Ford Capped Service - Worthless

[ltd]

Originally Posted by dimka100

LOL dude actually they do ... they have all the equipment required to fully plug into your Ford/Holden ECU and read whatever faults you might have off it of it. Remember these people tune your Ford/Holden ECUs in the first place … they also got Dyno machines … extensive emissions testing equipment and noise testing as well … some will have laser guides alignment setup and workbenches for building small custom parts that may be required for certain work. Now I’m not saying that all this is required for servicing ones car, but please don’t go about saying that Ford service centre have better equipment … they don’t, full stop!

As for synthetic oil, it has nothing to do with your car being turbo or not LOL … synthetic oil is very very highly recommended for engines with variable valve timing setups (e.g. I6) … it makes sure that all the added complicated engine valve terrain can operate efficiently. Actually all new Japanese cars and just about every EU car specifies for synthetic oil, Ford should as well but they are simply trying to keep the profits in the service higher … (cost of synthetic VS non is about $40 in a retail shop !!! for ford it would be a lot less due to bulk buying)

Right, so the tuner they plug in to do a tune is the same one from the ford factory? Now you're getting desperate. After market tuners are limited to what they can adjust on the PCM, only recently have they been able to reprogram the ZF 6 speed. All ancilliary equipment such as climate control fault codes will not register on non ford scan tools. After market tunes and any other PCM modifying devices will see your warranty voided.

Writing LOL at the end of a comment makes you look like a fool.

As for oil, it has everything to do with being turbo or not. The oil is used to lubricate the turbo and as such is subjected to extremely high temperatures from high EGT's of the turbine and casing. The oil to lubricate the bearing gets subjected to these extreme temperatures, mechanical and chemical loads, which are never seen on an NA engine. A non synthetic oil would simply burn and evaporate under such loads upon entering the turbo, and chemically break down sludging up the galleries and causing failure. The synthetic oil over mineral oil is needed primarily to lubricate the turbo, the rest of the engine lubricated by such oil is secondary bonus to the need for a synthetic.

Tell me where on an NA I6 this will happen (and don't say the cam phasers, they're not extreme high temp).
That's why it's not the manufacturers specification, so don't expect it in the service. I don't denounce peoples desire to run fully synthetic in their engines that's fine, but it is NOT necessary according to manufacturer specifications.
Those unable to even research the basic composition of oil but swear they have to run full synthetic on their NA car have KW envy, and spend an awful lot of money trying to make a stock car go faster with supercheap auto craptastic garbage like K&N and other useless trinkets, unaware that K&N filter oil shortens the life of HEGO sensors; all in the vague hope for an extra 2kw.

Like I said to you before, if you want to run synthetic, then ask for it, don't expect it in the service when it's not listed in the manufacturers service book.

Just for you. LOL.

[cobramania]

I use Alto Ford Artarmon to service my FPV, they are expensive but do a good job. I don't use my BF Cobra a lot, but my last service cost $950, & was done at 10k not 15k, as I was going on a trip from Newcastle to Melbourne, then to Brisbane & back to Newcastle. On arrival they told me they'd be doing a complete oil flush & putting synthetic oil in as per factory recommendations, they also asked & I agreed, for them to do a coolant flush & replace, & a brake fluid flush & replace, they also found a vacuum hose leak under the throttle body, (probably cause I didn't put the hose back on correctly, after I'd taken the plenum off to clean around the intake trumpets), so they took the throttle body off, & cleaned it too. All in all pretty expensive for what's really only a minor service, but it got me everywhere I wanted safely & without any issues.
Sure I possibly could've got it done cheaper elsewhere, but would they have found & fixed the vacuum leak & cleaned the throttle body, would they have offered to change the coolant & brake fluid, would they have changed to synthetic oil without me telling them to, considering it's not specified to do so in the handbook service, (though synthetic oil is specified to be used in the FPV V8 engine)? The free roadside assist was good piece of mind too. I guess if you want a Suzuki Charade priced service, don't buy a Falcon.

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by ltd

As for oil, it has everything to do with being turbo or not. The oil is used to lubricate the turbo and as such is subjected to extremely high temperatures from high EGT's of the turbine and casing. The oil to lubricate the bearing gets subjected to these extreme temperatures, mechanical and chemical loads, which are never seen on an NA engine. A non synthetic oil would simply burn and evaporate under such loads upon entering the turbo, and chemically break down sludging up the galleries and causing failure. The synthetic oil over mineral oil is needed primarily to lubricate the turbo, the rest of the engine lubricated by such oil is secondary bonus to the need for a synthetic.

