More insanity, swimming pools

[S3SR]

technically you should have more chance drowning in the bathtub and backyard river than a swimming pool

honestly it only comes down to lack of supervision, flame me all you like, every 23 of those deaths where were the parents? (could talk for days about where are the parents) im not one to rub salt into the wounds but when we pay for other idiots thats a different story..... we dont have a bleeding heart for those in cars that speed and kill everyone but themselves now do we?

pool owners should be made to learn CPR, "do the five", and maybe a once off inspection every 10yrs or so, rather than give the qld government more money

[pottsy44]

Originally Posted by flappist

Strangely, of the 23 children drowned only 23 of them drowned in pools with fences.

Of these 23 pools that were fenced, how many were adequately fenced? Answer me this. I bet 90+% of these fences were not to the Standard.

Ultimately, a fence will not stop a very determined youngster. However, it will deter the majority of them from getting anywhere near the pools edge and elminate the possibility of a drowning.

As stated previously here, owner's need to be proactive and make sure they maintain the fence and educate their children of the dangers (most are probably to you though). But most importantly don't do stupid things like leave the GATE OPEN or NOT HAVE A FENCE AT ALL.

Further, I just moved from a local Council (a large western sydney Council). The amount of people that would call and ask if their pool (usually the crappy inflatable things from kmart or off Ebay) requires a fence was astounding. Do these people not read or hear on the news of kids drowning in swimming pools. There is a reason why they are called "child resistant barriers."

It seems that people need to comprehend what is going on here and that is we are trying to SAVE LIVES. On the same note, i do agree that a $300 inspection fee is excessive, however, a fee is still applicable is such a circumstance (i believe $50 to be resonable. On the previso that the fence is adequate, if a re-inspection is required, an additional $50 fee should be applicable).

Thanks for your time.

[pottsy44]

Originally Posted by StAndArdAU

In WA it is law to have a fence around any body of water taht is more than 30cm deep. this includes swimming pools (both temporary and permanent), fish ponds, water features etc.

All correct (in NSW too).

Yet there is no fences around those lakes they put in the middle of new housing estates, nor is there any on most houses whose backyards open directly onto canals....... i dont get it.

Nor do you require a fence is you are on a waterfront property. The reasoning is that you can't fence a large body of water, so it would be unreasonable to fence the pool aswell. Also, if the pool was fenced, the child would go into the open water instead anyway.

On canals, i disagree, what kid would want to go into a canal?

Swimming pools are designed to keep kids out upto an age of approximately 4-5. What kind of under 5 year old would be able to get to a lake unsupervised?

i do believe tho, unless the laws have changed again, if your pool has walls taller than 1.3m it does not require a fence as long as it has a removable ladder, and is not closer than 1.3m to any otehr object including boundary fences, trees, bbq etc.

Not sure on this one. However, i recently went to a swimming pool inspection at woolloomooloo, where the pool was located on the first level and was built to two boundarys (both streets). As the external wall was >3m to the pool coping it did not require fencing on these sides.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by TXR

2 years ago a 5 year old from my sons kinder drowned in the bath tub. From reports, there was just a small amount of water in that tub. As you say, it doesn't take much at all.

Yeah...a fellow from my old man's work (he retired last year though) had a picnic at a national park. A group of adults were enjoying drinks and eating food and wondered where their daughter had got to.

They found her face down in a tiny pool of water. Dead.

You can't put a fence around a puddle, but you can keep an eye on your kids, even if it means you can't enjoy your drinks. It's a sacrifice you make as a parent to ensure your child's safety.

[seduced_xr]

this is insane. if they put this into WA theres no way we would pay $300 for them to look at our fence. but theyre more then welcome to look at it anytime they please

[fiery]

Originally Posted by pottsy44

Swimming pools are designed to keep kids out upto an age of approximately 4-5. What kind of under 5 year old would be able to get to a lake unsupervised?

Not so long ago here in QLD a child drowned in a dam. The child disappeared while mum and dad were apparently putting the shopping from the car to the house.
From what I have been told the dam had been empty only a week or so prior to this happening (but don't know if that is true).

Drownings can happen in a blink of an eye and it is not always a parents or adults inadequate supervising.
This I do know first hand.

[thefargo]

The year that compulsory fencing was introduced into south australia saw 8 drownings. 3 were in backyard swimming pools, 5 were in the ocean. I have yet to hear of the plans to fence the australian coastline.
The tax on rainwater tanks was mooted as not taxing the actual fact that you have 'caught' your own water falling on 'your' house, but more the idea that you have stopped that particular amount of water entering the natural waterways. Which I would assume would be collected by the government in a dam type construction.

[Captain Stubing]

This hasn't been made law, yet. It's one of the proposals put forward to prevent child drownings.

I don't think it will be enacted....

[pottsy44]

Originally Posted by fiery

Not so long ago here in QLD a child drowned in a dam. The child disappeared while mum and dad were apparently putting the shopping from the car to the house.
From what I have been told the dam had been empty only a week or so prior to this happening (but don't know if that is true).

