beat the system. :)

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by D1XR2C

Thats if its true, he has one?

How? Only car avaliable?

Is that case i would say the kid has left the car in his dad's name, if he only had the 1 car in his name he'd be right. Even if his wife had a car they could say they are currently living apart, they couldn't disproove this and he'd be clear.

[Auslandau]

I had 5 accidents on my P's, all in the spate of 2 years. 3 were not my fault, but I contributed to all of them. I was a damn good driver as I had been driving since I was 15. (From the country property).....so I thought. After the last one, which was bad, I grew up damn fast, relised it was me, I wasnt indestructable, was a bad driver and.....touch wood..... havnt had one now for nearly 20 years!

This is a rule I beleive in as my son is now on P's and I would kick his **** if he had an attitude like I did, and some here. If he wanted to get around the V8/power/ratio rule, again another kick up the ****. I dont care if it takes him an extra 30 seconds to reach 100 Km's in the 6 cyl ZJ. At least he has control when taking off at the lights AND has a bit of time to react WHEN things go wrong, NOT IF!..........I want him to reach the age when he can go off the P's and will happlily throw the 351 in its place! But until then........P platers are learning to drive! You HAVE NOT got the experience. You are not indestructable! Grow up and then you are allowed to play!



| [/url] |

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by auslandau

I had 5 accidents on my P's, all in the spate of 2 years. 3 were not my fault, but I contributed to all of them. I was a damn good driver as I had been driving since I was 15. (From the country property).....so I thought. After the last one, which was bad, I grew up damn fast, relised it was me, I wasnt indestructable, was a bad driver and.....touch wood..... havnt had one now for nearly 20 years!

This is a rule I beleive in as my son is now on P's and I would kick his **** if he had an attitude like I did, and some here. If he wanted to get around the V8/power/ratio rule, again another kick up the ****. I dont care if it takes him an extra 30 seconds to reach 100 Km's in the 6 cyl ZJ. At least he has control when taking off at the lights AND has a bit of time to react WHEN things go wrong, NOT IF!..........I want him to reach the age when he can go off the P's and will happlily throw the 351 in its place! But until then........P platers are learning to drive! You HAVE NOT got the experience. You are not indestructable! Grow up and then you are allowed to play!

Just because you were a tool when you were young doesn't mean your kid will be.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Just because you were a tool when you were young doesn't mean your kid will be.

You missed the point........I drove to my ability, the same as most new drivers then. My kid drives to his ability, the same as most new drivers today! Thats whats scarey. I didnt drive like a 'tool'. I just didnt know how easy it is to be in an accident. I was lucky aand 90% of P's out there are damn lucky. Its not skill at 18 with 2 months experience on the road with your mates as passengers.

New drivers are VERY unrestricted on how they behave. Getting around this almost one and only rule is stupidity, both on the parts of parents who allow it and the driver, no matter how good they THINK they are! :yeees:



| [/url] |

[Tote]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I don't see why people feel the need to 'beat the system'.
Statistically young drivers die frequently in powerful cars. So the law is to avaiod this. The same law exsisted when I was on P's but I didn't have a problem. If you can't wait 3 years to buy a V8 then you have a problem. The way I saw it was that I gave me 3 more years to save.

Then there's the other side of the story, An inlaw of mine moved to Cobar for work with his p plate girlfriend and bought a V8 ute. He got done for DUI and lost his licence, their only vehicle is the ute. Why shouldn't she be able to get an exemption to drive the ute so that they have a means of transport?
I'll also point out that yes, he shouldn't have been DUI but why should his family be unnecessarily punished when compared to someone who lives in Melbourne where there is ample public transport.

As to the person who is the subject of this topic, I'm sure that if he misbehaves too much he will lose his licence anyway and what car he owns will be a moot point.
As was stated above, there are always exceptions to the rules.
Regards,
Tote

[Steffo]

Not a waste of money at all. It is manipulating the stupidest, most idiotic, unintelligent, ignorant and appaling system there is. Freedom? What's that!?!?!?

I hope more people do the same, the RTA can shove it. And the proof of their ineptitude is in statistics they themselves make... since their restrictions, P-Plate deaths doubled. Great work idiots.

You just have to look at some of the rules and wonder what fills the heads of the people who make these rules... its obviously not brain matter, or anything close to it...

