91 Unleaded to be phased out.

[robjh80]

If I wanted Sugar I'd go to the supermarket!

When I pull up at the petrol pump .... I WANT PETROL!!

98 for me and nothing else.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by want-a-XY

i think E10 is one of the stupidest ideas ever. the farmers are going to burn millions of litres of diesel planting, growing and harvesting their crops to turn into ethanol, then it's going to make up 10% of petrol, which apparently is more "GREEN" to the environment.

so the millions and millions of Litres of diesel which are burnt producing the diesel is going to be offset by the 10% in some petrol?!?!?!?!?! DON'T THINK SO

absolutely pointless to me

Well maybe you should look in more to it...

Correct me if im wrong, but most (if not all) of the ethenol used in E10 comes from sugercain already harvested for suger production... It uses the liquid by product. So its not really causeing much harm...

Edit*
Well someone beat me!

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

As far as I know the Sugar cane Farmer still gets his Sugar from his cane as usual & it is only what is left after that process which is turned into Ethanol.

And it is not Millions of Litres to grow a Sugar cane crop lol as you plant it & then it grows & then you harvest it.

Soon enough we will be E85 & this will be a Great Day as not only will it be cheaper, provide a Boost to our Economy but also be better for the Pollution levels.

Bring it on

And I run my XR6 Ute on E10 which actually runs smoother than 91 or 95 Octane regular Unleaded (it is 95 Octane).
I can run a 98 Tune on E10 with no Pinging

yep, i think alot of people need to look in to E10. Most people who reject it sound like my pop...

"Ran into bill down at the market and he said E10 is useless because ol' ted told him that he had a yarn to some bloke who read somwhere that pure ethanol can wreck rubber hoses"

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by timace

Haha, not any. I made that mistake with the Telstar, killed the fuel pump.

E10 killed your fuel pump? I'd wager that the fuel pump would have gone cactus had there not been any E10 in your tank at the time.

[RonH]

So if we start selling our grain and sugar cane to the fuel suppliers because we can get more for it, who will sell to the flour mills to produce food. If demand goes up, then prices will go up, so our food will go up.
All to produce a product that has to be mixed with petrol so we can run it in some vehicles.
Lets all get behind it.
Besides, food is far too cheap. Just ask the oldies who have to live on $280 a week.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by robjh80

If I wanted Sugar I'd go to the supermarket!

When I pull up at the petrol pump .... I WANT PETROL!!

98 for me and nothing else.

I think if you check ??
98 has a % of ethanol in it anyway ...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by RonH

So if we start selling our grain and sugar cane to the fuel suppliers because we can get more for it, who will sell to the flour mills to produce food. If demand goes up, then prices will go up, so our food will go up.
All to produce a product that has to be mixed with petrol so we can run it in some vehicles.
Lets all get behind it.
Besides, food is far too cheap. Just ask the oldies who have to live on $280 a week.

Umm, didn't your read, ethanol is made from a by-product of sugercane...

-Sugercane gets harvested
-Suger is prosessed and sent to shops
-Molasses is sent of and refined into Ethanol

Its not a hard thing to grasp...

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by AnH

So if we start selling our grain and sugar cane to the fuel suppliers because we can get more for it, who will sell to the flour mills to produce food. If demand goes up, then prices will go up, so our food will go up.
All to produce a product that has to be mixed with petrol so we can run it in some vehicles.
Lets all get behind it.
Besides, food is far too cheap. Just ask the oldies who have to live on $280 a week.

At Least the $$ stays in our country and I would MUCH rather see a wealthy farmer than a rich Arab in his own country!!
If you have bigger injectors and high compression??
Or forced induction with tunable ECU then its all good!!
Here is some info etc on E85 and some results of cars running on it...
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=47094.0

Oh BTW it was fuel prices that put the price of food up..
We make more than enough food. That's just an excuse some use...
Clearing forests in some countries has nothing to do with it either.. That's another issue.. But some draw a long bow to try and win an argument or their means...

[RonH]

Sugercane gets harvested
-Suger is prosessed and sent to shops
-Molasses is sent of and refined into Ethanol

Your kidding i hope.
Molasses, The main product in the production of Bundy Rum.
Thats it, Ethanol is no good if its going to to put the price of Qld's finest.

[ebxr8240]

Bundy is schit and I drink rum..Lol..

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by RonH

So if we start selling our grain and sugar cane to the fuel suppliers because we can get more for it, who will sell to the flour mills to produce food. If demand goes up, then prices will go up, so our food will go up.
All to produce a product that has to be mixed with petrol so we can run it in some vehicles.
Lets all get behind it.
Besides, food is far too cheap. Just ask the oldies who have to live on $280 a week.

