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14-06-2016, 01:25 PM | #31 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
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Who do you think leaks wages staff redundancy info or pay cuts to media? The Union! Our last "restructure" saw at least 50 salary staff get booted. The only media it got was in the Financial Review, share prices promptly jumped. The share marked loves a restructure. |
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14-06-2016, 04:07 PM | #32 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
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It's all relative, I have to pay ~$2/litre for petrol.
Don't even ask about food prices, I pay $5 for a bottle of milk! The cost of living in WA is completely out of whack with the rest of Australia. No I don't work on the mines, just a hard working broadacre farmer.
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www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet 2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter. XC Cobra #181. 1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison. |
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14-06-2016, 04:20 PM | #33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
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but I pay nearly $5 for a bottle of Dariy farmers milk and petrol at my local servo was $1.38 for E10 when I was driving home last night (haven't looked today) and I'm in western sydney
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14-06-2016, 05:16 PM | #34 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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A friend of mine works quite high up at rio Tinto here in Brisbane, a big part of her job is going round mine sites all round the world and deciding how many people get the chop when conditions aren't favourable.
People like to say it's always the little guy that gets the chop first, but given what's she's told me, it's not always the case. If she can't see a benefit in a role then it's gone, regardless of position. |
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14-06-2016, 05:53 PM | #35 | ||
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
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14-06-2016, 05:58 PM | #36 | ||
I'm still alive
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Swan Hill, VIC
Posts: 632
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Im sure there's a subtle joke in that comment but I'm afraid I'm not following you lol
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14-06-2016, 08:24 PM | #37 | ||
Perth WA
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: WA
Posts: 567
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Collie is regional WA town, no FIFO.
Most of the workers live in town 5km's from the mines, others travel from outlying towns 30-60km's away.
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14-06-2016, 09:28 PM | #38 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,334
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Quote:
When we were going through our last negotiations we were basically told not to expect much because they have no money. This was the same year the CEO got a 34% pay rise. A few other executives got a big pay rises too. We stood our ground and fought for it, the local newspaper wrote up an article on their website and the comments section was similar to these threads. Bagging out the workers for being greedy even though these people commenting had no idea about the company or the industry. A 43% pay cut is harsh but better than no job at all. I hope this company is cutting cost on all levels and not just looking for a quick and easy cut so they can pay upper management all their extra bonuses this year. I have no problem with upper management earning good money and getting pay rises, but it has to go both ways. If these guys are now only getting $75,000 a year for 12 hour shift work, that is nothing special. Isn't the average Australian income like $70,000 |
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14-06-2016, 09:52 PM | #39 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 54
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I was born and grew up done my trade etc in collie but left town 15 years ago because the town was dying then,and there are several reasons for whats happened. 1always been over paid and under worked.2 now owned by Indians who only ever wanted to buy the mine to secure coal reserves to allow them to own power stations in india .3collie coal is highly combustable and not really suited for export .4 mines only ten minutes from town. 5 many at the mines expect the world but wont do the hard yards to get it. 6 the quality and availability (good coal) is now finished
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15-06-2016, 10:33 AM | #40 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Townsville North Queensland
Posts: 547
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Isn't the pay cut because they're not longer on a rotational roster? I'm pretty sure they've lost 43% because they've gone back to Monday to Friday
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15-06-2016, 11:41 AM | #41 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
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Quote:
I remember the teacher Federation sprouting all over the media that teachers got a pay cut, but the reality was just that they got a lower than CPI pay rise, and the union argued that was effectively a pay cut. Hard to sympathise as I've had a pay cut 4 year running now... |
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15-06-2016, 03:34 PM | #42 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,658
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My source tells me it's highly unlikely there will be anything close to a 43% pay cut. It's a case of threaten with a big cut to scare them into accepting a medium cut, more likely to be around 20%.
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15-06-2016, 04:18 PM | #43 | ||
The 'Stihl' Man
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,584
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Our blokes dropped 2hrs per shift just recently, that was worth ~$20k to them apparently.
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15-06-2016, 07:01 PM | #44 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,434
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A rare risk with any EA. If the decision is upheld it pretty much guarantees a yes vote I would think.
I think I'd drop $25k+ if my EA was terminated. |
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15-06-2016, 07:55 PM | #45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Love the people laughing at the wealthy miners getting it in the neck...those rich ****** deserve it, what are they complaining about, they're crying crocodile tears, they choose to work in that job, blah blah blah...
Remember one little fact... This was an official decision by the Fair Work system...which means it is now a precedent. While you're feeling smug, you'd better hope your employer doesn't decide to save some money by going to the commission, crying poor, cancelling your workplace agreement, and reducing your wages... |
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15-06-2016, 08:47 PM | #46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Oh, and if you want to know how to judge if a business is fair or unfair towards workers, then just look and see if it has those things called "shareholders"...because quite usually, if it does, one thing and one thing alone matters: return to shareholders. And that's about it.
