Ford is Looking Back - XR8

[mytgxl]

Originally Posted by mick457

oh its got a bulge woopy do, a bulge and a v8 doesnt make you buy a car
its gotta be differnt ever wonder why so many xr6 owners are putting the boss buldge on the xr6 coz its cheaper then buying a 8 and then suddenly iit looks like one
does that mean a xr6 has road presence, and from an outsider looking in the ss stands out for me much more then the xr8

Are you are wrong again! a bulge & a great sounding V8 did make me go & buy that car! It looks better than every run of the mill dunnydoor! Unless you lashed out & brought a HSV for something that looks different!

[nstg8a]

i bought my xr8 because i liked it, could care less about 'road presence' or any of that other stuff.
and fwiw, my final choice was between the fg, and a ve ss, the fg looks better, goes better, and has a much much better interior. the only thing the ve did better was sound, it sounded pretty good for a stocker.
for me, it was an easy choice in the end. doesnt mean its the right answer for anyone else.

[mick457]

i dont need to back it up look at the car if you cant see it then your dumber then i thought

[nstg8a]

whats with all the holden fans on here lately? perhaps you should try ls1.com if your so against fords?

[imugli]

If the XR6 is now the fleet pack hero (de-valuing the XR brand) and the XR6 Turbo seems to be the hero of the the fleet pack heroes, would that not effectively make an XR8 a V8 fleet pack hero? Thus wouldn't a 'new' XR8 only serve to de-value the XR8 Label?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, hasn't the XR brand been too damaged to waste it on a 300kw monster?

Holden NEVER let the SS become a fleet hack and they reap the rewards for it now. Ford continued to let the XR brand be devalued to the point it is now and they too reap what they have sowed.

IMO they've done the right thing moving what was effectively the XR8, now GS, into the FPV stable. It gives them the best of both worlds - the ability to market Falcon as a fuel economy leader of the pack, while giving FPV the muscle game to themselves and the GS the cache that an XR8 just wouldn't have these days IMO.

[Dr Smith]

Does the GS outsell past XR8 sales? Problem is most here probably expected a XR8 replacement, I know I did eventually. I didn't expect the FPV GS to be used as a replacement for the XR8 simply because the price difference is too high. Where did Ford Oz expect XR8 buyers to go, back to XR6T, traditional V8 buyers don't really do that, or pay substantially more for a GS which isn't available in every Ford dealer. Or do they go to Holden, save a packet over a GS and say a cheap Holden V8 is better then a more expensive FPV option.

And then there is the media slagging, if a Coyote powered XR8 was 0.3 sec 0-100 slower then a XR6T and yet 0.5sec faster then an VE SS it would still be labelled a failure as past XR8's were. In the case of the FG XR8 it was sufficiently better then an SS and yet it never came out properly in roadtests? It maintained a very unfair perception/reputation.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by prydey

holden don't have any other performance option. xr8 would sell much better if xr6t didn't exist. it does exist and is probably the biggest reason for the xr8's demise.

I agree. Plus Ford now have the issue of the FPV GS(S/C Coyote) not being as quick as the XR6T either. What sought of performance would we see from the 5.0 N/A?

I know we're talking tenths of a second to 100, but marketing wise it makes a difference. Ford tried for years to market XR8 as the top of the range Falcon, people didn't want it, the XR6T was always better. Kilowatts don't sell a care, performance write-ups and popular opinion does.

[mytgxl]

Remember back in the 80s with the XE falcon I think, The last V8 falcon! well that lasted along time didnt it! lol, Aussies love their V8s so I can`t see them letting go of them completely.

[DFB FGXR6]

[QUOTE=mick457]For Holden, though, V8-powered models are a crucial part of the Commodore range, accounting for about one in four sales and helping the brand appeal to private buyers.

