Blu Ray / FULL HD

[eb_5litre]

Which is better for PORN?

[Sledgehammer]

One things for sure, the tech always increases and the price drops....

[MeestaNob!]

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

Which is better for PORN?

Depends on the source material. Is Lesbian Vixens IV anamorphic widescreen and DTS or what?
<dies>

[eb_5litre]

Theres a #IV now???? cheerin

[SVR73]

Though I don't have the latest TV's, just a 100hz, as a movie collector since 1980 of beta, US and Aus VHS, NTSC laserdisc and DVD, I keep my eyes on imdb video forum and today I checked on there to find that HD DVD is winning the war in the US

The HD DVD units are half the price and the samsung player seen at JB hi fi stores now has playback issues when it was new over there

[Donny]

The biggest thing that pi$$es me off about all this television stuff and new dvd's is that none of it is designed to last anymore.
I have had the same tv for over 10 years now (59cm Sony TV), and would just love to update into somthing bigger, nicer and newer, but I dont want to spend lots, because it's all getting like mobile phones where new models come out every 6 effin months.....

I dont watch tv much as there is stuff all on that is interesting, foxtel and austar are plain rip offs, and until you can choose your own tv packages they will never get my business.
I do like to watch DVD's, allthough I would be a mite tad pi$$ed off if I had to update those too (aka blue ray etc)......
I have heard about the Plasma vs LCD talk, and that thing where they say plasmas have a limited time life span, and all this new stuff is just well past me...

So what should I do? Any advice will be of help....

[SVR73]

Hey I've got equipment in use today from 1969 including a B & W national panasonic TV and a sansui amplifier and wharfedale speakers

I think just wait. Be patient and wait until at least june 07.
Personally, I would go LCD. Parents have one, sister has three and they so far have worked perfectly.

I find foxtel excellent for certain things but yes I agree, you can't have exactly what you want and lose out at least a couple of your favourite channels whichever package you choose. I have it mainly for nascar and other motorsports like motor gp and boxing but also tv 1 and fox 8 simpsons

Stick with current DVD's
I can tell you this. The best dvd recorder/VHS combo machine to get for those interested is the Panasonic DMR ES35V

it's $448 at JB's
I bought my friend one recently. In built time base corrector for VHS restoration and transfer to DVD

[MeestaNob!]

Originally Posted by xagt_coupe

The biggest thing that pi$$es me off about all this television stuff and new dvd's is that none of it is designed to last anymore.
I have had the same tv for over 10 years now (59cm Sony TV), and would just love to update into somthing bigger, nicer and newer, but I dont want to spend lots, because it's all getting like mobile phones where new models come out every 6 effin months.....

I dont watch tv much as there is stuff all on that is interesting, foxtel and austar are plain rip offs, and until you can choose your own tv packages they will never get my business.
I do like to watch DVD's, allthough I would be a mite tad pi$$ed off if I had to update those too (aka blue ray etc)......
I have heard about the Plasma vs LCD talk, and that thing where they say plasmas have a limited time life span, and all this new stuff is just well past me...

So what should I do? Any advice will be of help....

As with everything, TV choice is fairly subjective, but there is some advice I can give that will be generally correct.
a) Not sure about LCD, but modern plasma's are designed to last 60000 hours before they begin to fade. 55000 if you set your contrast/brightness higher than normal. 60K optimum lifespan / 24 hours (if you watch it 24 hours a day!) / 365 days = 6.8 years lifespan before you should notice any dimming. All things being fair and equal, you'll get 10 years out of a plasma, but chances are you'll wanna get the next big new thing well before this happens.
b) Good DVD players 'upscale' quality DVDs and they look excellent. BlueRay looks brilliant, but it's far too dear in my opinion for the upgrade you get. Well worth waiting to see if 1) the price comes down considerably, 2) the reliability and features of BR/HDDVD players improves, and 3) seeing which format ultimately comes out on top. No BetaMax/VHS wars for THIS little black duck thankyouverymuch!
c) Plasma vs LCD. LCD is higher resolution but that is not really important accept for in the case of true full HD content (BlueRay, theorhetical HD quality on free to air TV, etc). Plasma, 9 times out of 10, will have much better black levels, and I find plasma colour to generally look far more natural. If you watch movies in the dark, get plasma. With caliberation and lots of testing, plasma usually seems a little easier to get the right colour out of. LCD is not a poor option by any means though. LCDs are getting much better at black levels, and some are nearly comparable to plasma, but you will probably pay more than a comparable plasma. Plasma's are far more susceptable to screen burn than LCDs, but it can be easily avoided if you remember to change channel at ad breaks. Old 4:3 shows will leave dark but temporary shadowing on plasmas at the unused left and right extremities, but this fades with a small amount of widescreen viewing. If you're careful, screen burn in its many forms is not a problem, but if you're not able or willing to make the effort then LCD is for you.

