Skaife calls for Speed limit increases on Victorian Freeways...

[ED Classic]

Agree with the man for once

[burnz]

Originally Posted by russellw

Sadly, a gay, black, Muslim; holding a burning American flag at a KKK rally has more chance of making it than this proposal.

1. Victoria and NSW both expect to raise around $500 million each from speed cameras; WA about $120 million and SA/QLD around $100 million each. Let's call it $1.5 billion nationally. That's a lot of money and that is only from cameras.

2. After more than 40 years of chanting the "speed kills" mantra (even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary) it is unlikely that any government is going to do an about face.

3. Both Victoria and NSW are already considering further reductions to speed limits in the suburban arterials.

Cheers
Russ

i have to diagree russ.
cant speak for vic!!
but no such info and or facts support nsw, for reduction in speed and/or profits from speed cams.

the only profit that govco is making and a killing at, i might ad that is failure to keep left.
$250.00 per offence and last month i read 100,000+ booked, looking for link.

[Chilliman]

Finally Mark Skaife puts his massive snoz to good use and sticks his nose into the road safety debate with what are actually good ideas.

The government are so short sighted - they just want more revenue right now, ignoring how much road trauma costs the tax payer through the health system.

But if you put in more stringent licencing requirements that results in better drivers they would recoup more money at the front end with higher licencing fees and then save money at the back end with the drop in road trauma. Then they could use the savings to provide more public transport - some people should not be on the roads full stop; a more demanding licencing system would see to that!

[flappist]

How about parallel highways.

The Autobahn requires an advanced license, a medical, several years experience,a current technology performance car and a $100 toll.

All the caravans, trucks, 4WDs, VL turbos and anything else that does not have ABS, EBD, DSC and a current "certificate of suitability to go fast" can go on the other one.....

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by flappist

How about parallel highways.

The Autobahn requires an advanced license, a medical, several years experience,a current technology performance car and a $100 toll.

All the caravans, trucks, 4WDs, VL turbos and anything else that does not have ABS, EBD, DSC and a current "certificate of suitability to go fast" can go on the other one.....

And are you going to pay the trillions of dollars it would cost to make such roads?

[4Vman]

Unfortunately the Autobahn isnt what some people think it is..
The costs and prerequesites for its use would exclude most people in Australia from it if the same system was set-up here..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by davway

And are you going to pay the trillions of dollars it would cost to make such roads?

Mate, the amount of money the government makes from fines, all the roads in Australia should be made out of gold.

Why not have staged licenses like we have with P plates, for example, all the roads with higher speed limits, a driver not on that specific level of license isn't allowed to use it? To get that license you have to go through tests etc.

[zdcol71]

"Mind you all the test is, drive around town for 50 minutes and do a three point turn or reverse park. I did everything fine, except the only mistakes I made was I went 40 in a 50 zone because I was driving through what looked to be near a school. Also it ticked over 2:30 during my test and I just still just inside the school zone doing 60, no more than 5 seconds until I got out of it. That area is usually 60, but 2:30-4:00 it goes down to 40"
Sorry Damo.. that doesn't make much sense at all. If you were failed because you did 40 in a 50 zone ??,(I am going to have to say, man you were hard done by AND, if that is the ruling where you live, glad it is not QLD.) And secondly if you were doing 60 in a school zone, doesn't really matter wether it was 2 minutes late or 2 hours, if you are not of aware of what you should be doing, particularly when you are doing your test... mea culpe

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

"Mind you all the test is, drive around town for 50 minutes and do a three point turn or reverse park. I did everything fine, except the only mistakes I made was I went 40 in a 50 zone because I was driving through what looked to be near a school. Also it ticked over 2:30 during my test and I just still just inside the school zone doing 60, no more than 5 seconds until I got out of it. That area is usually 60, but 2:30-4:00 it goes down to 40"
Sorry Damo.. that doesn't make much sense at all. If you were failed because you did 40 in a 50 zone ??,(I am going to have to say, man you were hard done by AND, if that is the ruling where you live, glad it is not QLD.) And secondly if you were doing 60 in a school zone, doesn't really matter wether it was 2 minutes late or 2 hours, if you are not of aware of what you should be doing, particularly when you are doing your test... mea culpe

Nah mate, i got yelled at for it the 40 in 50 zone (which i thought was near a school but it wasn't), she didn't notice the 60km/h bit which was in an actual school zone, that would have been instant fail. The school zone goes for about 2-3km, I was right at the end of it, past the schools (which is normally 60km/h) that was because it tipped over from 2:29-2:30 before I got out of it.