You are not listening, I was talking of surplus produce which is exactly what the government is talking about. Grain crops are not used at this point but there is a possibility that it could, we have lots of it. Maybe if farmers are having more income, cropping more, moving more, more is being produced into fuel in our country, it may produce some jobs for our countrymen. Just a thought.

I personally would pay 10c more for a loaf of bread if I am paying 20c/L less for fuel. That is where we should be aiming our comments, at the fuel companies to lower the cost of the fuel in line with the lowered cost of ethanol blend fuels.

I give it 5 years before we see 85 blend at the pumps, our V8 Super cars will be drinking it next year.

[Bossxr8]

You use more fuel with ethanol, so the cost saving per litre just goes towards the extra petrol you burn running E10, so the cost benefits are nil.

I'll keep mine on 95.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You use more fuel with ethanol, so the cost saving per litre just goes towards the extra petrol you burn running E10, so the cost benefits are nil.

I'll keep mine on 95.

Not 100 % correct...
If its tuned correct it will almost be the same ..
Especially with higher compression...
The turbo engines should go well on it...
Imo it should be sold independent from oil companies so it opposition to them!! This should create some competition price wise..

[geckoGT]

Imo it should be sold independent from oil companies so it opposition to them!! This should create some competition price wise..

Very interesting point, maybe more effective when E85 comes through. I think it is something that the farmers should look into, keep the money in Oz. Huge capital outlay would be the problem though.

[Auslandau]

I throw anything into the BA and the other cars and dont notice a cracker of difference on any. Cars all still running, nothing blown up

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Not Imo it should be sold independent from oil companies so it opposition to them!! This should create some competition price wise..

Brilliant idea actually. Already started with more United and other shops opening pushing the E. Will get more and more as things progress, then see how the oill companies react! Competition is a !!



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[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You use more fuel with ethanol, so the cost saving per litre just goes towards the extra petrol you burn running E10, so the cost benefits are nil.

I'll keep mine on 95.

Not True as I get the same Economy with E10 as with 95 Octane Unleaded.

And the E10 seems to make either more or Smoother Power, either way it runs better with E10. (In my Vehicle)

And Sugar Cane Farmers have been doing it tough for some time as the price of Sugar has fallen, so much so many have stopped growing Sugar cane & some are even growing turf as it makes them more Money.

It will work in Australia for the good of all as well as the environment just as it has in America & Brazil.

And if they grow grain to make it in the future they will grow more grain & again more Farmers benifet.

However here so far we are talking Sugar Cane & it is all good.

And Holden will have an E85 Commodore out by next year maybe however you can get an ECU add on Box for most Vehicles which lets you run E85 now.
And Engines have been tested over many years in Brazil using this.

[Cobra]

I don't know about the other states but here in SA we have SAFF (South Australian Farmers Federation) petrol stations, and they sell a lot of E10, and all other fuels with ethonol in them. If they could somehow put more pressure on the oil companies with these fuels, it could only be a good thing. I think it will happen, and it will mean that the farmers recoup some well deserved finacnes, more money stays in our country, and the petrol giants monopoly on fuel prices ect with be slowly shifting away from them.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Cobra

I don't know about the other states but here in SA we have SAFF (South Australian Farmers Federation) petrol stations, and they sell a lot of E10, and all other fuels with ethonol in them. If they could somehow put more pressure on the oil companies with these fuels, it could only be a good thing. I think it will happen, and it will mean that the farmers recoup some well deserved finacnes, more money stays in our country, and the petrol giants monopoly on fuel prices ect with be slowly shifting away from them.

If they came up here in NSW I would use it!!
I'm totally sick of being ripped by big companies..
Now they are saying our dollar is lower!!!
When we where paying 85c a litre our $$ was around 70c and $90 a barrell..
Its about the same now!! We are payng near $1.50...
Bring on home grown I say !! Fuel that is !!!

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Not 100 % correct...
If its tuned correct it will almost be the same ..
Especially with higher compression...
The turbo engines should go well on it...
Imo it should be sold independent from oil companies so it opposition to them!! This should create some competition price wise..

From the real world testing I have seen you tend to lose a higher % of mileage than you save on the cost of E85 even with a purpose tuned ECU, most modded/tuned cars find they need to get bigger injectors to get the same power due to the lower energy in ethanol. You can get more power out of E85 though because it is such high RON it burns colder and you can run insanely high advanced timing. If you have the fuel system and tuning capabilty E85 is a good choice for power not so much economy.

As with any fuel/engine combo I've heard of, multi fuel bad, purpose built good.

[The Yeti]

I take it thats as a way of phasing in E85? does any one have any idea what the saveing will be for this over 91 or I guess 95? or should I continue as pland for dedicated LPG for the chev?