[Donny]

Thanks for the info, that helps some. May just get a cheapie tv for now until they decide which way things will ultimatly go. As for the dvd players, I may just get a cheapie junker till the consumer market decides which technology is going to take hold.

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

Will be adding a PS3 into the budget of course... mmmm Gran Turismo HD on a 1080p screen... :

GT HD *sigh* thats enough to make me spend some more money, which will not only send me permanantly to the dog house, but, it then becomes the neighbours dogbox.... !

[MoreHPformyXR6]

With the contast ratio's being mentioned in this thread could some advise me what the lastest Samsung 32 " LCD HD with inbuilt HD tuner has? As my Mum just bought one & I was over there on boxing day watching the cricket & picture & sound are superb.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by russellw

Just so everyone is more knowledgeable let's just go quickly over the technologies involved here as there is a lot of misinformation in the market place at present.

We'll start with what we have lived with since the start of colour television (for us) which is a resolution of 625 lines @ 50Hz and 25 frames per second - NTSC (the US standard) is 525 lines @ 60 Hz and 29.97 fps. As some of the lines are used for tranmission of sync data the actual formats are best referred to as 576i (PAL) and 480' (NTSC) - that is 480x720 and 576x720.

DVD (in PAL format) operates at the same frame rates and resolutions.

Any television made since colour television was introduced is capable of displaying those images in the 4:3 format. It is important to note here that the resolution equivalent of a good analog TV is about 480x640 pixels.

SD digital broadcasts change this by supplying a 576x720 (4:3) image and a 576x1024 (16:9) that is also free from artifacts such as ghosting. All older televisions will still display a better picture with a DSTB box added in the 4:3 format although some of the programming that is filmed using HD equipment with 16:9 native aspect ratio will be downsampled and appear a bit odd. At present analog broadcasts will continue until 2008 anyway.

HDTV is where the water starts to get muddy. There are basically three resolutions available to Australian viewers: 720x576 (576p), 1280x720 (720p) and 1920×1080 (1080i) although there are also 4:3 variations on these. (Please note that I have turned these numbers around for clarity).

A lot of the early HD "ready" TV's sold (and some still on the market) are 852x480 pixels and they don't display even 576p without some upsampling of the image although they can display widescreen DVD fine. This is a bit like selling a BA I6 as "V8 ready".

The next generation were often 1024x768 (the so called XGA in computer terms) or 1024x1024 (WXGA) - these can display 576p but have to upsample 720p and most things look funny on the 1024x1024 units.

Then we started to see units (very common now) with resolutions of 1280x720, 1280x768 and 1366x768 pixels which can all display 720p in native form but which can't display 1080i without upsampling.

Let me digress for a moment into what we are broadcasting for TV these days. The ABC, SBS and Seven are broadcasting 576p while Nine and Ten are broadcasting 720p although these are moving targets as they bring new technologies on stream.

Finally we now have the so called True HD displays which have a native resolution of 1920x1080 and which can therefore display 1080i without any resampling. At present they are of no real benefit for our HDTV broadcasts but they are of benefit for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD content.

The question as to which format will end up the dominant (if either does) remains undecided. Technically the Blu-Ray 24fps frame rate is a better match for cinematic quality images than the 30fps rate of HD-DVD but it's not very noticeable most of the time. Likewise the higher native capacity for single sided discs (25 Gb vs 15 Gb) offers a perceived advantage and the dual layer Blu-Ray disc can support up to 9 hours of encoded content.

In terms of support the group behind Blu-Ray consists of Apple Computer, Dell, Hewlett Packard, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK, 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Pictures and Warner Home Video while the group supporting HD-DVD are Toshiba, NEC, Microsoft and Intel while Warner Bros and Paramount Studios have a foot in each camp.