Tell me where on an NA I6 this will happen (and don't say the cam phasers, they're not extreme high temp).
That's why it's not the manufacturers specification, so don't expect it in the service.

I can't say for the FG & I can't say for the general Ford Falcon, but the handbook oil specs. for BF FPV's states, 0W-40 synthetic for the BOSS V8, & 15W-40 Mineral oil for the F6 Turbo. So if the F6 can run on mineral oil, I'm pretty sure there's no need for full synthetic in a N/A I6 FG.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Did you get your free 12 months roadside assist? I don't think your local garage will give you that either.

Last time I bought a new car I got 3 years free roadside assist. That was not Ford though.

[FreddyDUZ747]

And to think I get warning(s)for off topic posts......

We are talking capped price servicing here arent we,where does the warranty thing come into it??????

Dont like the price,as the owner of your car the beauty is you dont have to go their and can source a cheaper alternative.

This service costings should be looked at before buying the vehicle.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by ltd

As for oil, it has everything to do with being turbo or not. The oil is used to lubricate the turbo and as such is subjected to extremely high temperatures from high EGT's of the turbine and casing. The oil to lubricate the bearing gets subjected to these extreme temperatures, mechanical and chemical loads, which are never seen on an NA engine. A non synthetic oil would simply burn and evaporate under such loads upon entering the turbo, and chemically break down sludging up the galleries and causing failure. The synthetic oil over mineral oil is needed primarily to lubricate the turbo, the rest of the engine lubricated by such oil is secondary bonus to the need for a synthetic.

You couldnt be further of the mark,how many cars out their run basic Ford dealer service oil and have NO issues at all.Yep,I6 or I6T run Mineral oil and the only reason the turbos have failures(oil wise)is because of the dodgy line/filter setup period.The screen not being in the service schedule doesnt help either.

More research needed before posting statemants like that

[dimka100]

Mate I used to run a twin turbo motor using mineral oil in a Japanese import, and believe me I would rather run a non variable valve timed TURBO engine on mineral oil any day VS a variable valved timed N/A … if you think it’s all about the turbo then good luck to you! I will fill up my car with whatever I like and you can do the same to yours

Oh and BTW ford does not want to make servicing expensive for all the fleet cars out there, so they specify the absolute minimum to keep the service costs competitive, that however does not mean its optimal to your engine by any stretch of the imagination ….

Now I don’t have the service book in front of me (it’s in the car) but the oil specs are 5w - 30w from what I can recall.

Originally Posted by ltd

Right, so the tuner they plug in to do a tune is the same one from the ford factory? Now you're getting desperate. After market tuners are limited to what they can adjust on the PCM, only recently have they been able to reprogram the ZF 6 speed. All ancilliary equipment such as climate control fault codes will not register on non ford scan tools. After market tunes and any other PCM modifying devices will see your warranty voided.

Writing LOL at the end of a comment makes you look like a fool.

As for oil, it has everything to do with being turbo or not. The oil is used to lubricate the turbo and as such is subjected to extremely high temperatures from high EGT's of the turbine and casing. The oil to lubricate the bearing gets subjected to these extreme temperatures, mechanical and chemical loads, which are never seen on an NA engine. A non synthetic oil would simply burn and evaporate under such loads upon entering the turbo, and chemically break down sludging up the galleries and causing failure. The synthetic oil over mineral oil is needed primarily to lubricate the turbo, the rest of the engine lubricated by such oil is secondary bonus to the need for a synthetic.

Tell me where on an NA I6 this will happen (and don't say the cam phasers, they're not extreme high temp).
That's why it's not the manufacturers specification, so don't expect it in the service. I don't denounce peoples desire to run fully synthetic in their engines that's fine, but it is NOT necessary according to manufacturer specifications.
Those unable to even research the basic composition of oil but swear they have to run full synthetic on their NA car have KW envy, and spend an awful lot of money trying to make a stock car go faster with supercheap auto craptastic garbage like K&N and other useless trinkets, unaware that K&N filter oil shortens the life of HEGO sensors; all in the vague hope for an extra 2kw.

Like I said to you before, if you want to run synthetic, then ask for it, don't expect it in the service when it's not listed in the manufacturers service book.