This 1 in 4 Commodore sales are V8 and helping private sales dosnt take into account all of the non-private V8 powered (marked & un-marked) police cars that holden seem to sell, skewing that 1 in 4 number. Take out the V8 fleet sales and the numbers would probably look similar to the XR8 in its last few years on sale.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

holden don't have any other performance option.

Holden don't need any other performance option, they listened to
what the market wanted and just provided the right product.

I'm not going to blame the I-6 turbo, XR6T buyers are different to XR8 buyers,
those that couldn't get the V8 they wanted now either buy FPV or go off to the dark side...
Ford have to decide whether it want to provide a V8 for its brand or leave FPV with that duty.
IMO, they offer a great V8 through FPV so offering an XR8 may be seen as just a duplicate..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

For those of us that remember the 80’s why does this sound like déjà vu all over again?
There’s a ready market for a simple V8 option across all Falcon models, although I understand that Euro 5 makes it expensive.
Yet I see here a continuance of their strategy to slowly castrate the Falcon range, until Ford buyers are practically begging to be sold some FWD Taurus based POS.
By segregating out FPV as the purveyor of ridiculously over-priced performance variants, they hope to carve out a niche that can continue to supply extensively modified (AWD?) variants whilst the rest of us are stuck choosing between a Mondeo or bog-standard Faurus.

Heck, let's just kill off the 4.0 I-6 and replace it with a 4.0 litre Version of the Coyote V8.
That way you'd have a 250 Kw 430 nm XR8 in place of the XR6, access to a G8 and a G8E.
On the other side of the coin, the fuel economy seekers and fleets could be offered an EcoLPI
version of the V8 or Ecoboost 2.0....

Game, set and match....now I await my big fat cheque from Ford for curing all their product ills.

F-I-G-J-A-M.. (Sarcasm is a dangerous tool on AFF, but at least it will make some smile)

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Heck, let's just kill off the 4.0 I-6 and replace it with a 4.0 litre Version of the Coyote V8.
That way you'd have a 250 Kw 430 nm XR8 in place of the XR6, access to a G8 and a G8E.
On the other side of the coin, the fuel economy seekers and fleets could be offered an EcoLPI
version of the V8 or Ecoboost 2.0....

Game, set and match....now I await my big fat cheque from Ford for curing all their product ills.

F-I-G-J-A-M.. (Sarcasm is a dangerous tool on AFF, but at least it will make some smile)

You made me smile with that,

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The XR8 sales figures probably looked very niche, even in 2010, but with current Falcon sales, that niche is probably looking pretty nice to have right now.

Problem is they have damaged that market with this neither confirm or deny nonsense that has gone on too long. Even if they got the car out tomorrow it would be a hard sell. For a start it would have to match the discounted prices of the SS and SS-V and I can't see how they would make that work. Even if they did, all they would probably do is cannibalise Prodrives market and get them to have a dummy spit and possibly walk away from FPV.

I love the XR8. I've owned one and think they are a great brand, but Ford just screwed around with this one too much and lost the opportunity. Ford management marginalised the V8 Falcon with their actions over the past few years and I think it is just to late to turn that around now. It is like so much Ford Australia does, another lost opportunity.

I think your probably right with this. The more they f around with it humming and haaing about it the less chance it will ever have of seeing the light of day. Even if they decided to do it today it would probably still take 6-12 months to get it on the road, which would be too late.

I doubt wether Graziano would do it anyway, he was sent here to slowly shut up shop, not introduce new models. EB4 was already too far done to stop it, but he probably would have if he could have.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden don't need any other performance option, they listened to
what the market wanted and just provided the right product.