Finally let us spend a moment talking about how the picture actually looks and how that is relayed in the specifications. Here the terminology used is different between plasma and LCD so we will look at them as such.

Plasma

The two key measures here are brightness and contrast. One of the advantages a plasma has over an LCD is the greater distinction between something that is black and something that isn't - which is known as the contrast ratio. Ignore the grey ratios that some people use as their measure and you will find these are typically in the 3-5,000:1 range. The more the better as long as it is accurate. Brightness is stated in candelas per square metre (cd/m2) and typically will fall in the 1,000-1,500 range. It only really matters if you are in a brightly lit room.

LCD

While some of these will give you the two measures listed above, the numbers will be different. Contrast ratios will typically be in the 1,000-1,500:1 range while brightness specs will range from 400-600 candela. The additional measure added for LCD's is their response rate exactly as it is with your PC monitor. Anything under 8ms black to black is likely to be rubbish within the scope of modern technology but anything over 12ms is likely to see some pixellation on fast moving images.

Finally we'll mention size. Bigger isn't always better despite what you may have been told. The higher native resolution the screen is then the larger it can be for any given viewing area but there are some simple rules of thumb to follow. In general you'll want to allow 3x the actual screen size in viewing distance for a mid range plasma (so a 60" screen requires 180" of distance or about 15' (4.5 m). Higher resolution screens reduce that factor to about 1.5x meaning the same size screen would be viewable at about 8' of distance.

Cheers
Russ

Interesting info - can you or someone else add in what a HD Set-top box will do to the res in these situations.

Personally I run a standard 68cm CRT TV for regular t.v. and then have a 140 inch motorised drop down (from the ceiling cavity) projector screen ($120 bucks new from ebay, 1 year on and still going strong) for movies (generally burnt DVD's from torrents). Projector was a give-away PC data one from my wifes work so resolution is not great and I am looking to upgrade - I am guessing from the info here that going for any projector under 1080i is going to be a waste of time and money?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by merlin

Interesting info - can you or someone else add in what a HD Set-top box will do to the res in these situations.

Personally I run a standard 68cm CRT TV for regular t.v. and then have a 140 inch motorised drop down (from the ceiling cavity) projector screen ($120 bucks new from ebay, 1 year on and still going strong) for movies (generally burnt DVD's from torrents). Projector was a give-away PC data one from my wifes work so resolution is not great and I am looking to upgrade - I am guessing from the info here that going for any projector under 1080i is going to be a waste of time and money?

As mentioned above an HD set top box is capable of outputting signals at 1080i/p but the limitation will always be the capability of the TV, monitor or projector to display the signal provided so the addition of a box to a standard CRT is likely to only provide a minor improvement and only then if it is capable of displaying higher resolutions. It gets a little more complex with projectors as a lot of data projectors are XGA or WXGA capable so while there is some image cropping the actual image quality is improved with the addition of a STB. Again a lot of the early home theatre projectors were only 720p capable and quite a few of the ones on the market now are still only UXGA (1280x720) like the Sony UHVLP60. There are some true HD projectors around like the Sony VPLVW50 but it's over $6k and is only 1080p - the 1080i WS version is over $12k.

Cheers
Russ

[merlin]

Originally Posted by russellw

As mentioned above an HD set top box is capable of outputting signals at 1080i/p but the limitation will always be the capability of the TV, monitor or projector to display the signal provided so the addition of a box to a standard CRT is likely to only provide a minor improvement and only then if it is capable of displaying higher resolutions. It gets a little more complex with projectors as a lot of data projectors are XGA or WXGA capable so while there is some image cropping the actual image quality is improved with the addition of a STB. Again a lot of the early home theatre projectors were only 720p capable and quite a few of the ones on the market now are still only UXGA (1280x720) like the Sony UHVLP60. There are some true HD projectors around like the Sony VPLVW50 but it's over $6k and is only 1080p - the 1080i WS version is over $12k.

Cheers
Russ

Thanks Russ - My budget is $2K max so it looks like either a wait for prices to fall, or go for a lower res projector.

[RAREV8]

RusselW,

That was a concise and pretty accurate breakdown of the technologies- very good reading!