For example, a while ago the Commonwealth Bank said it was going to sack about a thousand staff to cut costs...and immediately, their share price sharply went up. As did the bonus for the head honcho. That just shows how immoral the whole thing has become. I saw once someone said that it's funny how, for workers, a century has gone by and things have come full circle. A hundred years ago, workers were expendable drones with little to no rights...then the union movement started and got rights like pay, sick leave, holidays, and all the other rights we enjoy. Then came a time of workers having a lot of power and being able to set the standards. Now it's gone right back the other way again...workers have little rights, unions have no power, and the "Fair Work" commission sides with bosses nearly all the time to allow them to do whatever they like to workers pay and conditions. And this is a "better" way to run a country...? |
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16-06-2016, 10:01 AM | #47 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Townsville North Queensland
Posts: 547
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I'm not defending the pay cut but mines are closing all over Australia so I think it's a little more than Fair Work siding with bosses.
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20-06-2016, 10:44 AM | #48 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
Example. I lived in Karratha in WA in 2002 working in the Army as a advanced medic and often on patrol throughout the Pilbara region (it is a surveillance unit). During patrols I was working in very tough conditions in up to 50 degree heat with limited water supply. I did all this for an income of <$60K, I had all the skills and more of an industrial paramedic. The medics from the iron ore mines were earning near on $100k more than me for doing less clinical work, with less training and sitting in an air-conditioned office most of the day. Why, apparently their job was dangerous, spent time away from their family and they lived in a remote area. I can guarantee the rate of injury/death in the army far exceeds the mining industry, I operated in far more remote areas and I spent far more time away from my family. Because of the pays the mining and construction in the area were giving out prices for everything rocketed out of control. Petrol was $1.60-$1.70 from memory, food was expensive and my rent for a 4x2 house was $1500/week. Due to the money grab that was going on as everyone wanted a piece of the boom, the ones that suffered were the ones not getting the money. Meanwhile all the miners and construction workers getting the big buck bought up Harley's, Ford F350 4x4 with $60k of mods and boats. Then from the door of their jacked up F350 towing a massive boat they complained about the cost of fuel. The same thing has happened here in Gladstone, houses were built at crazy prices as everyone wanted a piece of the boom and rent went through the roof. Want an example of the effect of the boom here, have a look at the size of the Harley dealership here. Now the down turn has hit, construction has ceased because it is no longer financially viable and as a result the vacancy rate of those houses is high, rents are down and people are defaulting on loans. Unemployment is high, crime goes up, health deteriorates etc. But now it is the governments fault that the boom is over. I would be very interested in what these poor coal miners in Collie (which is not a remote area) were earning then and now. The reality is that 43% is probably just a rationalisation from ridiculous pay to something closer to what they are actually worth.
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20-06-2016, 11:07 AM | #49 | ||
I'm still alive
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Swan Hill, VIC
Posts: 632
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Anyone know how this affects smaller mines in other states? Eg. Pooncarie and perhaps Ouyen.
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20-06-2016, 12:31 PM | #50 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,303
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Quote:
As for injury-related death rates: http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/...-2010-2014.pdf MINING Total deaths 2010: 5 Deaths per 100,000 2010: 2.7 Total deaths 2011: 6 Deaths per 100,000 2011: 2.7 Total deaths 2012: 8 Deaths per 100,000 2012: 3.0 Total deaths 2013: 8 Deaths per 100,000 2013: 3.0 Total deaths 2014: 10 Deaths per 100,000 2014: 4.0 DEFENCE Total deaths 2010: 1 Deaths per 100,000 2010: 3.4 Total deaths 2011: 3 Deaths per 100,000 2011: 9.7 Total deaths 2012: 1 Deaths per 100,000 2012: 3.1 Total deaths 2013: 1 Deaths per 100,000 2013: 3.1 Total deaths 2014: 0 Deaths per 100,000 2014: 0 Finding results for suicides is difficult though. Both industries are fairly **** for suicides, mental health, family breakdown... |
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20-06-2016, 01:24 PM | #51 | ||
Adapt or perish...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dip!@#$
Posts: 7,954
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Just to chuck in my sob story...
I went 4 years without a pay rise but had more lumped on me and had to learn more systems than the previous support officer (and had created new systems in that time), meanwhile rent, fuel, food, utilities went up and up and up. It was only 3 months ago I finally got a promotion, raise and had also got a bonus. Now I'm comfortable and have almost met my career goal I set out to myself nearly 13 years ago. I wouldn't know what to do with the wage miners were getting and I struggle to comprehend how their wage "is not enough". FWIW the "average" wage of the country in reality is much lower than stated.