I'm not going to blame the I-6 turbo, XR6T buyers are different to XR8 buyers,
those that couldn't get the V8 they wanted now either buy FPV or go off to the dark side...
Ford have to decide whether it want to provide a V8 for its brand or leave FPV with that duty.
IMO, they offer a great V8 through FPV so offering an XR8 may be seen as just a duplicate..

rubbish. holden's v8's have never been better by a big enough margin to justify a customer jumping ship. most of the performance reputation comes from the aftermarket, and the ease at which big numbers can be had from the LS engines. stock v stock, both cars were pretty similar products. 0-100 and 1/4 mile times are largely for school kids and pub bragging rights. i don't know anyone that holds their foot flat for 400m on a public road, and if you do, then quite frankly you are a moron. 90% of them will never see a race track. most of the people that critisize the product were never going to buy one anyway.

if there wasn't a 6t on offer, v8 sales would have been higher. no question.

holden offered the same product that ford did for many years and yet they gave the public what they wanted and ford didn't??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

holden offered the same product that ford did for many years and yet they gave the public what they wanted and ford didn't??

Obviously not, where are Ford's V8 buyers?

Holden still sells 11,000 V8s a year while Ford's V8 buyers called it a day, all except the diehards that buy FPV.

[prydey]

maybe ford fans aren't really v8 buyers?

as a percentage of total sales, how do the 6T sales compare to holden v8 sales?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

coz you can't get the V8 note out of a 6T. that is the reason i brought mine over a turbo and a few other things, so what if the turbo is faster blah blah it will never be a V8 and i'm happy with my 10L/100km while cruising but you dont buy a V8 coz you are worried about fuel

If you cared about exhaust note and nothing else, why didn't you spend $2000 on an EB XR8? Rather than probably around the high $40K mark you would have paid for the FG.

Obviously you don't buy a V8 for fuel economy, that wasn't my point, why would you pay the same or more for something thats slower, uses more fuel, handles worse and in some states will cost more for rego? When you could have something faster, handles better and uses less fuel?


I don't mean this as a personal attack, this is what I personally think.

The issue was probably that the I6T made their V8s look crap.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

maybe ford fans aren't really v8 buyers?

as a percentage of total sales, how do the 6T sales compare to holden v8 sales?

2011 I-6T sales:
XR6T 1,034
G6ET 545
XR6T Ute 729

FPV I-6T 361

So that's 2,669......

IIRC there was also
XR8 11
XR8 Ute 1
FPV S/C V8 1,228.

* Oh, the good news last year was that FPVs sales came back up to 2009 level thanks to S/C V8.

[prydey]

i'm always amused when people talk about performance and handling, as though these cars will be driven 10/10ths for a fair portion of their life. the fact is, over 90% of them will never see a race track, and if you drive like that on the road, you are a tool.

the gap in performance, in real world street terms is minimal. average joe would hardly notice. same goes for handling. journo's carry on about the weight over the front wheels. its the only reason others mention it. they read it in a magazine so it must be true.

if you buy a 6T over a v8 because it is 0.5 sec quicker to 100, then you probably weren't really a v8 fan to begin with.

car buying rarely involves logic anyway.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

2011 I-6T sales:
XR6T 1,034
G6ET 545
XR6T Ute 729

FPV I-6T 361

So that's 2,669......

IIRC there was also
XR8 11
XR8 Ute 1
FPV S/C V8 1,228.

so about 25% of commodores are performance models, and about 20% of falcons are performance models.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm always amused when people talk about performance and handling, as though these cars will be driven 10/10ths for a fair portion of their life. the fact is, over 90% of them will never see a race track, and if you drive like that on the road, you are a tool.

the gap in performance, in real world street terms is minimal. average joe would hardly notice. same goes for handling. journo's carry on about the weight over the front wheels. its the only reason others mention it. they read it in a magazine so it must be true.

if you buy a 6T over a v8 because it is 0.5 sec quicker to 100, then you probably weren't really a v8 fan to begin with.

car buying rarely involves logic anyway.

Especially when it is an "I just want one" or a "Gotta have" acquisition.

A few people I know are in clubs that cater for V8 Fords and Holdens who organize track days.
Willowbank Raceway also has new groupings for V8 cars to cover SS and XR8s as well as HSVs and FPVs.