Volkswagen Golf GTI MkV - 2.0 Turbo 4 cyl, 147kW 280Nm. 0-100km/h in 6.8, 1/4 in 14.9, 240km/h. Banned. Turbo.

Volkswagen Golf R32 MkV - 3.2 V6, 184kW 320Nm. 0-100km/h in 5.5 sec, 1/4 in 13.6 sec, 250km/h. Legal. N/A V6 with less than 200kW.

But wait... there's more...

Audi A4 2.0T FSI - 2.0 Turbo 4 cyl, 147kW 280Nm. 0-100km/h in 7.2 sec, 1/4 in 15.1 sec, 250km/h. Banned. Turbo.

Audi A4 3.0 TDI - 3.0 Twin Turbo Diesel V6, 173kW 450Nm. 0-100km/h in 6.5 sec, 1/4 in 14.5 sec, 250km/h. Legal. Its a diesel.

But you don't just have to look at expensive new cars.... how about this...

AUIII Ford Falcon Forte 5.0 - 5.0 V8 175kW 395Nm. Hits 100km/h in about 8 seconds, "blasts" down the 1/4 mile in about 16 seconds flat, maxes out at what 200? Banned. V8.

BF Ford Falcon XT - 4.0 190kW 383Nm Six. Hits those same 100km/h in almost 7 dead and that same 1/4 mile in almost 15 dead. 210km/h. Legal, its a six.

And soforth.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by auslandau

You missed the point........I drove to my ability, the same as most new drivers then. My kid drives to his ability, the same as most new drivers today! Thats whats scarey. I didnt drive like a 'tool'. I just didnt know how easy it is to be in an accident. I was lucky aand 90% of P's out there are damn lucky. Its not skill at 18 with 2 months experience on the road with your mates as passengers.

New drivers are VERY unrestricted on how they behave. Getting around this almost one and only rule is stupidity, both on the parts of parents who allow it and the driver, no matter how good they THINK they are! :yeees:

Speed is the main factor in most deaths on the road. Show me any new car, hell any car that isn't capable of breaking the max speed limit is australia. My point is if someone wants to speed they will regardless what they are made to drive.

In the last 12 months the p plater death's in my local area has more than doubled, the copper (hwp driving instructor) himself said that in every one of these cases not 1 was driving a performance car. Bad judgement, speed and inablility were the causes. Teach people to drive don't limit what they are allowed to.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Speed is the main factor in most deaths on the road. Show me any new car, hell any car that isn't capable of breaking the max speed limit is australia. My point is if someone wants to speed they will regardless what they are made to drive.

In the last 12 months the p plater death's in my local area has more than doubled, the copper (hwp driving instructor) himself said that in every one of these cases not 1 was driving a performance car. Bad judgement, speed and inablility were the causes. Teach people to drive don't limit what they are allowed to.

Very well put!

Its sad when you look at road toll statistics...

Australia and Germany have the same amount of deaths on the road each year. Except... Germany has 3 to 4 times the amount of people compared to Australia. So per capita they are far far better. And they can drive anything at any age and on some roads go as fast as they want. Uhm?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Very well put!

Its sad when you look at road toll statistics...

Australia and Germany have the same amount of deaths on the road each year. Except... Germany has 3 to 4 times the amount of people compared to Australia. So per capita they are far far better. And they can drive anything at any age and on some roads go as fast as they want. Uhm?

Agree.....THe biggest problem is driver education. Thats another topic and also a reason why restrictions should be in place......because any twit can get a license and why there should be some restrictions. Of course there are cars that should be on the list and it is a bit all over the place, but its a start! So I should hand the keys to my 600HP car to my son and tell him to go have some fun???? Not bloody likely! Neither would come home in one piece.

OH by the way.....2004 figures.....Germany 5800 deaths.....Australia 1500. That by population is about equal. Try not to use facts & figures incorrectly.....its not good. The european license is a bit harder to obtain than walking into vic roads and going for a spin around the block! And if you have driven over there, the road system craps on Australias AND boy do they know how to drive. It is amazing and all you can say as you are doing 200kmh on the autobahn is.......wow! When they have an accident though.......they really have an accident! Also if you do get caught speeding.....you dont just get a fine sent to you in the mail. Its off to the station thank you very much!



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[Tote]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Speed is the main factor in most deaths on the road. Show me any new car, hell any car that isn't capable of breaking the max speed limit is australia. My point is if someone wants to speed they will regardless what they are made to drive.