Drownings can happen in a blink of an eye and it is not always a parents or adults inadequate supervising.
This I do know first hand.

yes im aware of all this as you can tell from my post.

yes it is a flaw in the system. however, what system isnt flawed?

yes some children will not perform to the norm.

but as you agree (?), we got to do the best we can to stop (minimise) the damage/loss.

[fiery]

Originally Posted by pottsy44

yes im aware of all this as you can tell from my post.

yes it is a flaw in the system. however, what system isnt flawed?

yes some children will not perform to the norm.

but as you agree (?), we got to do the best we can to stop (minimise) the damage/loss.

Yes I do agree with what you posted but I also replied basically to all that said about parents or adult lack of supervision. Until it has happened to you, you seriously do not understand how quick it can happen (I am not talking about fenced pools in particular either).

I also agree that everything needs to be done to ensure kids are safe but fencing is not the only solution.

Teaching kids to swim from as young as possible would be close to helping solve the problem, if only the swimming lessons were affordable by all. I know some will say the cost shouldn't be the consideration but unfortunately it is majority of the time with lots of people.

Not every place can be fenced (fortunately pools can be) and sometimes kids are just super quick and take advantage of an opportunity so what is the answer other than teaching them to swim, float etc so as not to panic in the water. Which is good in theory if they haven't hit their heads going in.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by pottsy44

It seems that people need to comprehend what is going on here and that is we are trying to SAVE LIVES.

No, this government is hunting for another revenue stream. Simple. If they were concerned about it, they would do it on cost recovery at best...

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by GTP006

No, this government is hunting for another revenue stream. Simple. If they were concerned about it, they would do it on cost recovery at best...

Yeah I agree.

If they were serious about stopping drownings they would introduce free learn to swim classes from toddlers to the age of 10. Of course that doesnt have the same financial benefit as random annual pool inspections at $300 a pop!

[flappist]

It is interesting how times change.
What I was in primary school swimming lessons were free and mandatory.
Every kid got a free little bottle of milk every day.
We all played organised cricket or football every day before school, lunch time and after school in bare feet and no hats.
Well all had a free dental check up every year at school.
Biscuits, lollies and prepacked lunch food was banned outright.
Coming first in something whether it be an exam, a foot race or team captain was something that was rewarded and aspired to.

No we seem to spend every waking minute trying to make sure NOTHING can happen to anyone so they will be safe until of course SOMETHING happens and the have no idea what to do at all.

[XR6-VCT-2000]

This is the age of 'bubble wrap your kids' so nothing can happen. Kids just need to be taught some common sence again these days like we were when we were young (at a certian age, otherwise watch your kids !!).
It's seems these days the go is to avoid the reason for the problem, and instead find a way to tax or fine the situation. What is this world coming to !, I'm sick of all this political bull$ these days, it realy does amaze me.

[XR6TCraig]

Funnily enough I am having an interesting discussion in the 'had a prang, need some advice' thread on a subject not too far removed from the very point you are making. Being wrapped in cotton wool rather than left to our own devices, duty of care, etc,etc, rather than an individual taking responsibility for there actions.

I believe that this attitude is why we are over governed and over taxed. pollies making stupid laws that encroach on our liberites somewhat, so that they can protect us from ourselves.

Another observation. Is it just me, or do people under the age of 27 ( Gen Y) see the world differently to the rest of us?

[BFZ Wagon]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Another observation. Is it just me, or do people under the age of 27 ( Gen Y) see the world differently to the rest of us?

It's not just you mate. I've noticed this too. I see the young people around these days and wonder if they're from the same planet as me. Strange behaviour, totally carefree and their 'couldn't give a crap' attitude.
Sometimes it feels like a big spaceship on it's way home dumped a heap of crazies and kept going.

When will we get a stupidity tax and an Air breathing Tax?

I'd never have a pool these days. I object to needing a fence. Especially on a property a million miles away from anyone else 'just in case' some kid wanders in!
I'm thankful that my life is a brat free, oops sorry.. kid free zone. ;)

I'm off to prepare my flame retardant suit :P

[woodsy109]

Originally Posted by pottsy44

Of these 23 pools that were fenced, how many were adequately fenced? Answer me this. I bet 90+% of these fences were not to the Standard.

Thats crap! I know that one of the recent drownings, the kid had moved a plastic table over to climb over the fence. Nothing to do with below standard fencing. A mate of mine also recently told me a story about a kid who near drowned while her parents were in the pool with her. She had taken off her floaties and just gone under. Luckily she was revived.

Sometimes things just happen.

[StAndArdAU]

and its reasons like this that the missus and i have started introducing our 3 month old daughter to the water. she comes in for a swim everytime we do.

As soon as she is a little older, around 6 months, we are enrolling her for swimming lessons.

but i wouldnt dream of leaving her to swim unsupervised at ANY age.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by burnz

i can see this catching on in other state's..

Try it in NSW, please try.