Just for you. LOL.

[Joe5619]

All these "capped services" from all manufactures are just marketing tools!! Nothing more & nothing less

[AMGC63]

Lol Go premium Euro and expect high 3 to 4 digit $ervice costs... And that's without any major parts or issues, I know first hand.

[BigAlsFGXR6]

Seems like alot of people here are getting precious!

Well here is my opinion of servicing with Ford or other.

It All Depends on WHERE YOU GO!, please let me explain.

The BEST service i have ever experienced, Mitsubishi Campbelltown (when i owned a Mirage).
The do what you ask them, call you when something needs to be done, wash your car, vacuume it, valet it to you when you pick it up, all for the same price as what i pay now my my FG NA 6, around 250ish.
Worth it? Hell yeah!

Best OTHER service, UltraTune MacArthure Square (Campbelltown), the guy there was the most happiest guy EVAR!!! lol. Now this dude loved his job, and made sure everything was done correctly and ran over the whole procedure with me so i could understand exactly what happend. Cheaper - YES.
Worth it - YES.

Worst Dealer service - Hyundai - Blacktown, Didnt give a stuff, had attitude, my car was in for a warranty replacement of Fuel tank, and Dash (WTF- and at the same time) ... Stuffed me around for 3 days, still with the attittude.
And even though it cost me $0. Woth it - NOPE

Worst OTHER - UltraTune Fairfeild, Because of my past experience with UltraTune, i figured these guys would be = as good, Took my wifes fiesta there several times, they where never greatfull or happy, just another customer feel. And on my last visit, it was a 45km major, found out the never changed my air filter but charged me anyway!
Needless to say, Worth it - NOPE!

Getting back on topic - All of these people charged me around the same for the service, BUT, i think you could justify the price paid, when you can walk away feeling 100% saticfied. If for WHATEVER reason your not 100% happy.

Then i completly agree with the OP, stick to your guns mate, and stay with your mechanic.. Simple

Sorry for the bad spelling, im in a rush! ;)

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Last time I bought a new car I got 3 years free roadside assist. That was not Ford though.

Yeah, on FG's for example Ford gives you 1 year free roadside assist. Then every time you service back at ford (apart from the 3000 obviously) they give you another year. This includes models that date back to 2007.

[2011G6E]

You don't have to go to Ford...we took our G6E to Ford down in Rocky for the first free service and the 15,000 service, but from now on it'll be going to UltraTune out in Emerald, less than an hours drive away instead of nearly two hours to Rocky. Last I heard the Ford dealer at Emerald had shut anyway.

When we had the 100 series Landcruiser, Toyota wanted nearly $450 for the "basic" service at the 10,000km mark in between the "major" services every 20,000km. So every 10,000km we were getting it serviced to keep the warrantee. The major service for the 4.2TD engine by the logbook? $1000...which included, apparently, all wheel bearings removed, cleaned, and repacked, and valve clearances checked and adjusted every 20,000km. Shocked, I told the guy at Toyota that prior to the 'Cruiser we had owned a Falcon and then a Commodore, and they hadn't ever needed the valves looked at...to which he scoffed and amazingly and puzzlingly said "Yeah but that's a Falcon and a Commodore for ya"...
We started to use Ultratune, and the price of a service dropped to a much more reasonable $300. The 4.2Td takes over 12 liters of oil, and a filter costs $30+, so we were happy. They too were puzzled about the "check the valve clearances" in the logbook, and said unless the engine was doing something odd, there was no need to look, and unless we were hardcore off roaders, there was no need, as the logbook claimed, to spend hours pulling down, cleaning out, and repacking all the wheel bearings.

Things have changed since they altered things to allow you to go pretty much anywhere and still keep your factory warrantee...

[Anchor]

2011G6E - Correct, Emerald has shut down. Ford in Rocky is it for you guys.

[AMGC63]

To people who get their car serviced elsewhere during the warranty period what happens if Ford issue a software upgrade or DSB that needs to be actioned on your model? You'll never get it unless you get your car serviced by the dealer.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

To people who get their car serviced elsewhere during the warranty period what happens if Ford issue a software upgrade or DSB that needs to be actioned on your model? You'll never get it unless you get your car serviced by the dealer.

I asked this question of a performance workshop who done my previous XR6T and they said every time they get a newish car in for a service they ring the corresponding dealer and ask if there has been any upgrades of late for that vehicle. If so, they then organise to get that vehicle over to the dealer to perform the upgrade under warranty.