In the last 12 months the p plater death's in my local area has more than doubled, the copper (hwp driving instructor) himself said that in every one of these cases not 1 was driving a performance car. Bad judgement, speed and inablility were the causes. Teach people to drive don't limit what they are allowed to.

Could you please provide a reference for your opening statement (other than the Daily Telegraph)
Come to think of it could you also provide the statistics that you derived the statement that "P plater deaths have doubled in your area in the last 12 months"
Making statements like the one above is not solving the problem just as most of the road laws that seem to be being enacted lately.

Regards,
Tote

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Agree.....THe biggest problem is driver education. Thats another topic and also a reason why restrictions should be in place......because any twit can get a license and why there should be some restrictions. Of course there are cars that should be on the list and it is a bit all over the place, but its a start! So I should hand the keys to my 600HP car to my son and tell him to go have some fun???? Not bloody likely! Neither would come home in one piece.

OH by the way.....2004 figures.....Germany 5800 deaths.....Australia 1500. That by population is about equal. And the european license is a bit harder to obtain than walking into vic roads and going for a spin around the block! And if you have driven over there, the road system craps on Australias AND boy do they know how to drive. It is amazing and all you can say as you are doing 200kmh on the autobahn is.......wow!

If you handed the keys to your son for even a 1ooorwhp car and he drove according to the road rules and speed limit's there wouldn't be an issue.

Kid's arn't being taught how to drive they are being taught how to pass a test, they need to be taught how to judge speed and distances. They need to be taught how to brake rapidly, not just swearve the other way while slaamming the skids on.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by Tote

Could you please provide a reference for your opening statement (other than the Daily Telegraph)
Come to think of it could you also provide the statistics that you derived the statement that "P plater deaths have doubled in your area in the last 12 months"
Making statements like the one above is not solving the problem just as most of the road laws that seem to be being enacted lately.

Regards,
Tote

I done a defender's driving program run by the police in the campbelltown region, i'm sorry i forgot to write down every last detail for you but i promise next time i'll get it on video so you can watch.



Clown

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

If you handed the keys to your son for even a 1ooorwhp car and he drove according to the road rules and speed limit's there wouldn't be an issue.

Kid's arn't being taught how to drive they are being taught how to pass a test, they need to be taught how to judge speed and distances. They need to be taught how to brake rapidly, not just swearve the other way while slaamming the skids on.

I agree with you! They are not being taught how to drive. Only to pass tests. SO as it stands right now, with the experience he has, and that is partly my fault for not sending him to driver education as yet, he could not, would not or know what to do when he puts his foot down in something like that.

On his L plates I let him drive it once, on a SUnday at the back of some factories. Told him to put it into 1st (auto) and put his foot down. Well after 3 seconds he was facing the opposite direction, cold sweat, got out and said, "Well, that was different!" If that was in traffic, he would have wiped out 1/2 dozen. I showed him how to drive it but it would have taken a hell of a lot more time than a quick jaunt for him (or any youbg kid) to be experienced with something like that on the road. Confidence is good, too much is a concern!

Calling people a 'clown' doesnt help either. Statistics are far to easy to throw around without back up.........as noted with previous incorect figures about road tolls in Germany! :



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[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by auslandau

I agree with you! They are not being taught how to drive. Only to pass tests. SO as it stands right now, with the experience he has, and that is partly my fault for not sending him to driver education as yet, he could not, would not or know what to do when he puts his foot down in something like that.

On his L plates I let him drive it once, on a SUnday at the back of some factories. Told him to put it into 1st (auto) and put his foot down. Well after 3 seconds he was facing the opposite direction, cold sweat, got out and said, "Well, that was different!" If that was in traffic, he would have wiped out 1/2 dozen. I showed him how to drive it but it would have taken a hell of a lot more time than a quick jaunt for him (or any youbg kid) to be experienced with something like that on the road. Confidence is good, too much is a concern!

A driving instructor will never teach him anything but how to pass a test, take him out to a quite area and teach him how to throw the car around. It'll probally be the smartest thing you ever do for him, either that or teaching him to wear a rubber : .

[Tote]

I just did a google search on road toll figures, the results from the search were interesting to say the least, below are the titles of the search results:

Alarmingly, there was an increase of 5% in the road toll in NSW in 2000 compared with 1999

NSW ROAD TOLL THE LOWEST FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
in NSW with the. announcement of the. preliminary road toll figures. for 2001.

