Legal speed illegal?

[XA-Coupe]

If people are at or near the speed limit your judgement is used to it. Go substantially faster than that and people think they have enough room but in fact don't.... boom.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

don't know about that....when one can get clocked at 170+ in a datto by a speed camera......typical Vic.

they left the "-" sigh off I reckon :

[WizBang]

I agree the person who pulled out of the side street should of seen them as they were only doing about 100 ks or so

[Falcon Coupe]

There is some truth in what you say Rollin, if a guy was killed because they were doing 100 in a 70 zone, i believe they still would have hit him if doing 70, just not as hard, i see idiots do this all the time at the intersection of Thompsons road and Clyde road in Berwick.

[AGRO]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

It all depends on the mood of the copper at the time...as XA Coupe can vouch for...anything that is deemed by the cop to be out of the norm can get you booked.

Maybe so, but it will be thrown out of court.
What's deemed by the cooper at the time, DOES NOT MAKE IT ILLEGAL.
It's his opinion.
Over the years I have been on the road, I have been threatend by a moody copper into being booked a few times. Even when he stands there and can't produce evidence that I was the one involved(Of which I never was, just driving the same model car as a local dick#@&*). I stood my ground, spoke to him the way he did to me, challenged him to court if he decided to procceed with his claim, and nothing ever eventuated.

Why should I be punished for the mood of a copper??????????
If I was in the datto in this example, should I be punished for a coppers bad night??? NO NO NO!!!!!!!

I think it's a fine line to this discussion, and it would all depend I think on how hard the acceleration was, and if you challenged it in court, only then would you know for sure!

AGRO.

[MITCHAY]

Well to me if its so illegal to do so, how come in my experience its only people with P plates or highly modified cars who get done for it. I see mums driving HSVs, FPVs and even Camrys who put the foot down yet dont get done for it.

Surely if its illegal it should be enforced against everyone regardless of age of the driver and type of car.

[MO]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

they left the "-" sigh off I reckon :

LOL.........

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Rollin

Fixed.



yeah i agree, that sort of thing is disgracefull and a huge sensless waste - that guy that pulled out really was a tosser for not looking before he pulled out - they should posthumously give that guy a ticket for failing to give way and/or driving without due care and attention.

i cant believe you people rabbiting on, like you actually believe "every k over is a killer" do you really think each and every road is tested thoroughly and the posted speed limit is right on the ragged bleeding edge of each and every vehicles' performance envelope, with absolutely no margin for error no matter what the prevailing traffic, weather and road conditions are?

and this bulls*** the government is feeding us: "speeding = death" is just justification for them to put speed cameras on every road and reap the millions of dollars a week in revenue, making it look like they actually can balance the books.

have you ever thought its a bit suss that they wont actually release figures relating to how much of the speed camera revenue is actually channeled into road maintenence? because its bugger all...

speed cameras are the best tax ever - they make you pay and at the same time you think you deserved it!!!

speeding does not kill you, inattention, lack of skill and poor judgement will, as it did to that Fewl who pulled out in front of the cars as quoted above.

Like it or not, the dickheads that were doing 100 in the 70 zone are in the wrong. That's about 40% over the limit and I would bet they were accellerating too. That's not 1 or 2 over.
As much as the guy that pulled out in front of them failed to give way, the heroes drag racing now face culpable driving charges. They were driving in a manner and speed that they should reasonably been able to forsee that it's dangerous.
Good rant about speed cameras... too bad it has nothing to do with this discussion

[shane3]

It all depends on the cop and if he/she wants to be a P**CK, I have been warned for getting through the boom gate's before the cop in the unmarked cop car as the road went from 2 lanes down to 1 and not getting stuck in traffic. And then again I have been given the thumbs up buy a cop in a SS (cop car) doing 30 over the posted speed limit.

[MO]

Originally Posted by AGRO

Maybe so, but it will be thrown out of court.
What's deemed by the cooper at the time, DOES NOT MAKE IT ILLEGAL.
It's his opinion.
Over the years I have been on the road, I have been threatend by a moody copper into being booked a few times. Even when he stands there and can't produce evidence that I was the one involved(Of which I never was, just driving the same model car as a local dick#@&*). I stood my ground, spoke to him the way he did to me, challenged him to court if he decided to procceed with his claim, and nothing ever eventuated.