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20-06-2016, 01:45 PM | #52 | ||||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
Work related deaths don't paint the full picture, serious injury need to be considered as well. While the death rate in the Defence may not be as high you need to remember that it is lower in some segments than others. In defence the rate of serious injury is quite high with many injuries resulting in the loss of employment, a simple slipped disc in the back can be career ending. Defence also has a shorter career span due to many factors including injury rates, social difficulties, mental health problems etc, very few soldiers remain for a long term career so it is not a lifetime as you seem to assume. I would venture to say that defence is a shorter career on average than mining. Also in mining they are normally in trades and skills that are transferable to other sectors such as manufacturing, industry, agriculture etc. Defence roles tend to be more defence specific with less opportunity for transfer of those skills to non defence sectors. I am a good example of this as 6 years in infantry gave me very little as there is not much call for tank killers in the civilian world. Even 7 years as an advanced army medic did not mean I was qualified to be a paramedic in the civilian world, it was the 3 years of study after the army that did. I think doing a comparison of sector wide against sector wide does not really tell the story as some jobs in each sector are much safer than others. When you define it down to the particular job roles thing become interesting. A good example is what is the incident of both death and serious injury in industrial paramedics and emergency paramedic staff. I am not sure what it is for industrial paramedics but I do know it is not higher than emergency paramedics as a study a few years ago proved that the most dangerous profession in Australia in terms of serious injury and death is the emergency paramedic. In a rate per capita of employees paramedics were far higher than mining, transport, police, fire services and defence etc. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...es-police.html Yet an industrial paramedic of lower qualification than an emergency paramedic, with lesser responsibility and with lower work related risks gets paid more than his emergency paramedic equivalent. That is a little snapshot to illustrate that due to the mining boom trades and professions attracted pay rates that were far and above what similar employees got outside the mining sector, a rationalisation had to happen. Quote:
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Last edited by geckoGT; 20-06-2016 at 01:59 PM. |
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20-06-2016, 02:51 PM | #53 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 114
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Reports of a death at WA mine over night.
Miners earn every cent they get. |
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20-06-2016, 03:13 PM | #54 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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No disrespect intended and my condolences to his family, friends and colleagues but by that reasoning trades and professions that have a higher fatality rate should be paid more, which is not the case. Just because a trade or profession suffers a fatality does not mean they earn or are worth every cent they get, it is a lot more complex than that.
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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20-06-2016, 04:14 PM | #55 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,303
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What you're saying above stresses that the defence force needs improved training for civilian-compatible qualifications and experience. Quote:
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1) Those at the top selling the company (same old workers on-site, new boss to make profits for), then mismanagement from the top which affects those at the bottom. 2) The market conditions changing adversely - which would be part supply/demand, part mismanagement from the top. Those people who think the regular everyday workers are the ones being greedy truly have no idea of the amount of $$$ those at the very top play with. |
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20-06-2016, 05:22 PM | #56 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,070
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No, the average is the average. A better measure is the median, because that gives an idea of where the majority lie, unlike the average, which is skewed by the handful of people making gazillions. And yes, the median is well below the average.
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20-06-2016, 05:25 PM | #57 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,070
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Were it the case, the so-called gender pay gap would be a chasm... because men are 20x more likely to die on the job than women. One inequality the feminazis are surprisingly quiet on....
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20-06-2016, 05:27 PM | #58 | |||||||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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I understand what you're saying about instability and the like, and yes when such a situation arises like that at Griffin Coal it doesn't appear to be sustainable at face value for the workers to maintain their current pay (and possibly conditions). Quote:
I use that example as a large corporation is largely in the same situation but on a much larger scale. A company is not a inanimate object with a large bucket of gold, it is actually a group of people with their own financial security invested in it. That is not to say I think company executives have nothing to answer for or that greed in the upper levels of company management is not an issue, I just don't believe it is the only issue. I found it rather interesting that so many here have made reference to share holders and from comments made they appear so evil. I am a share holder in Rio Tinto and BHP, with my money that I worked hard for and it is my future financial security. Shareholders are not big player mining tycoons, they are also the little people trying to give themselves a stable financial future after working very hard for what they have. If one of the companies I owned shares in was in a market downturn producing less profit (decreased dividends) and did not mange that with reduction in production costs I would want to know why. If they maintained staffing levels and pay rates that were not supported by the market conditions, that would have to be one of many elements that would cause me to lose faith in the company in terms of my financial stability. That may lead myself and other shareholders to want to pull our money out of the company and take it elsewhere. Result of that could ultimately mean collapse of the company, lots of people lose money including the little people and the workers are out of a job.
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20-06-2016, 05:32 PM | #59 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Interesting point. Without opening a can of worms in my role females are paid the same and supposedly have the same job description. Having said that I have seen times a dual female crew have requested the assistance of a male crew to assist lifting a heavy patient. On many occasions I have been involved in this situation the female crew members eagerly pick up the kits, monitor and bags and leave the males to carry the bulk of the weight of the patient. The incidence of lifting related injuries in the ambulance service is higher in males than females, I wonder why.
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20-06-2016, 05:36 PM | #60 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
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You can skew it however you like, if the commodity prices on a world scale have dropped and mines a no longer viable as they no longer generate the $$$ they once did, they obviously are not in a position to continue to pay large wages, keep on staff and offer huge amounts of overtime.
If you earn less than you did 5 years ago, can the local pub / car dealer / travel agent now come knocking on your door and demand you keep spending money in their establishment? Or do you have to cut back? What is it with people these days? The age of entitlement... |
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