2004 Road Toll in Review. Fatalities. [Note: The number of fatalities for ... The largest increase in fatalities for 2003 was in the 20-24 year age group, ...

OLYMPICS COULD BE CAUSE OF MAJOR INCREASE IN NSW ROAD DEATHS
MAJOR INCREASE IN NSW ROAD DEATHS. Increased transport movements of people ...

It would seem that a reduction in the toll brings on self congratulation from all and sundry but an increase leads to progressively tighter laws which do not seem to have any major impact.
The road toll is such a political football in Australia that it is very hard to have a balanced discussion on how to lower it. It certainly seems that progressively tighter licencing and enforcement schemes are not having much of an effect. Maybe the pollies opened a can of worms when they took credit for the advances made by random breath testing in the early eighties and now need to be seen to be repeating that feat?

Maybe the next major gain will be as a result of random drug testing?

Regards,
Tote (court jester rather than a mere clown)

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by Tote

I just did a google search on road toll figures, the results from the search were interesting to say the least, below are the titles of the search results:

Alarmingly, there was an increase of 5% in the road toll in NSW in 2000 compared with 1999

NSW ROAD TOLL THE LOWEST FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
in NSW with the. announcement of the. preliminary road toll figures. for 2001.

2004 Road Toll in Review. Fatalities. [Note: The number of fatalities for ... The largest increase in fatalities for 2003 was in the 20-24 year age group, ...

OLYMPICS COULD BE CAUSE OF MAJOR INCREASE IN NSW ROAD DEATHS
MAJOR INCREASE IN NSW ROAD DEATHS. Increased transport movements of people ...

It would seem that a reduction in the toll brings on self congratulation from all and sundry but an increase leads to progressively tighter laws which do not seem to have any major impact.
The road toll is such a political football in Australia that it is very hard to have a balanced discussion on how to lower it. It certainly seems that progressively tighter licencing and enforcement schemes are not having much of an effect. Maybe the pollies opened a can of worms when they took credit for the advances made by random breath testing in the early eighties and now need to be seen to be repeating that feat?

Maybe the next major gain will be as a result of random drug testing?

Regards,
Tote (court jester rather than a mere clown)

Illict drugs was a very minor cause of accidents let alone death's, alcohol was worse.

[ThoR_]

P Platers cant drive for poo anyway they always loose control. He shouldnt have a VT SS thats for sure. Ive seen 2 P Platers in VX SS`s loose it off the traffic lights trying to drag people and up the medium strip i wound down my window and yelled AAHHAHAHA SUCK SH!T!.

Serves them right

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by ThoR_

P Platers cant drive for poo anyway they always loose control. He shouldnt have a VT SS thats for sure. Ive seen 2 P Platers in VX SS`s loose it off the traffic lights trying to drag people and up the medium strip i wound down my window and yelled AAHHAHAHA SUCK SH!T!.

Serves them right

My first car was a xr8 and i never lost or spun that once, i bought my Ba xr8 when i was 19 and shortly after had it modded even with 5oorwhp i never lost. SOme can drive some can't.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

SOme can drive some can't.

EXACTLY!

So, laws are made for the majority, not minority.

Ive said it before, but give me one good reason why a P plater needs a V8, or some hi-po 6? Try and put your ego aside for a sec.

Im not anti performance car, but there is NO harm in limiting what young people can drive for a couple of years. I know its not the best thing, but lets face it, the Government isn't about to start building some driving schools, which is what is needed.

So just like motorbikes, there should be a restriction.

If this saves a few lives, then isn't it worth it?

Younger drivers will then learn how to drive on the roads, not in books, and then have the experience necessary to buy whatever car they like once they are off their P's.

Its not fool proof, as people will still die, but at least we have done something to slow the rate, or even cut it down.

Limited passengers after xx:xxPM is another great idea as well...

[XRchic]

I was taught to drive on a racetrack and drove on that well before I was old enough to get my licence for regular street driving and you would be very surprised at the difference it makes to your attitude when you first get your Ls and how you approach things like wet roads, sudden braking, other idiots on the road and things like that.

It gives you a very different perspecting on regular metro driving at least. Makes you respect the laws of physics and the effects of stufing up.

[Jock260]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Not a waste of money at all. It is manipulating the stupidest, most idiotic, unintelligent, ignorant and appaling system there is. Freedom? What's that!?!?!?