Why should I be punished for the mood of a copper??????????
If I was in the datto in this example, should I be punished for a coppers bad night??? NO NO NO!!!!!!!

I think it's a fine line to this discussion, and it would all depend I think on how hard the acceleration was, and if you challenged it in court, only then would you know for sure!

AGRO.

NO it won't in all probability be thrown out of court....the court will always..unless it can be proven beyond doubt...take the word of the copper!!!!!!!!!

[brenx]

All three parties were in the wrong in that accident. Two doing 100kph = speeding. 1 pulling out = failure to giveway.

All three can be charged with other charges such as "wreckless endangerment" I think the charge is etc.

I had an incident today where I was sitting out in the intersection waiting to turn right. Lights go amber, then go red but cars going straight keep going even though the lights red! I could have T-boned a couple of cars but instead I mouthed, "You f***ing idiots, the light is red!" Then took off as they reversed back from around 1/3rds of the way into the intersection.

[edit] Yes, it's police descretion whether they book someone for accelerating too fast etc. Whether they've had a bay day or not. They have a partner with them as a witness to verify or bounce off whether a fine should be issued. Generally you'll get a warning from a decent offer unless your in an area that is known for street racing very late at night.

[EL_futuraistic]

Yeah my mate was cautioned in his SS commo for accelerating too fast. The copper said he wasnt speeding, but just for him to go easy on the loud pedal :P I have read that you can be done for "driving without due care" and that can apply to many instances, not just rapid acceleration.

In reference to that bayswater accident, Im not sure of exact details but that guy MAY not have been totally in the wrong, if he percieved those vehicles to be doing 70km/h, and they were in fact doing 100km/h then maybe he pulled out with enough time. "allegedly"

Even in dry weather, with rapid acceleration you can still lose control of the vehicle.... maybe a patch of oil on the road for an example.
However, in saying that im not adverse to giving my car a squirt off from the traffic lights from time to time, just to put a smile on the dial.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Rollin

Fixed.



yeah i agree, that sort of thing is disgracefull and a huge sensless waste - that guy that pulled out really was a tosser for not looking before he pulled out - they should posthumously give that guy a ticket for failing to give way and/or driving without due care and attention.

i cant believe you people rabbiting on, like you actually believe "every k over is a killer" do you really think each and every road is tested thoroughly and the posted speed limit is right on the ragged bleeding edge of each and every vehicles' performance envelope, with absolutely no margin for error no matter what the prevailing traffic, weather and road conditions are?

and this bulls*** the government is feeding us: "speeding = death" is just justification for them to put speed cameras on every road and reap the millions of dollars a week in revenue, making it look like they actually can balance the books.

have you ever thought its a bit suss that they wont actually release figures relating to how much of the speed camera revenue is actually channeled into road maintenence? because its bugger all...

speed cameras are the best tax ever - they make you pay and at the same time you think you deserved it!!!

speeding does not kill you, inattention, lack of skill and poor judgement will, as it did to that Fewl who pulled out in front of the cars as quoted above.

Im with you, take all the inexperienced drivers off the roads and all the shi t boxes, and while your at it do the same with dickheads who drink and drive.

Speeding is against the law and is bad, but the government blames it for everything coz its easy to manage, chuck a few speed cameras here and there and we look like we are doing our jobs. Why won't QLD in particular carry out roadworthys on the side of the road anymore? I dont think ive ever seen coppas going over cars for defects in my life, and you only have to sit next to some of them at the lights to realise that they are unroadworthy, whether they have bald tyres, lack of brake lights or no brakes at all.

As for inexperienced drivers they are everywhere, they can be 20 years old or 40 depending on where they been hiding and where they learnt to drive. Old people are in the same boat, people over 70 should have to go for licences every 12 months and do the tests, coz quite frankly they are ing HOPELESS.

