VE Commodore Sportswagon - Page 2

SRTargets · 14-10-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Are you suggesting people buy wagons based on looks over functionality???

Have a look at the falcon wagon, who buys that?

so far from all the regular places I visit related to cars on net, a majority want a good looking wagon. If your going to buy a wagon for its comercial use, might aswell buy a van instead.

I dont see the reason why people cant buy a good looking wagon.

4Vman · 14-10-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRTargets

Have a look at the falcon wagon, who buys that?

so far from all the regular places I visit related to cars on net, a majority want a good looking wagon. If your going to buy a wagon for its comercial use, might aswell buy a van instead.

I dont see the reason why people cant buy a good looking wagon.

Ford have made a healthy living out of supplying Falcon wagons to sales reps and conservative familys for many years.... They tried XR series wagons in the past and nobody bought them... so id say Ford would be reluctant to do a sports wagon given history of sales, and the fact that the Terri turbo and new FPV versions cater nicely.

XR6_190 · 14-10-2007, 03:10 PM

I actually think this gives Ford a good sales oppurtunity. How many companies like Telstra and the like, who use a lot of big station wagons for company cars are going to want a thirsty and small wagon.
Enter Ford, who build the only large station wagon on sale in oz (providing the Orion wagon, if there is one, is the same LWB style). While fleet sales may not be a whole lot, it would be a market ford could now monopolize.

SRTargets · 14-10-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Enter Ford, who build the only large station wagon on sale in oz (providing the Orion wagon, if there is one, is the same LWB style). While fleet sales may not be a whole lot, it would be a market ford could now monopolize.

Actually I would reckon they sell more wagons to fleets rather than privates.

Its the crown vic!

Aeron · 14-10-2007, 04:21 PM

I had a look at it at the Motorshow yesterday and thought it looked great!! I hope they do make a HSV version!

5.4 GT · 14-10-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Terri turbo and new FPV versions cater nicely.

These are too expensive compared to even an SSV wagon or Calais V. Hate to say it but the Holdens would kick them in the performance stakes too, other than being in the wet or up a dirt road, TT and FPV variant with AWD would have the advantage (most people dont try and belt their cars in these conditions though). I doubt Holden are working on an awd version now that they have the Captiva, but imagine an awd SSV!!

5.4 GT · 14-10-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeron

I had a look at it at the Motorshow yesterday and thought it looked great!! I hope they do make a HSV version!

I'll second that.

4Vman · 14-10-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

These are too expensive compared to even an SSV wagon or Calais V. Hate to say it but the Holdens would kick them in the performance stakes too, other than being in the wet or up a dirt road, TT and FPV variant with AWD would have the advantage (most people dont try and belt their cars in these conditions though). I doubt Holden are working on an awd version now that they have the Captiva, but imagine an awd SSV!!

How much performance do you need from a wagon anyway? if its all out performance you want you'd buy a sedan... id take a Turbo Terri over a SSV commodore wagon any day of the week, its no contest, and you get AWD as a bonus..

5.4 GT · 14-10-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

How much performance do you need from a wagon anyway? if its all out performance you want you'd buy a sedan... id take a Turbo Terri over a SSV commodore wagon any day of the week, its no contest, and you get AWD as a bonus..

Haha tell FPV that. Why did they bother making the F6X over the TTG anyway? Obviously market research has shown people want the extra performance.

Come to think of it try telling Audi, BMW and Mercedes that too.

Audi's new RS6 V10 twin turbo wagon is due to be released soon.

4Vman · 14-10-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Haha tell FPV that. Why did they bother making the F6X over the TTG anyway? Obviously market research has shown people want the extra performance.

Aboslutely! but buyers of the FPV Terri will choose it because the terri offers some unique compromises and attributes that cater to allot of extra needs as well as its "sports" attributes, things that a falcon/commodore sports wagon will never compete against.. yet it would compete very well against a com/falcon "sports" wagon in their areas of perceived "strength". IMO a Turbo terri would have both "sports" wagons covered quite comfortably in all areas..

4Vman · 14-10-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Come to think of it try telling Audi, BMW and Mercedes that too.

Audi's new RS6 V10 twin turbo wagon is due to be released soon.

There's wagons, and then there's WAGONS...
The Audi is more like a large hatch that a wagon in size (as we know them in Australia), its built on basically a sedan platform, the Falcon/Commodore wagons are LWB with GENUINE cargo capacity.
The euro wagons are aimed at the "alpine" market where 4WD is a must.. and carry space is important, much like the FPV terri i suspect. The difference is the terri has genuine cargo area too, and is SWB..

5.4 GT · 14-10-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Aboslutely! but buyers of the FPV Terri will choose it because the terri offers some unique compromises and attributes that cater to allot of extra needs as well as its "sports" attributes, things that a falcon/commodore sports wagon will never compete against.. yet it would compete very well against a com/falcon "sports" wagon in their areas of perceived "strength". IMO a Turbo terri would have both "sports" wagons covered quite comfortably in all areas..