I hope more people do the same, the RTA can shove it. And the proof of their ineptitude is in statistics they themselves make... since their restrictions, P-Plate deaths doubled. Great work idiots.

You just have to look at some of the rules and wonder what fills the heads of the people who make these rules... its obviously not brain matter, or anything close to it...

Volkswagen Golf GTI MkV - 2.0 Turbo 4 cyl, 147kW 280Nm. 0-100km/h in 6.8, 1/4 in 14.9, 240km/h. Banned. Turbo.

Volkswagen Golf R32 MkV - 3.2 V6, 184kW 320Nm. 0-100km/h in 5.5 sec, 1/4 in 13.6 sec, 250km/h. Legal. N/A V6 with less than 200kW.

But wait... there's more...

Audi A4 2.0T FSI - 2.0 Turbo 4 cyl, 147kW 280Nm. 0-100km/h in 7.2 sec, 1/4 in 15.1 sec, 250km/h. Banned. Turbo.

Audi A4 3.0 TDI - 3.0 Twin Turbo Diesel V6, 173kW 450Nm. 0-100km/h in 6.5 sec, 1/4 in 14.5 sec, 250km/h. Legal. Its a diesel.

But you don't just have to look at expensive new cars.... how about this...

AUIII Ford Falcon Forte 5.0 - 5.0 V8 175kW 395Nm. Hits 100km/h in about 8 seconds, "blasts" down the 1/4 mile in about 16 seconds flat, maxes out at what 200? Banned. V8.

BF Ford Falcon XT - 4.0 190kW 383Nm Six. Hits those same 100km/h in almost 7 dead and that same 1/4 mile in almost 15 dead. 210km/h. Legal, its a six.

And soforth.

exactly mate, i cant cant figure out this ******** system

[Polyal]

Actually come to think of it, just about every mode of serious transport has age/level restrictions.....except cars. Once you have the experience, then you can move on.

As for certain cars being legal and not, you have to draw the line somewhere, no law is perfect.

[Mental]

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

well some of yous may have read the thread about the p plater i know who bought a vt ss with clubsport bodykit and was driving it around even though p platers cant drive v8s or turbos. i did a poll about it being a waste of money. the majority said yes.

well i just resently found out he has a certificate from the rta because he claims it is the only car available and he needs it for work. so my question is now. do you still think it was a waste of money now that it has all been done by manipulating the system?

i say good on him, the rule is bogus and he found a way around it. cheers

My mate got an exception when he was on his P's. He lives out of town and the only car is the family Statesman. His mother has MS and as such does not want to drive for obvious reasons. The RTA had no problems with this exception and it was granted. The rule is there FOR A REASON! Getting around it for your EGO is worth a good kickbox to the face!



As for the P Platers cant drive thing ... I learnt to drive in a paddock, with a variety of clapped out old POS's. Some of them would fight you all the way to an amazing top speed of 60km/h! and we still managed to park'em in ditches and up trees, you name it - we hit it. As soon as I got my P's I was straight into the XD ex-interceptor. And to date have not had a single crash -ever- because I never drive like a maniac, and my personal understanding of the physics of cars makes me much more able to recognise when other cars are placing themselves in dangerous situations and how to act appropriately.

The point I wanna make is this, I learnt to drive under very different circumstances. I had a driving outlet BEFORE I was allowed onto public roads. The kids these days only get an outlet ON PUBLIC ROADS AFTER GETTING THE -OVERSEER- OUT OF THE PASSENGER SEAT!

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Agree.....THe biggest problem is driver education. Thats another topic and also a reason why restrictions should be in place......because any twit can get a license and why there should be some restrictions. Of course there are cars that should be on the list and it is a bit all over the place, but its a start! So I should hand the keys to my 600HP car to my son and tell him to go have some fun???? Not bloody likely! Neither would come home in one piece.

OH by the way.....2004 figures.....Germany 5800 deaths.....Australia 1500. That by population is about equal. Try not to use facts & figures incorrectly.....its not good. The european license is a bit harder to obtain than walking into vic roads and going for a spin around the block! And if you have driven over there, the road system craps on Australias AND boy do they know how to drive. It is amazing and all you can say as you are doing 200kmh on the autobahn is.......wow! When they have an accident though.......they really have an accident! Also if you do get caught speeding.....you dont just get a fine sent to you in the mail. Its off to the station thank you very much!

Australia has 20,264,082 people according to the CIA World Factbook. Germany has 82,422,299 people according to the same source.