Im over Australia and its Road rules, coz they are c rap, as for this topic its a joke, if your within the speedlimit then they really have no reason to come after you as its no different if you were driving thru the intersection at that speed anyways. :monkes: Maybe we should all take off from the lights at 20 kms an hour so people have to fly through them when they are red.. Then the government can get another bite off the red light cameras. Revenue raising yum yums. :

Oh and just to get something straight my driving record is clean and ive never been done for a single offence yet! I see myself as being a cautious driver who does the right thing, but I dont see why people should be hit up for taking off from the lights quick if they wish to, providing they dont break the speed limit. :

[AGRO]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

NO it won't in all probability be thrown out of court....the court will always..unless it can be proven beyond doubt...take the word of the copper!!!!!!!!!

And how do you expect them to take the word of the copper......
If he was moody, and had no evidence that you were accelerating too quickly, how can he prove I was otherwise.
Were any marks left on the road??? NO
Was the car at any time deemed to be out of control??? NO
Do you estimate his speed to be above the limit??? NO
So on what grounds do you find the accused guilty then officer??? F*#@nose
Guilty....I don't think so!!!

[JC]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

Like it or not, the dickheads that were doing 100 in the 70 zone are in the wrong. That's about 40% over the limit and I would bet they were accellerating too. That's not 1 or 2 over.
As much as the guy that pulled out in front of them failed to give way, the heroes drag racing now face culpable driving charges. They were driving in a manner and speed that they should reasonably been able to forsee that it's dangerous.

I agree XA Coupe. My point was not that the driver who got hit was entirely at fault, just that he/she contributed to the accident by failing to give way. Looking left then looking right (and both clear) then pulling out and getting hit is still failure to give way. The speeding was obviously a major factor, and those guys deserve to go to jail for killing someone (too bad it wasn't themselves). Excessive/inappropriate Speed is never OK. What is excessive and what is inappropriate is subjective, but 100 in a 70 zone in any conditions is pretty obvious - especially if the road has side streets. 60 in a 70 zone could also be excessive and inappropriate in the right (wrong) circumstances - eg during the floods up North a month or two ago.

Anyway, back to the topic of useless' thread. Mitchay - you are right. I doubt the cops would pull over a stock Camry that leaves the lights swiftly. But the lowered, loud falcon next to the Camry would be a possible target for being pulled over. Why do you think modified cars are sometimes known as cop-bait? It's not just enthusiasts' eyes that get caught by a good looking (or standout) car, but also criminals and of course the police.

[Stav]

Thats why I have an inch of paint preserving dirt on my car mate.A good alrounder the old wagon.Its always better to not look lairy.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Sorry guys , this is a lame, stupid argument! If you do or dont is you choice . If a cop happens to see you and think your a ken idiot ( and the chances are he will , And because his tin badge says he can ) the he will most likely pull you up on it ! No need to argue with him or us about it . its not going to change the fact that he has a nice ,fresh , volantary state wealth donation request to give to you ! wether you pay it or not is also a choice , as is the right to fight it in court ! If I told you its ok in my eyes will have dik effect on the outcome !

I have had times where I was parked somewhere with a group of likeminded freinds disturbing no one , and a cop or 2 come and issue a couple of canaries just because they dont like us being somewhere in a group ! I never complained about it ! Just went got my road worthy , had the canary removed and went about my business in the knowledge that there are hundreds of times I have got away with violations when they arent around . Now I just walk away from my locked car when coppers turn up and disspear so they cant speak to me about my car legally parked within a defined parking space in a public car park! They wont defect it if they cant find you to say you are with the crowd !

[Stav]

So at this stage in time we can safely bet that as far as safe acceleration goes it is only allowable within reason.Any legal speed limited acceleration is stll bad if you are ..obvious or if the copper is mightily ****ed off.Thats not counting people who think they can just plant 400 rwkws whenever the lights go green.I am not a copper and dont think its sensible.