I have been in the industry for several years now and there is a vast amount of conflicting information around at the moment which serves to confuse customers to no end.

We need to bear in mind that Australia was the first country that ran a PAL based TV system rather than NTSC to adopt HDTV....at a time when we couldn't even broadcast the Olympics in widescreen!

HDTV was developed in 1994 by Toshiba in an attempt to "fix" the poorer quality NTSC broadcast quality used in Japan and the U.S.

Certain maufacturers took advantage of the market by inaccurately rating their monitors as HD ready as was earlier mentioned.

I would like to mention that HDMI (high definition multimedia interface) is NOT necessarily better picture quality than component, and in fact, can be worse.

The whole point of HDMI is that it can carry digital video signals and uncompressed multi-channel audio down a single cable rather than separate 3 lead component and digital or descrete audio leads.

You are still limited by the run of cable used with HDMI- if you are using a projector that is more than about 15m from the source, I would reccommend Component as its signal loss over a distance declines slowly rather than dropping out either intermittently or altogether as it is a binary digital signal. You also don't need an audio signal going to the projector!

Original HDMI could only run video and 2 channel audio whereas the latest versions can run video and multi channel audio with a hell of a lot of bandwith to spare.

Even with a HD video signal and 6.1 audio being run, you will be using around 60% of the HDMI capability.

[SVR73]

Poorer quality. I don't know about broadcasting etc but compare an NTSC laserdisc or VHS video (especially those made from 96 to 02 to an equivalent PAL one and you'll find the US one better. How much depends on the age of the PAL equivalent. Especially when played on a Toshiba VW80 8 Head VHS VCR and NTSC 3.58 mhz playback TV.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Russ, it wasn't personal... just clearing up what you said... and my view is that people quote specs a lot, but don't judge with their own eyes, what they think looks good - they can't form an opinion unless they see the spec sheets first. Seen that many times - yes you are right if you meant that it was similiar to VGA in resolution. That's why i said to ignore the spec sheets - at least until people go have a look at it first, then do side-by-side comparison. As for Jaded... well he said he wasn't in the market for one anyway in another thread. BUt even if you're just interested to see it, I recommend going to have a look at the set-up. And for plasma/LCD debate, should be over next yr with Laser TVs as far as I know.

It is remarkebly easy for spec sheets to be misleading- as you said, you need to see them personally to judge...you look at tv's, you dont look at specs.

However, bear in mind that a salesman who has just bought 60 brand "x" plasma for a deal can quite easily set it up to make it look better than the brand "y" one next to it, regardless of the real quality because he needs to move them.....plenty of research is good as well as looking at the same tv's in different stores.

Unlike speakers, TV's are not subjective, they are objective. one person's ear may prefer the sound and tone of a particular speaker but this does not work for visual quality other than brightness preferences.

[MeestaNob!]

Originally Posted by xagt_coupe

Thanks for the info, that helps some. May just get a cheapie tv for now until they decide which way things will ultimatly go. As for the dvd players, I may just get a cheapie junker till the consumer market decides which technology is going to take hold.

It's your choice, it's certainly worth holding out if only to get a feel for what brands/models people are happy with and which have the best feature/quality:price ratio.

That said, I read recently of a person getting the plasma we have VIERA Panasonic Viera 42PV60A (HD) for $2100 (rpp $3400!!!). That's a bargain if ever I heard one. For that price, many could easily afford to change it over again in 2-3 years to something higher res when HD/BR DVD has got a clear winner (be it from a sales or technology point of view).

It's one of the most reliable ones on the market and it has one of the best pictures out there (especially for the price). This + good quality HDMI DVD player FTW*.

*For The Win, non internet nerdy types!

That all said, there is certainly nothing wrong whatsoever with waiting for a while to see how things pan out. Wait another 6 months and this Panny (assuming they still make them) will be about $1500 which is ludicrous. At $2800 we thought we'd bought a bargain. Even less is crazy for 42" of awesome!

One last spanner for your thought process: If you game on your big TV (xbox/playstation/PC). I'd go LCD. Video games (once again, generally), are not all that plasma friendly.

One last thing, future laser TVs wont necessarily be any better than current stuff. They are just capable of producing a higher percentage of the colour range than Plasma or LCD. They wont necessarily be higher resolution or quicker). I have no idea about their image burn/retention resistance (or if they suffer from it at all for that matter).