But hey, thats 1 workshop....

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Anchor

But that has nothing to do with capped price servicing.

what it has to do is taking your vehicle any where near a fraud stealer for any kind of work... no thanks... beyond buttering up for sucked in deals to let some absolute muppet near my car..... ktbf.....

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

what it has to do is taking your vehicle any where near a fraud stealer for any kind of work... no thanks... beyond buttering up for sucked in deals to let some absolute muppet near my car..... ktbf.....

Seems like you had an incident involving your local Ford Dealer. Unlucky.

Luckily for us, you're not a minority. And capped price servicing doesn't go back to '73. Hope this helps.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by dimka100

let’s see oil about $40 but they buy in bulk so probably about $20 … Oil filter about $20 but they probably pay $15 max … the apprentice mechanic will get $20 - $25 per hour and … rest is profit …

you left out the overheads...

power, water, land tax, rates, plant and equipment, insurance, admin, etc.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Anchor

I asked this question of a performance workshop who done my previous XR6T and they said every time they get a newish car in for a service they ring the corresponding dealer and ask if there has been any upgrades of late for that vehicle. If so, they then organise to get that vehicle over to the dealer to perform the upgrade under warranty.

But hey, thats 1 workshop....

That's great but who covers the cost of the dealers time and effort? Not to mention moving the car back and forth. You can see why some dealers go out of their way for some customers and not others.
Personally I think it's a pretty poor way to treat a dealer only using them for warranty work and freebees.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

That's great but who covers the cost of the dealers time and effort? Not to mention moving the car back and forth. You can see why some dealers go out of their way for some customers and not others.
Personally I think it's a pretty poor way to treat a dealer only using them for warranty work and freebees.

Why can't all customers have your mindset..

As for the updates, it's warranty. Ford pay us.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Lol Go premium Euro and expect high 3 to 4 digit $ervice costs... And that's without any major parts or issues, I know first hand.

That's often the case but like anything if you shop around...
Last 3 services on my S Class Merc have all been done by the biggest M Benz dealer here and all around $600 plus G.S.T. inclusive of 8 litres of Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil which I reckon isn't too bad in view of the complexity / cost of the vehicle.

$255 for a capped first service for a NA Falcon doesn't sound too bad either. I found your recent post about them finding 4 faults that you wern't aware of that they fixed under warranty an interesting story. What were they and what are you driving ?

[RatLord]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Yes mate, unlike many people here who just post, I actually purchased a new BF and now I own a new FG, I have always purchased new Australian cars in the past (Mitsubishis Magna, then the 380) and never had a single issue with them and the service was well priced and good, the quality of the build was also far higher than the Falcons …

Now there are only two Australian players left on the market and for some reason I chose the Ford over the Holden, with the BF I had less issues/complaints than the FG, and now I’m starting to think it will be going euro as there is absolutely nothing compelling left in buying Australian made fords …

Yeah this day and age it's all about the quality at mass manufacturing level! I was told for instance that the Ford Focus will start being produced in Thailand as before it was being made in Belgium. I thought "yay" i'd be getting one before production moves to Thailand, but was suprised to find that production will be even better in Thailand as they are making a whole new factory with all the newest tech.

It makes sense to me now

[RatLord]

Originally Posted by dimka100

LOL dude actually they do ... they have all the equipment required to fully plug into your Ford/Holden ECU and read whatever faults you might have off it of it. Remember these people tune your Ford/Holden ECUs in the first place … they also got Dyno machines … extensive emissions testing equipment and noise testing as well … some will have laser guides alignment setup and workbenches for building small custom parts that may be required for certain work. Now I’m not saying that all this is required for servicing ones car, but please don’t go about saying that Ford service centre have better equipment … they don’t, full stop!

As for synthetic oil, it has nothing to do with your car being turbo or not LOL … synthetic oil is very very highly recommended for engines with variable valve timing setups (e.g. I6) … it makes sure that all the added complicated engine valve terrain can operate efficiently. Actually all new Japanese cars and just about every EU car specifies for synthetic oil, Ford should as well but they are simply trying to keep the profits in the service higher … (cost of synthetic VS non is about $40 in a retail shop !!! for ford it would be a lot less due to bulk buying)

+1 they do have all the gear as he has stated

[sudszy]

I can sympathise with the OP, basically its an oil change, fluids level check and inspection. If a RWC inspection can be had for $75 on a thirty year old car where they look hard for rust etc, how much should an underbody/safety check on a new car cost?