[Sprint_ED]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

don't know about that....when one can get clocked at 170+ in a datto by a speed camera......typical Vic.

the owner of that datto went to ACA and they proved the top speed of it was 120 was a faulty speed camera, just like a track doing 150-160kmh un the city link tunnel, mine you it was a fully loaded semi going up a hill

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

Originally Posted by wazza3710

It was just on the news about two clowns drag racing in Bayswater just a hour ago and someone pulled out of a side street and one of the cars T-boned him as they were doing about 100 in a 70 zone and killed the person coming out of the side street which is just a waste and thats why you keep this sort of stuff on the track

We get idiots doing well over 120km/h past our house every single night (speed limit is 70km/h), most of the time racing some other fool. It's only a matter of time before there is another fatal accident within a few minutes walk of our house as a result. I've heard them go from a standing start at the traffic lights just up the road, working their way up through the gears and into 6th gear, still at full throttle, every single night since we moved here.

It gets really frustrating when you're trying to get to sleep and you keep getting woken up by LOUD blow off valves and worked engines of all sorts flying past. I love a good car as much as anyone else here, but on friday nights it's just like trying to go to sleep while lying on the ground 10 meters away from the drag strip at calder park!

And yes, you can be booked for getting up to the speed limit at a speed the police officer thinks is too fast, and I've been told you can also be booked for being too slow too - "obstructing the flow of traffic" or something like that.

[Stav]

I pick my kids up from school and heros go up the street like a drag strip.How anyone can live with running someone over is beyond me?

Rollin ..we can all have fun with our cars but within reason. The safest place is the track or on private property.

[QUOTE= you can also be booked for being too slow too - "obstructing the flow of traffic" or something like that.[/QUOTE]
Ill need a longer walking stick mate!!

[MITCHAY]

You dont even need to have a ripped car for it to get out of shape. Ive driven my mums bog stock commodore plenty of times, and even the slightest touch of the pedal and it will step out. Hell i can even boot my POS car in the wet and it will wheelspin hardcore and pull to the side with a gear change.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize whats appropiate driving and what isnt. If your car is wheel spinning or stepping out then your driving inappropiately.

On numerous occasions I have witnessed, this has been the case and the driver has been lucky enough to pull it back in without causing an accident.

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

Originally Posted by useless

Ill need a longer walking stick mate!!

Hahaha, yeah, me too mate!

Oh, and as has already been said, the reason they can get people for undue care for getting to the limit quicker then they think is safe, is because you NEVER know what is going to happen on a public road.

A road may appear totally flat from your perspective as a driver, right up until the moment you feel the road surface dip down or even worse, a huge pothole, making the car suddenly unsettled on the suspension - no problem at say 60km/h, but double that and go over the same bit of road and you could end up in a whole world of hurt.

Same with any number of other things, water/oil/coolant or anything else on the road making it slippery, an animal or person stepping out on the road and into your path, drivers not stopping at stop signs or giving way when they're supposed to. And so on.

Basically, because while YOU may know what you're doing and still be in control of your car, there are too many variables involved which make it unsafe to get up to the limit too quickly.

I hope I've made sense.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

On numerous occasions I have witnessed, this has been the case and the driver has been lucky enough to pull it back in without causing an accident.[/QUOTE]


Im an ex Tow truck operator ! Ive seen hundreds of these same accidents ! Mostly , fools who think they are a race car driver , take a corner and end up with a power pole attached to their car or stuck in a fence ! Luckily , most of the time no one is injured , but sometimes not so lucky !

[M&Ms]

OK, regarding the excessive acceleration issue; how can it be right for a cop to give you a ticket for accelerating too fast when there is no standard on what is considered fast or slow? How is anyone meant to know how fast you are accelerating (physically, in g's for examples) and what the max acceptable acceleration is? Now if there were posted signs saying max acceleration of "x.xx"m/s/s, and your car was fitted with a guage which reads "rate of acceleration", then by all means, book the buggers. But for a cop to be given the right to judge what he deems excessive is over the top in my opinion. As many have stated here, and what others would have also witnessed or experienced, it seems that the enthusiasts who take pride in their cars are the ones who get picked on, whereas 1982 Toyota corollas with no tread on the tyres, no working indicators or stuffed up seat belts can just drive on by without being hassled.

:gren:

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by micmansour

OK, regarding the excessive acceleration issue; how can it be right for a cop to give you a ticket for accelerating too fast when there is no standard on what is considered fast or slow? How is anyone meant to know how fast you are accelerating (physically, in g's for examples) and what the max acceptable acceleration is? Now if there were posted signs saying max acceleration of "x.xx"m/s/s, and your car was fitted with a guage which reads "rate of acceleration", then by all means, book the buggers. But for a cop to be given the right to judge what he deems excessive is over the top in my opinion.