Different to new buyers I know but who honestly buys a V8 to drive it like a six cylinder,
most give their car a squirt regularly otherwise why would you buy it, acceleration is intoxicating.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

so about 25% of commodores are performance models, and about 20% of falcons are performance models.

Not quite,
The combined sales of performance Falcon and Ute sales last year was 3,909
The combined sales of Falcon and Ute sales last year was 25,348

Therefore the percentage is around 15.4%.....

20% would be over 5,000
25% would be 0ver 6,300 sales...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Different to new buyers I know but who honestly buys a V8 to drive it like a six cylinder,
most give their car a squirt regularly otherwise why would you buy it, acceleration is intoxicating.

absolutely, and every v8 that ford has produced in the last 10 years or more has been more than capable of offering decent acceleration. all i'm suggesting is rarely will you have your foot flat from 0-100 or for 400 metres unless you are being a tool.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

absolutely, and every v8 that ford has produced in the last 10 years or more has been more than capable of offering decent acceleration. all i'm suggesting is rarely will you have your foot flat from 0-100 or for 400 metres unless you are being a tool.

For sure but there's another side to that, the 5.4 used to have a nasty torque hole that felt weird to a lot of owners.
If you tried to drive of smoothly, you eiter stumble a bit or howl the wheels when applying more throttle..
Strange I know but I think that kind of dissuaded buyers from buying a successive XR8...
I enjoyed my short time in a BF but I know of others that went off and bought SS which I felt was retrograde.

[jpd80]

In any case, I seriously doubt Ford will revisit XR8, not now that the series 2 FG GS has been given its nose..

If you want and XR8, go buy an FPV GS:

[nstg8a]

the way i look at it, i dont care if a 6t is quicker, or a clubby is quicker, or a barina is cheaper to run.
if all you care about is whats faster then your always gonna be disapointed, because theres always going to be something quicker on the road.

i just did a 1600km drive in 24 hours in my fg, it handled it without a sweat, it included some bloody rough roads, and some higher than legal speeds trying to make up time, and it loved it.
people should care less about what others buy and just enjoy what they want to drive...
i like my v8, some dont, some prefer a round badge to an oval one, if we all agreed what was the best we would all be driving the same thing, and how boring would that be.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by prydey

if you buy a 6T over a v8 because it is 0.5 sec quicker to 100, then you probably weren't really a v8 fan to begin with.

car buying rarely involves logic anyway.

I don't think people do what you've suggested above. The XR6T is such a nicer car to drive in EVERY way. The power delivery throughout the gears is just fantastic and comes in so early in the rev range, the 5.4l weighed down the front end, didn't feel like a performance engine and used more fuel.

I think logic is exactly the reason XR6T was so much popular. Choosing the XR8 over either XR6T or SS to me defies logic.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by martyk54

I don't think people do what you've suggested above. The XR6T is such a nicer car to drive in EVERY way. The power delivery throughout the gears is just fantastic and comes in so early in the rev range, the 5.4l weighed down the front end, didn't feel like a performance engine and used more fuel.

I think logic is exactly the reason XR6T was so much popular. Choosing the XR8 over either XR6T or SS to me defies logic.

what suits you.. doesnt suit me.. or the old bag across the road up the street..

btw.. six does not sound nor feel like eight.....

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

what suits you.. doesnt suit me.. or the old bag across the road up the street..

btw.. six does not sound nor feel like eight.....

I understand this... as I understand why certain people buy Harley Davidson motorcycles.

BTW, the 5.4l is the only V8 I've owned, if this is what a V8 is supposed to 'feel like'... no thanks.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by martyk54

I understand this... as I understand why certain people buy Harley Davidson motorcycles.

BTW, the 5.4l is the only V8 I've owned, if this is what a V8 is supposed to 'feel like'... no thanks.

you are a champion.. i want to kiss your feet...