[asusdragon]

I have a read a few of the posts but no all so dont flame me if i repeat something, But anyway i sell pool fencing over here in WA, for one of the large companies. But for a pool fence to be compliant it must be min 1200 off the ground and min 1200 off in a arch from any toeholds/footholds which the normal pool owner will not pick but i have too. There all sorts of stupid things that the council will pick up that even know how stupid has to be looked at.
Anyway what to stop a child from sliding your outdoor chair up to the fence and jumping over!! As i say to alot of clients "its a 30second window to catch them in the act" so parent supervision is the key. however it not usually the pool owner childen who drown (coz they have usually had swimming lesson) its usually other people kids who get into your backyard or something.
I also know the WA government does charge for an inspector to come out every 3 years i think to check the pool fence (though you get charged every year) but will bet you that dont even come that often.

[OLDFORDNUT]

friends had a big scare last xmas, they were in pool with daughter walking around edge when she fell in,took less than ten seconds to reach her but she just sank to the bottom without even a ripple ,no more than 20 seconds passed between falling in and being picked up and another mate who was there had to give her CPR,she had drowned in those few seconds,but luckily she was revived and stayed overnight in Hospital,god it was a wake up for all of us with kids and grandkids as you just expect a noisy struggle,not silently going straight to the bottom.
whats really scary is the 100's of the new blow up Intek pools that are from 8 to 15 feet wide and have 4ft sides being sold here in Hervey Bay this year, i wanted one but out of the 5 shops selling them i have to wait to after xmas as thay were all sold out,
i bet there would be less than 5% get a fence

[troppo]

Pool fencing has been compulsory in the NT for about 10 years now as well. Like Queensland, 100% of child drownings has happened in fenced backyard pools. Even stranger, the entire coastline is fenceless, yet drownings in the sea are almost non-existant here, possibly becuase the jellyfish are a good deterrant from swimming in the sea for 8 months of the year and the crocs are a year-round hazard. Might also explain the large ratio of backyard pools:residences

[GTP owner]

If i have a pool at home i need a fence around it, but all of the 5 dams in the paddocks around the house do not. Go figure!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

If i have a pool at home i need a fence around it, but all of the 5 dams in the paddocks around the house do not. Go figure!

The reason for that is simple. If the councils or state government required you to fence your dams then they would be responsible for fencing every creek, dam, or puddle on council/crown land.
This would not only bankrupt them but make them responsible if someone drowed in a storm drain or whatever. So like all good public service institutions they just look the other way with their fingers in their ears and go "na na na na na na I am not listening".

[irlewy86]

Still $300 per inspection! Are they going to X-Ray the fence for internal defects or something.

[IDT]

$300 is a joke. Do you guys have the sprinkler police over there? They do bugger all else, why couldn't they add it to thier role

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Still $300 per inspection! Are they going to X-Ray the fence for internal defects or something.

That is just a ridicules comment. There’s no need to X-ray a pool fence.

This fee pays for an onsite metallurgist (Monday to Friday only) to check the carbon content of the steel to ensure the fence was constructed using the required tubing and to make sure that the fence is resistant to storms, hurricanes, cyclones, earthquakes, termites, blizzards, suicide bombers, political promises, drought, floods, rust, tornados, graffiti, out of control cars, falling trees, mosquitos, land slides, fat people leaning on it, UV rays and electrolysis.

The fee also covers the cost of the local council engineer to check that the holes in the ground didn’t disturb any sacred aboriginal bones and to ensure that the top of the fence has an error rate of no more than two degrees difference from the curvature of the earth. Depending on the religion of the property owner, they will also check to see if the two main posts supporting the gate are facing directly toward Mecca.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

That is just a ridicules comment. There’s no need to X-ray a pool fence.

This fee pays for an onsite metallurgist (Monday to Friday only) to check the carbon content of the steel to ensure the fence was constructed using the required tubing and to make sure that the fence is resistant to storms, hurricanes, cyclones, earthquakes, termites, blizzards, suicide bombers, political promises, drought, floods, rust, tornados, graffiti, out of control cars, falling trees, mosquitos, land slides, fat people leaning on it, UV rays and electrolysis.

The fee also covers the cost of the local council engineer to check that the holes in the ground didn’t disturb any sacred aboriginal bones and to ensure that the top of the fence has an error rate of no more than two degrees difference from the curvature of the earth. Depending on the religion of the property owner, they will also check to see if the two main posts supporting the gate are facing directly toward Mecca.

You is funny!

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by flappist

The reason for that is simple. If the councils or state government required you to fence your dams then they would be responsible for fencing every creek, dam, or puddle on council/crown land.
This would not only bankrupt them but make them responsible if someone drowed in a storm drain or whatever. So like all good public service institutions they just look the other way with their fingers in their ears and go "na na na na na na I am not listening".

I know this, but they had a real difficult one with that huge pool in Cairns - they should have fenced it because it was a man made pool and some drunk may have fallen in and drowned. But 20m away is the beach!

[troppo]

I think the message here is simple:
If someone drowns on your land, it's your fault for providing the water.
If someone drowns on crown land, well that's an unfortunate accident.
In neither case should supervison of children (or lack thereof) be considered a factor.