Therefore... 1500 Australian's is 0.074% of our population. 5800 Germans is 0.070% of their population.

I have here with me the March 2005 edition of Wheels which has some statistics on how well Australia fairs against EU nations in deaths per 100,000 people on the roads. They're 2002-based statistics.

Australia = 8.7 deaths per 100,000.

That's better then Spain, Italy, France, Ireland and Austria.

The rest beat us. Some hammer us, UK for example, 6.1 deaths per 100,000. So not only do they have 3x the people, they have 2.6 deaths less per 100,000 people on the road.

Germany scored 8.3.

The European licence is a bit harder to obtain true, and that's a good thing. All I had to do to get my licence here was reverse park, do a three point turn and stop at stop signs. Any moron can do that.

No you shouldn't give your son the keys to your 600hp car and say go have fun. However on the same token, why should he be forced to drive something with 60hp? Alot of untold statisics in the P-Plater fiasco are the amount of young people that die immediately after getting their full licence. They buy an SS, an XR8, something turbo etc. After years of driving their Civic/Excel/Corolla/whatever and thinking they know how to drive... they go wrap themselves around a tree. At least somebody who say, likes RWD V8 cars, and learned to drive on a less powerful version of such a car (like a 175kW AU Forte V8... which would get hosed by a BF XT) would know how they behave, so that when they do get the powerful <insert vehicle here> they're a little bit more equipped to drive it well.

I feel the Victorian system (125kW/tonne and 3.5L/tonne) much more appropriate then the idiotism going on in NSW where a 100kW Volvo S40 Turbo, one of the safest cars in its class, is not allowed because it has a turbocharger on it.... but turn around and buy an 88kW 1997 Elise and its allowed because its N/A, even though it weighs 600kg and does 13.5's and aquaplanes because its so light with semi-slicks on it.

Going by the VIC system, P-Platers could at best get an AUII XR8 200kW. All the AUIII+ V8s and the BA/BF Turbo's are above that limit. That also counts them out of any LS1 Commodore, the best they could get being a 195kW 5.0 VT1.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Steffo

No you shouldn't give your son the keys to your 600hp car and say go have fun. However on the same token, why should he be forced to drive something with 60hp?

Perhaps you should be thankful you get to drive at all!

Why are there restrictions on people who want to ride a motorbike instead of a car? That system makes perfect sense to me.

[Bucket]

In NSW (the only state as far as i know) the RTA have a permit that will allow P plater's to drive cars that are outside the normal laws (no V8's/Turbo's) for reasons such as Job (i.e construction might use a V8 Ute) or your company gave you a Turbo car etc or it is the only car in the family. This permit came into act early last year. It does exist.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Perhaps you should be thankful you get to drive at all!

Why are there restrictions on people who want to ride a motorbike instead of a car? That system makes perfect sense to me.

Thankful? Driving should be a right! What is there to be thankful about, its a means of transportation! A necessity in Australia.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Thankful? Driving should be a right! What is there to be thankful about, its a means of transportation! A necessity in Australia.

A right...LOL...rights are something you are born with, not something you earn. I think the word you are looking for is privilege.

It might be a necessity to some, but there are other ways of getting around for those who stupid enough to think that powerful cars and inexperience are not potentially dangerous. If you can lower the risk then why not?!

There will be exceptions to every rule, but just because you were born with a steering wheel in your hands does not mean that you are exempt from a law/rule.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

A right...LOL...rights are something you are born with, not something you earn. I think the word you are looking for is privilege.

It might be a necessity to some, but there are other ways of getting around for those who stupid enough to think that powerful cars and inexperience are not potentially dangerous. If you can lower the risk then why not?!

There will be exceptions to every rule, but just because you were born with a steering wheel in your hands does not mean that you are exempt from a law/rule.

Just because the ones governing the states of this country have set it as a privilege of sorts does not mean that's the way it should be.

And please tell me where I have said that a powerful car and inexperience are not dangerous. There's a difference between banning an FPV F6 Typhoon because it can do a 12.7 and light up the rears at 110km/h in 6th and banning a Volvo S40 2.0T because it has a turbocharger on it. Catch my drift?

Oh and in quite a few countries driving is a right.

[XR8-260]

It would be interesting to see whether these car restriction laws are acutally working. VIC and NSW probably have way more deaths than WA or SA (which don't have any restrictions). I am aware of the population differences.