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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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19-05-2011, 06:41 PM | #31 | ||
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Holden wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for all the money the government was putting in to it
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19-05-2011, 06:46 PM | #32 | |||
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Neither would the Falcon and Terri.
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19-05-2011, 07:21 PM | #33 | ||||
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19-05-2011, 07:56 PM | #34 | |||
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I could just imagine the implications of light skinned aluminium panels - 1) Cops getting into a shoot out, would hide behind the doors, after hanging their spare bullet proof jackets on the door for protection. 2) When you get locked out of the car, you simply use a stanley knife to cut into the door skin, and unlock the car. 3) The car gets a 5 star Ancap rating, except when hail storms are forecast, and then helmets (and protective padding) are required for driver and passengers. |
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19-05-2011, 08:12 PM | #35 | ||
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My 1967 Rover has an aluminum boot and bonnet, so it is not that radical. It is nice to have these sorts of panels light to use.
Would be nice if my Nissan Patrol had an aluminum bonnet, then I wouldn't throw me shoulder out every time I lift it!
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Mr. Brett Johnstone. 2002 Ford Laser 2000 Ford Falcon Wagon Egas 1999 Subaru Imprezza Sportwagon 1998 Holden Suburban 2500 1995 Land Rover Discovery TDI 1994 XG XR6 Longreach 1983 Holden Rodeo 1975 Datsun 120Y wagon 1970 MG Midget 1967 Rover 2000TC Soon: Model T. |
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19-05-2011, 08:20 PM | #36 | ||
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Ah yes, a future with a light weight family sized car utilising modern materials...
We used to imagine back in the early eighties what "cars of the future" would be like. We didn't foresee that a simple base model V6 or straight 6 would have more power than the thumping V8's we all aspired to own, we didn't foresee the amazing fuel consumption figures you could get out of even a big V8... ...but we really didn't expect a family car to keep bloating in weight until the damn things weigh almost 1800kg... |
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19-05-2011, 08:31 PM | #37 | |||
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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19-05-2011, 09:17 PM | #38 | |||
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If they do it the benefits are there. Just look at the Jag XJ and the Audi A8. Both large vehicles but don't have the "average" weight of such behemoths, though they're not what you would call a light weight. Holden is taking advantage of the $$ on offer and are (hopefully) putting them to good use. Ford did the same with the LPG and I4T. Hopefully we're seeing more innovation from these two.
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19-05-2011, 09:19 PM | #39 | ||
The 'Stihl' Man
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Or anywhere even remotely near the market segment of the commodore/falcon.
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19-05-2011, 09:27 PM | #40 | ||
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Makes you wonder just what kind of weight saving can be had when the game isn't all about stiffening the body
for performance improvements or designing the cars to tow horse floats, car trailers and 23 foot caravans... Ecoboost Falcon, lighter shell with 1500 KG towing capacity and 7.5 l/100 km fuel economy just like Ecoboost Mondeo.... |
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19-05-2011, 09:35 PM | #41 | |||
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Yep thats it, I wasn`t saying Ford Aus, but hopefully it would trickle here eventually. Thanks. |
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19-05-2011, 09:53 PM | #42 | |||
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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19-05-2011, 09:57 PM | #43 | |||
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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19-05-2011, 10:32 PM | #44 | |||
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These cars are built to a budget, I cant see a $30-50k car having expensive materials added on the volumes they currently sell. While the commys export programs are greater than a falcon its hardly what you would define as a "world car". Have a look at the cars that employe alternative materials, they are either true "world cars" or are priced accordingly. BTW 7% reduction in FE is a massive claim.
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19-05-2011, 10:51 PM | #45 | |||
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I realise the costs of producing cars with aluminium panels but it wasn't what I was referring to. Ford in the US have used aluminium in cars for years. The Mustang GT has a bonnet made of aluminium as does the F-150. yes they sell more than the local cars here but it isn't the exotic material it used to be. Eventually carbon fibre will start to be used more often too. If Holden can pull it off kudos to them. Even if it is a couple of panels, the boot, roof and or bonnet.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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19-05-2011, 11:19 PM | #46 | |||
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19-05-2011, 11:36 PM | #47 | ||
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Fair enough, but first you say the Falcon is not a competitor then you use two $150k+ cars as an example, there is a reason they can use it and thats because they can charge for it, so price is a pretty large factor.
Your right its nothing new, Ford even back in 2005 were developing Al suspension parts, all of it is really nice until you rationalize the cost of it. CF is even worse, until there is a better/more efficient way to manufacture parts with it it will always remain a costly material. Agreed, if Holden pull it off all the power to them, but its sounds like more of the Caprice PPV to me, although this has a higher chance of happening. And unless they use it predominately structurally the gains wont be massive. I think the Jag's entire body structure is Al isnt it?
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19-05-2011, 11:51 PM | #48 | ||
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outer skins have very little impact on crash worthiness. There are many other issues/concerns that need to be considered when material changes are made to skin panels.
It is a significant change mid cycle for sure when you consider all the development and change that has to happen to pull it off. This of course is something that Holden would have been working on as part of the initial VE platform development though i'm sure. |
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19-05-2011, 11:59 PM | #49 | ||
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Carbon fibre would be my choice instead of aluminium.
It all sounds like lip service to me.. |
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20-05-2011, 12:26 AM | #50 | |||
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The FG got a whole heap of weight saves so that when it came out it would have a minimal weight increase. They managed to keep the weight gain to 14kg, which is much better then AU to BA which was a big increase.
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20-05-2011, 08:06 AM | #51 | ||
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I would think the aluminum would be limited to a bonnet...
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20-05-2011, 08:35 AM | #52 | ||
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Aluminium panels aren't a huge problem (except when you have to have them fixed at the panel beaters) but alloy bodies make it harder for a car to pass crashworthiness.
Not only that, but insurance costs would go through the roof for the previously-mentioned problem with panel beating. The workers really need to know what they're doing as you don't get a second chance with alloy once it's been bent...sometimes a good crinkle that, with steel panels, would mean some beating and heat-shrinking, will simply be binned and replaced. I know that happens now sometimes, but once your car is a few years old, it'll become a problem. If mass-production of carbon fiber can be done cheaply enough, it will be good too...but even less repairable than alloy. There's no simple answers. |
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20-05-2011, 02:04 PM | #53 | ||
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When I read the title of this thread I figured it was an article about the Cruze and someone was making a joke
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