Yes true but your going to be paying the extra for it. What i'm getting at is Ford might need a lower priced performance wagon to compete with the SSV. Like maybe bring back the XR series wagons (XR6T powered wagon) or lower/reprice the TTG (maybe take a few features out but make it on par with the SSVs equipment list) so that average joe can afford it and not be forced into an SSV wagon.

4Vman · 14-10-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Yes true but your going to be paying the extra for it. What i'm getting at is Ford might need a lower priced performance wagon to compete with the SSV. Like maybe bring back the XR series wagons (XR6T powered wagon) or lower/reprice the TTG (maybe take a few features out but make it on par with the SSVs equipment list) so that average joe can afford it and not be forced into an SSV wagon.

Maybe we'll see a drop in price for the entry level Turbo Terri?
Can anyone think of why the E series XR6/8 wagons didnt sell?

Auslandau · 14-10-2007, 05:16 PM

Can just picture the heads at Telstra walking in to buy their fleet and saying ..... " We will have a couple of hundred of those SSV V8 wagons. They are thirsty, no storage space, cost a packet over the more conservative options but we dont care about that! They look fully SiKo !"

Dont you think those that make these things do any research on what would sell in numbers or do they just sit around on the computer and talk to those who would like a 'Homer' concept but in reality never be able to afford it?

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XD 351 Ute · 14-10-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe we'll see a drop in price for the entry level Turbo Terri?
Can anyone think of why the E series XR6/8 wagons didnt sell?

Marketing would have been a fair chunk of the problem.
Most people didn't really hear about them at the time as I recall.

It really wouldn't take much for them to screw together something half decent, then with a bit of nous they might get some out there.

They've got the basics sitting right in front of them to do a sporty wagon already, it's not like they'd have to fund the development of a new car.
The utes already have the suspension & chassis dynamics sorted......

Ed

**Polyal** · 14-10-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Can anyone think of why the E series XR6/8 wagons didnt sell?

Because anyone who is half serious about buying a performance car wouldn't get a wagon, not in Australia anyway (yes the germans have some amazing wagons).

The holden wagon looks mint. Maybe their are enough people out there who want a little more space to store stuff but dont want a SUV.

Either way the private sector will love it IMO. Add to that the potential for exports and their laughing.

MAGPIE · 14-10-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Like maybe bring back the XR series wagons (XR6T powered wagon)

I'd be the first in line to buy a XR6T wagon (in Orion form not this abomination they have now) & no leaf springs thanks.

4Vman · 14-10-2007, 05:48 PM

Of course there's always the chance that Holden have conceded that the Terri turbo is that damn good that its created its own market in Australia.., i mean i know a few die hard holden family's that absolutely love the Turbo terri and its set-up, but would never own one because its a Ford... and hate the craptiva.. so maybe Holden will capture sales this way..?

CSV_LS1 · 14-10-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

There's wagons, and then there's WAGONS...
The Audi is more like a large hatch that a wagon in size (as we know them in Australia), its built on basically a sedan platform, the Falcon/Commodore wagons are LWB with GENUINE cargo capacity.
The euro wagons are aimed at the "alpine" market where 4WD is a must.. and carry space is important, much like the FPV terri i suspect. The difference is the terri has genuine cargo area too, and is SWB..

The VE Wagon is based on the SWB Commodore platform.

**Polyal** · 14-10-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Of course there's always the chance that Holden have conceded that the Terri turbo is that damn good that its created its own market in Australia.., i mean i know a few die hard holden family's that absolutely love the Turbo terri and its set-up, but would never own one because its a Ford... and hate the craptiva.. so maybe Holden will capture sales this way..?

Well I dont think there is a GM product anywhere that comes close to the TT.

Interesting point about the wheelbase. With the death of the fairlane then will ford continue their wagons on LWB, or go a similar route with SWB, or kill it all bother and have a lower ride height and priced Territory?

Auslandau · 14-10-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well I dont think there is a GM product anywhere that comes close to the TT.

Interesting point about the wheelbase. With the death of the fairlane then will ford continue their wagons on LWB, or go a similar route with SWB, or kill it all bother and have a lower ride height and priced Territory?

No they wont kill it. The Orion wagon has already been completed.

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4Vman · 14-10-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

The VE Wagon is based on the SWB Commodore platform.

Really? ok, that probably changes the landscape a bit.

**Polyal** · 14-10-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

No they wont kill it. The Orion wagon has already been completed.

Oh thats right, sorry I had a brain fart. Still long term it will be interesting. The Orion wagon will be a test of the market, if it works Ford will make a bit off them as I understand that not to much $$$ is being put in.

Mick K. · 14-10-2007, 07:54 PM

3 pages of posts on a Ford Forum about a Holden wagon that is yet to be released!