[ebxr8240]

Ethanol has higher Stoic than methanol and you cannot argue that
Alcohol makes power, but requires load, compression, timing...
As discussed in link I posted above.. Some cars are making over 1000 h.p on E85...
The Taurus cam out in U.S as a multy fuel engine which was tuned to run on these fuels...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What would a conversion involve and cost? In the end I'll prob just bite the bullet and get the 95...

i have only started using 98 in our mazda 121 so my judgement may be clouded and a little ignorant still
from normal unleaded i would put 27 litres in and get around 320 ks
from bp ultimate i would put 24 litres in and get around 320 ks
the cost was the same, just less fuel. the car runs much better and i assume with the higher octane it goes a little faster. if i drive at the same speed with both, the foot is not as heavy with the ultimate and then i save fuel

all up it seems i get the same amount of distance for the money, because it uses less 98 octane than 91. and it runs much better


even if it more expensive to run the 98, i do not think it is much difference at all. certainly not the 12-16 cents a litre it seems at the pump

[Rob's 76 Effy]

Umm wonder if my V6 explorer would like E10, i used it in my EB station wagon with no ill effects, couldn't tell the difference actually, Oh yes i could i saved 9c a litre using shopper dockets LoL

[ebxr8240]

Ethanol has higher Stoic than methanol and you cannot argue that
Alcohol makes power, but requires load, compression, timing...
As discussed in link I posted above.. Some cars are making over 1000 h.p on E85...
The Taurus came out in U.S as a multi fuel engine which was tuned to run on these fuels...
Yes more fuel consumption, but less throttle is required so it comes back to driving style.. Much like LPG..It can run higher compression / timing.. Again if tuned correct it can be just as efficient fuel wise..
I think the V8 sc runing E85 will drink the stuff with 10 to 1 compression.. Though it will be interesting the power level differences.. There maybe some engine failures till sorted...

[notty1978]

I will never use E10 in any of my cars
I would not even put it in my mower

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

If they came up here in NSW I would use it!!
I'm totally sick of being ripped by big companies..
Now they are saying our dollar is lower!!!
When we where paying 85c a litre our $$ was around 70c and $90 a barrell..
Its about the same now!! We are payng near $1.50...
Bring on home grown I say !! Fuel that is !!!

What you have said is my Argument Exactly, what has changed to make the pump price so expensive than it was under the same conditions back a bit in time?

It is just a rip off by the Oil Companies mostly :

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

From the real world testing I have seen you tend to lose a higher % of mileage than you save on the cost of E85 even with a purpose tuned ECU, most modded/tuned cars find they need to get bigger injectors to get the same power due to the lower energy in ethanol. You can get more power out of E85 though because it is such high RON it burns colder and you can run insanely high advanced timing. If you have the fuel system and tuning capabilty E85 is a good choice for power not so much economy.

As with any fuel/engine combo I've heard of, multi fuel bad, purpose built good.

This may be true, can't say I have seen testing to either support or refute this myself. This idea raises the question of cost to produce. Is an 85 ethanol blend cheaper to produce than using dinosaur blood? It may not be in a agriculture poor country but this is something Australia is not. We often have agriculture production capabilities that exceed available market demand.

If it is then surely that will equate to a cheaper cost per litre for E85 which will offset the higher fuel consumption, disadvantage remaining is range per tank.

Just have a look a LPG, the standard LPG takes more volume of fuel to travel the came distance as petrol, but because LPG is $1/L cheaper, the car is much cheaper to run. I imagine E85 would cost less than 1.20/L, with 91 at 1.40/L, it would take some difference in economy to cause the E85 not to be cheaper.

The reason I assume ethanol blends are cheaper is it is a renewable energy source, we can just grow more, especially in our agriculture rich country. We can not grow more crude oil and stocks are limited, that is why oil companies charge so much for it.

I can tell you that in Bougainville during the civil war they could not get fuel from PNG, so they ran all their cars on their jungle juice (home made alcohol made from bananas, coconuts and pineapples). I am sure if they can make it in the backyard, industry can do it more efficiently.

[jmack]

i guess all we need now is a solution to make water to feed the crops to feed the engine.the way water is getting scarce it will put up the price for the farmers to produce it which blows the cost savings straight out the exhaust again.

[300C-CRD]

Some smart traders will start importing Ethanol from Brazil as they can produce it much cheaper than in Australia. Just like most of the food in our local supermarkets, very few are produced in Australia now a day. So with the E10, someone will make heaps money somewhere but not necessary our local farmers.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by jmack

i guess all we need now is a solution to make water to feed the crops to feed the engine.the way water is getting scarce it will put up the price for the farmers to produce it which blows the cost savings straight out the exhaust again.

We can have all the Water we need as we are surrounded by a Huge Ocean.
Then we can Pipe it anywhere it is needed.