I spose its the same as its always been with noise pollution. What maybe loud to one cop might not be to another cop. Maybe its excessive for one and not the other. Guess its all in the luck of the draw.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by The MaDDeSTMaN

Hahaha, yeah, me too mate!

Oh, and as has already been said, the reason they can get people for undue care for getting to the limit quicker then they think is safe, is because you NEVER know what is going to happen on a public road.

A road may appear totally flat from your perspective as a driver, right up until the moment you feel the road surface dip down or even worse, a huge pothole, making the car suddenly unsettled on the suspension - no problem at say 60km/h, but double that and go over the same bit of road and you could end up in a whole world of hurt.

Same with any number of other things, water/oil/coolant or anything else on the road making it slippery, an animal or person stepping out on the road and into your path, drivers not stopping at stop signs or giving way when they're supposed to. And so on.

Basically, because while YOU may know what you're doing and still be in control of your car, there are too many variables involved which make it unsafe to get up to the limit too quickly.

I hope I've made sense.

My word mate.I do heaps of driving and see so much crap on the road that its not funny!!.I was just cruising at 60 last week in the middle lane and some tosser just decided to throw his car from the side straight onto my car.How he missed me ..I dont know.If I was going faster he would have totalled me.

Another bad one is semitrailers.They take up heaps of room and as the go through curves they dont always track in their lanes..so I stay well away
I really believe that 90% of accidents are due to other drivers mistakes. Of those 90% I believe the stress of financial burden imposed by high taxes,overinflated inflation,fuel costs ,govenrment pressures and generally stupid drivers are the major contributors to our dangerous roads.People are not relaxed. Bad roads are another issue.

[Racecraft]

Originally Posted by useless

Another bad one is semitrailers.They take up heaps of room and as the go through curves they dont always track in their lanes...

That is why they carry "Don't not overtake turning vehicle" warning signs... Amazes me (not you useless) how people get cranky at trucks and buses when it is written in plain english...

[bindi]

Originally Posted by useless

Bad roads are another issue.

I've debated about bad roads. Also about taking off at the lights up to the speed limit. I think I mostly got flamed for it though lol, but that's typical cos I say some weirdass things at times.

Anyway, I see both sides. I've seen someone have the light turn green and get hit by a car running a red (and when I went to help him, all he could say was "But my light was GREEN", poor bloke).

I also have had my fair share of taking off at the lights and up to the speed limit. And I will argue with any copper who tells me any different. If I am under the speed limit then he has no right to hassle me in any way. I am sick of how much power the government and the police have, and will argue my rights for sure. Who the hell are they to judge what they deem to be taking off too fast?!

Originally Posted by Rollin

i cant believe you people rabbiting on, like you actually believe "every k over is a killer" do you really think each and every road is tested thoroughly and the posted speed limit is right on the ragged bleeding edge of each and every vehicles' performance envelope, with absolutely no margin for error no matter what the prevailing traffic, weather and road conditions are?

and this bulls*** the government is feeding us: "speeding = death" is just justification for them to put speed cameras on every road and reap the millions of dollars a week in revenue, making it look like they actually can balance the books.

Absolutely agree. They should be putting more money into making our roads safer. The wrong camber on a wet corner = trouble. And we have them everywhere. It's a mess.

If they treated us with respect and actually wanted us to LIVE while driving on our roads, don't you think they'd make them better to drive on?

And the speed limits are a joke - a very scary joke. Driving up and down the Blue Mountains sees so many changes of speed it's ridiculous. It's not about road condition or weather issues, it's about slowing us down to the point that we're doing 60kph on a road where we used to do 100kph. It's like we're all toddlers who need to be carefully watched, not adults like me who have been driving for 16 years with a clean record.

[Uncle_Ken]

No one has added what affect displaying P plates on a car would have in examples listed so far. I bet that a P plater would get pulled over A.S.A.P if they were driving a XR6 or a Mazda 1300 if they 'took of quick' from a set of lights.
Uncle_Ken