders are tuff. I overheated the blasted thing (according to my dad the mechanic put the thermostst on backwards) a few times and it's still kicking. Drove it yesterday and man it handals like a bag of s#it compared to the XR.

The only design flaw these cars had were a faulty cage bearing in the tranny that breaks and destroys the diff as well as giving the car no reverse gear.

I just hope the BA will be able to stand up to the punishment I give it, the the ford six is a great engine.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I'll have to disagree with your statement on the camery not standing up to abuse. I pretty much had one on all of my P's and I hammered the crap out of it. We still have it my dad now drives it. The engines on those little six cylenders are tuff. I overheated the blasted thing (according to my dad the mechanic put the thermostst on backwards) a few times and it's still kicking. Drove it yesterday and man it handals like a bag of s#it compared to the XR.

The only design flaw these cars had were a faulty cage bearing in the tranny that breaks and destroys the diff as well as giving the car no reverse gear.

I just hope the BA will be able to stand up to the punishment I give it, the the ford six is a great engine.

Was your car on the road night and day, every day of the week (24/7)... constantly idling in traffic, etc etc... like a taxi is? They fail when used in this way, I've seen the results with my own eyes. Commodore's are the worst in this regard... they "boil," so to speak. That's what I mean by abuse over a long period of time.

[Dave_au]

Steffo, your logic is too simplistic, just because fords get used as a taxi doesn't mean to say that they are the most reliable. Other fleets use other brands too, taxi's just happen to be the most visable.

I think the original ford lpg taxi pack and its obese size made it the cabbies choice in the domestic market. Look elsewhere in the world and I'm sure you'll be able to find a Camry taxi fleet.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Steffo, your logic is too simplistic, just because fords get used as a taxi doesn't mean to say that they are the most reliable. Other fleets use other brands too, taxi's just happen to be the most visable.

I think the original ford lpg taxi pack and its obese size made it the cabbies choice in the domestic market. Look elsewhere in the world and I'm sure you'll be able to find a Camry taxi fleet.

I've seen Commodore (3.8 V6), Magna (3.5 V6) and Avalon (3.0 V6) used as taxis, and I've seen them all fail. Commodore's cook their engines, they have alot of problems with sitting around idling all day in traffic... get very hot. The Mitsu's don't fair much better. The Avalon was the best of the non-Falcon lot... but the Ford wins out. It endures the demands of the work better then the others, plus the parts for it are more readily available, and the people in the business are more adapt at working with 4.0 Falcons then any other car.

In less extreme use though... Magna and Camry/Avalon are definitley very good cars.

Can't say the same thing about Commodore though :

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by Yaw

the avalon was competing with the stateman and fairlane market.

ROFLMAO

[bathurst77]

i LOVE this quote

"The former Holden marketing chief has attacked local rivals for making too many cars and then slashing prices."

Now while he was at GMh he would have been partly if not completely responsible for their doing this, but now he is at Mitsu who cant give 380s away, he is slamming them for it? And Mitsu were the WORST for doing this during Magnas life.

You got to love all large company xecutive management for being full of hypocritcal humbug (full of Super Hypocritical Imaginative Tripe)

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Was your car on the road night and day, every day of the week (24/7)... constantly idling in traffic, etc etc... like a taxi is? They fail when used in this way, I've seen the results with my own eyes. Commodore's are the worst in this regard... they "boil," so to speak. That's what I mean by abuse over a long period of time.

From what I have seen the JK model (pre VVTi) was a tuff motor, VVTi has been said to wear out quicker(don't quote me on that). This car did a lot of cross country trips, red-lined allot, allot of cross city driving and took a lot of abuse. It did overheat on me a few times (thermostat problem) and the motor is still going strong. For a car that's almost 13 years old it's actually had minimal problems except for the transmission design flaw. I can guarantee a Falcon motor would have needed the head gasket changed it this was the case.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I've seen Commodore (3.8 V6), Magna (3.5 V6) and Avalon (3.0 V6) used as taxis, and I've seen them all fail. Commodore's cook their engines, they have alot of problems with sitting around idling all day in traffic... get very hot. The Mitsu's don't fair much better. The Avalon was the best of the non-Falcon lot... but the Ford wins out. It endures the demands of the work better then the others, plus the parts for it are more readily available, and the people in the business are more adapt at working with 4.0 Falcons then any other car.

In less extreme use though... Magna and Camry/Avalon are definitley very good cars.

Can't say the same thing about Commodore though :

your a cyclops, there is no real fact amongst your post.