: I think this is another example of Holden having a much better PR / Marketing team than Ford. They have managed to get all media types excited about a wagon that won't be available for months a lot better than Ford have with releases of F6X, Mondeo and Cobra in the past weeks. They seem to "own" Wheels magazine and popular online publications such as goauto.com.au.

Notice all advertising pics of Commodores is of Calias V or SS-V models. Read a magazine review of Commodores and they will say the 4sp auto and Alloytech 175 combination is poor, but the 6sp and 6.0 V8 are great.

What Ford seems to be missing is that "hero" model that journos and the public can rave about that then filters down into sales of the base model.

Ford might come up with a wagon with more load carrying room and easier loading than the Commodore, but if it looks like a car that a public servant or Telstra worker would drive, will it be the kind of car that people are proud to have in their garage?

Holden are a lot more cashed up than Ford with their larger marketshare, export program and even their rebadged Daewoos selling well. They can afford to make a wagon equivalent of every Commodore model even if they don't break even on them. Ford on the other hand will probably have to stick with just a base model Orion wagon (just a refresh of BA) and have Territory be the load carrying vehicle that appeals to families and private buyers.

FWIW, the Commodore wagon looks good - a lot like the 300C wagon - to me.

MK

Sloth · 14-10-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

No they wont kill it. The Orion wagon has already been completed.

Is that fact? Rumours have all stated that the AU/BA/BF wagon would carry on and there would be no Orion wagon, either that or be dropped from the range.

Auslandau · 14-10-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloth

Is that fact? Rumours have all stated that the AU/BA/BF wagon would carry on and there would be no Orion wagon, either that or be dropped from the range.

Nope. Tis done it is.

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BlackLS · 14-10-2007, 08:39 PM

I love it.

BionicGT · 14-10-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick K.

I think this is another example of Holden having a much better PR / Marketing team than Ford. They have managed to get all media types excited about a wagon that won't be available for months a lot better than Ford have with releases of F6X, Mondeo and Cobra in the past weeks. They seem to "own" Wheels magazine and popular online publications such as goauto.com.au.

`
Agree with your comment on Wheels magazine in their pocket. Wheels were obsessed with the new VE Commodore.

You could also see the "payback" for Holden spending large sums on advertising with the TV stations. When Ch 7 covered the opening of the Sydney Motor Show, they showed the new Holden wagon, Ute and Maloo, a few Euro vehicles but nothing Ford had released.

Auslandau · 14-10-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick K.

3 pages of posts on a Ford Forum about a Holden wagon that is yet to be released!

: I think this is another example of Holden having a much better PR / Marketing team than Ford. They have managed to get all media types excited about a wagon that won't be available for months a lot better than Ford have with releases of F6X, Mondeo and Cobra in the past weeks. They seem to "own" Wheels magazine and popular online publications such as goauto.com.au.

Notice all advertising pics of Commodores is of Calias V or SS-V models. Read a magazine review of Commodores and they will say the 4sp auto and Alloytech 175 combination is poor, but the 6sp and 6.0 V8 are great.

What Ford seems to be missing is that "hero" model that journos and the public can rave about that then filters down into sales of the base model.

Ford might come up with a wagon with more load carrying room and easier loading than the Commodore, but if it looks like a car that a public servant or Telstra worker would drive, will it be the kind of car that people are proud to have in their garage?

Holden are a lot more cashed up than Ford with their larger marketshare, export program and even their rebadged Daewoos selling well. They can afford to make a wagon equivalent of every Commodore model even if they don't break even on them. Ford on the other hand will probably have to stick with just a base model Orion wagon (just a refresh of BA) and have Territory be the load carrying vehicle that appeals to families and private buyers.

FWIW, the Commodore wagon looks good - a lot like the 300C wagon - to me.

MK

OMG .... only 3 pages on the release of a new model! THis is a 'car' Forum and makes very good DISCUSSION ..... which is what this is all about.

How about the 7100 + threads and over 80 topics in the ORION thread. Thats not bad for some interest shown before a pic has even been leaked. When it comes down to it, it will be a matter who is making the most money at the end of the day and I think FORD Aust isnt doing to bad. Next year I am sure you will be sick of hearing about the new releases up there sleeves and so will the red team.

Hero cars? Cobra ....didnt they sell out in a week? Yeah I know ..... it should of had 450KW with no radio, heater or airconditioner and sell for $150,000. FPV arent doing too shabby with an old platform against new models from the opposition.

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Sloth · 14-10-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Hero cars? Cobra ....didnt they sell out in a week? Yeah I know ..... it should of had 450KW with no radio, heater or airconditioner and sell for $150,000. FPV arent doing too shabby with an old platform against new models from the opposition.

I agree, half arsed or not, sure is a good way of shifting cars, same with the 40 Anniversary GT too.

Interesting what you say about Orion too. It better look good.