Sorry to confuse things further. :gren:

[Donny]

Nah, doesn't confuse me at all.
I do play console games, only PS2 currently. I really only want to spend 1500 odd on a tellie, my old tv and vcr are getting very long in the tooth, and my componant sterio has finally blown the amp in it and the rest of it is knackered too.
So basically I will need a complete system, dvd recorder, tv and surround sound system.

I dont really use it all that much to justify spending up big $$. I just want somthing nice and reliable that will last me a decent amount of time (being more than a crappy 5 years only). We have become too dependant as a disposable society, and personally I wanna spend my money on other things more interesting than having to replace tv's and accessories every few years.
Will look at 1500 max for tv, 1000 for sound and 500 to 1000max for dvd recorder. I just don't use it enuff to wanna spend more.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

With the contast ratio's being mentioned in this thread could some advise me what the lastest Samsung 32 " LCD HD with inbuilt HD tuner has? As my Mum just bought one & I was over there on boxing day watching the cricket & picture & sound are superb.

Anyone?

[russellw]

There are two series of the Samsung - the S series and the R series.
The R series has the HD tuner and is a 1366x768 unit.

Cheers
Russ

[SVR73]

The parents are updating to 1920x 1080P sony 46 inch LCD Sony Bravia TV (with inbuilt tuner) and over 1K off retail price
According to sony's site its 8ms, 1500:1 on screen, 7000:1 dynamic)and 450 candela
Then they're going to grab the ES35V as well

Checked toshiba's site as well and their HD DVD with upscaling of regular DVD is only one grand. not bad really
This means the current TV and Panasonic DVD/VHS combo are getting moved into my video shed duty along with the 100 hz TV

Glad it's not my money

[I FluXx I]

Found this. Its very intresting and shows comparisons. The HD DVD looks a stack better

http://www.gamescentral.com/blogs/te...vd-vs-dvd.aspx

[SVR73]

This morning I accidentally found a site about pioneer muse hi vision laserdisc players and movie discs
These were released in early to mid 90's in japan and were 1080P resolution according to the site. So that's HD and Blu ray quality back in 1994 with a new player that came out in 96

of course machines and discs were bloody expensive and were there 1080P TV's available in japan back then?

[blueoval]

Apologies for the thread mine.

I have a PS3, and a samsung 40" LCD which only upscales to 1080i.

I plan to pick up a blu ray movie from blockbuster tonight and try it out.

I have never played blu ray movies on the PS3 yet and was wondering, will I even notice any improvement in picture quality of the blu ray movie even though my tv ISNT 1080P full def, or am I just wasting my time?

[BlackLS]

Originally Posted by SVR73

This morning I accidentally found a site about pioneer muse hi vision laserdisc players and movie discs
These were released in early to mid 90's in japan and were 1080P resolution according to the site. So that's HD and Blu ray quality back in 1994 with a new player that came out in 96

of course machines and discs were bloody expensive and were there 1080P TV's available in japan back then?

HDTV capable TVs were over $10,000 according to wiki.

[vandrsxr6]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Apologies for the thread mine.

I have a PS3, and a samsung 40" LCD which only upscales to 1080i.

I plan to pick up a blu ray movie from blockbuster tonight and try it out.

I have never played blu ray movies on the PS3 yet and was wondering, will I even notice any improvement in picture quality of the blu ray movie even though my tv ISNT 1080P full def, or am I just wasting my time?

Sorry mate you won't tell the difference. Although it will be better than a standard DVD you still wont get the full use of the Dual Layer DVD with a 1080i TV.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by vandrsxr6

Sorry mate you won't tell the difference. Although it will be better than a standard DVD you still wont get the full use of the Dual Layer DVD with a 1080i TV.

So it sounds like I will get no benefit whatsoever unless I upgrade my TV. :
What a bugga. Oh well, unless I strike it rich somewhere, I'll just put up with my regular dvd's.

[Nevermind]

You will notice a big difference, just try it out

You wont get it as good as it could be, but it will look alot better then DVD's

[fourl6]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

is it worth buying a standard definition 42 '' plasma for $1800 anymore . or wont they be compatible with anything .( time frame) ????

how times have changed... just got a 42" panasonic HD with built in HD tuner for $1300...