As for the Ford expertise and equipment, afaik, the equipment doesnt even get plugged in for the basic service?

Upservicing, the first service on our territory, got a call spruiking a $300 engine tune, apart from checking everything is at it shouldbe, Ive got no idea what they could tune, neither did it seem did the girl on the phone, the messg being relayed 2nd hand by another woman at my end too, the relayed messg being no!

[charles_wif_xf]

Obviously there are more than a few people that have been burnt by the service (or lack thereof) offered at Ford dealers. There are also questions being raised about the value of the capped price services (for example, my FG XR6T is coming up on 45,000km and is $450). Ford dealers have overheads like any business and they try to recoup their costs. What the contention is, is how much of that $450 is cream? People need to be able to see value for their coin and a lot don't see value when it comes to Ford dealer servicing costs. For example, I can go to BPR in Campbellfield here in Melbourne and for $550, they do everything in the service manual as per the B service and do a whole lot more to the car. They pull out and clean pretty much every sensor in the engine bay, flush the engine, run upper engine cleaner through it, tighten all the turbo plumbing and a whole lot more.

On the flipside however, should any issues arise that are a warranty problem, the car has to go back to the dealer anyway. And as others have mentioned, the independants don't have access to the WDS system and any TSB's and PCM calibration updates.

Now, AMGC63 has spoken wisely. There are dealers out there that reward customer loyalty and they go out of their way for such customers. It can be argued 'til the cows come home whether that is a good business model the dealers should be employing but that's beside the point.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Personally I think it's a pretty poor way to treat a dealer only using them for warranty work and freebees.

Why? the dealer gets payed for warranty work and what freebies do they offer?


For the record, i've had my cars serviced at a friends workshop for many many years, however he is now more expensive than the Ford dealer, so now it goes to the dealer, who are excellent (Centre Ford Perth).

[ltd]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

You couldnt be further of the mark,how many cars out their run basic Ford dealer service oil and have NO issues at all.Yep,I6 or I6T run Mineral oil and the only reason the turbos have failures(oil wise)is because of the dodgy line/filter setup period.The screen not being in the service schedule doesnt help either.

More research needed before posting statemants like that

Right, so even though the FG turbo motors have oil specs as full synthetic in the owners manual, even though ford dealers advise running full synthetic in turbo motors for service, and even though the normal FG recommends mineral oil; you're convinced it's all just to do with a design error based on supposition and innuendo, and a conspiracy from Ford, the people that actually built the motor?
Take your own advice mate.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Mate I used to run a twin turbo motor using mineral oil in a Japanese import, and believe me I would rather run a non variable valve timed TURBO engine on mineral oil any day VS a variable valved timed N/A … if you think it’s all about the turbo then good luck to you! I will fill up my car with whatever I like and you can do the same to yours

Oh and BTW ford does not want to make servicing expensive for all the fleet cars out there, so they specify the absolute minimum to keep the service costs competitive, that however does not mean its optimal to your engine by any stretch of the imagination ….

Now I don’t have the service book in front of me (it’s in the car) but the oil specs are 5w - 30w from what I can recall.

Based on the above you have just answered your own question in your original post about not putting synthetic oil in your capped price service. You're adament it's not warranted based on your twin turbo, so why complain about it?

[Franco Cozzo]

I actually need to take my WS Fiesta back to Ford to get the latest firmware update for the ECU, I have an early build one which has an issue with fuel consumption apparently (even though its only doing 6.5L/100km), I was supposed to do that like 2 years ago, lol.

When I was working at Honda, you'd pay your $250 for a minor service, but that included the "free" coffee in the lounge, you could watch your car get worked on, wonder around the show room talking to staff, or they'd drive you out to the shopping centre nd pick you up for no extra charge.

They'd also wash and vacuum out your car, when your car is ready they would drive it out to you.

Unfortunately a lot of the work in the workshop was dodgy.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

To people who get their car serviced elsewhere during the warranty period what happens if Ford issue a software upgrade or DSB that needs to be actioned on your model? You'll never get it unless you get your car serviced by the dealer.

Wrong
Well depends how friendly you are with your dealer. My warranty is technically void, but its been honoured.
If theres a software upgrade it wont happen anyway, well in my case.