[zdcol71]

"Also it ticked over 2:30 during my test and I just still just inside the school zone doing 60, no more than 5 seconds until I got out of it. That area is usually 60, but 2:30-4:00 it goes down to 40"
Man, if I'm a driving instructor... I'm going to yell at you too!!! "Here's a road sign... it says 40, ..but you can do whatever you feel is appropriate at whatever time you like"???

[flappist]

Originally Posted by davway

And are you going to pay the trillions of dollars it would cost to make such roads?

Yes of course I am, I am going to use the standard method, take it off YOU in tax......

[GK]

Originally Posted by russellw

Sadly, a gay, black, Muslim; holding a burning American flag at a KKK rally has more chance of making it than this proposal.
Cheers
Russ

Gold, but most certainly true!

GK

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Sorry Damo.. that doesn't make much sense at all. If you were failed because you did 40 in a 50 zone ??,(I am going to have to say, man you were hard done by AND, if that is the ruling where you live, glad it is not QLD.) And secondly if you were doing 60 in a school zone, doesn't really matter wether it was 2 minutes late or 2 hours, if you are not of aware of what you should be doing, particularly when you are doing your test... mea culpe

In victoria i believe it is a prerequisite that you stay within 5 km/h of the posted speed limit, that is you are allowed to be a maximum of 5km/h below the speed limit but if you fall below that you have 5 seconds to regain the speed so he wasn't actually hard done by. Also in regards to the 60 in a 40 zone, not everyones clock is set to the correct time so what's to say the vehicles clock wasn't slow but the testers watch was fast?

I know the limit is set for a reason and you have to obey during those times (As i do all time to the dismay of some other motorists) but there should be a few minutes discretion where the changeable speed signs aren't in use. This is where a bit of discretion could've been used.

Also having seen 2 seperate reports on the Skaife issue i think there's definetly a bit of bias in the media towards the governments position. This probably stems from the amount of advertising dollars the government puts into the mainstream networks.

Channel 10 have basically picked up some bloke that lost his daughter 5 years ago to discredit Marks position with a throwaway line of "Mark you've got some great ideas there, but speed kills"

Channel 7 started their story with something completely irrelevant to the issue, that being a head on crash between a truck and a car at 100km/h. I don't care what speed you're doing your chances of survival in a situation like that are pretty slim.

Looks like the government will sweep it under the carpet while discrediting Mark in the process. What a great state we live in where discussing an issue is not an option.

[Franco Cozzo]

I passed the test, which surprised me after the tester went mental, she went crazy and me and the instructor where thinking I was coming back for act II, but then she said I passed.

10km/h below the speed limit is instant fail I think under new rules. I'm not sure because not even the instructor knows the right rules, he said I was getting marked down for changing gear through intersections and inside roundabouts (supposed to stay in 1st through intersections and inside roundabouts?), but with other instructors said there is no problem?

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

10km/h below the speed limit is instant fail I'm quite sure under new rules.

Fair enough i'm pretty sure when i went 5 years ago it was 5km/h. Makes you wonder why it's been changed if infact i'm remembering correctly.

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm not sure because not even the instructor knows the right rules, he said I was getting marked down for changing gear through intersections and inside roundabouts (supposed to stay in 1st through intersections and inside roundabouts?), but with other instructors said there is no problem?

I know in the Victorian Heavy Vehicle test you're allowed to change up gears during a corner/intersection but not allowed to change down.

[Franco Cozzo]

Here we go, Skaifey on 7 article on now.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

In victoria i believe it is a prerequisite that you stay within 5 km/h of the posted speed limit, that is you are allowed to be a maximum of 5km/h below the speed limit but if you fall below that you have 5 seconds to regain the speed so he wasn't actually hard done by. Also in regards to the 60 in a 40 zone, not everyones clock is set to the correct time so what's to say the vehicles clock wasn't slow but the testers watch was fast?

I know the limit is set for a reason and you have to obey during those times (As i do all time to the dismay of some other motorists) but there should be a few minutes discretion where the changeable speed signs aren't in use. This is where a bit of discretion could've been used.

Also having seen 2 seperate reports on the Skaife issue i think there's definetly a bit of bias in the media towards the governments position. This probably stems from the amount of advertising dollars the government puts into the mainstream networks.

Channel 10 have basically picked up some bloke that lost his daughter 5 years ago to discredit Marks position with a throwaway line of "Mark you've got some great ideas there, but speed kills"

Channel 7 started their story with something completely irrelevant to the issue, that being a head on crash between a truck and a car at 100km/h. I don't care what speed you're doing your chances of survival in a situation like that are pretty slim.

Looks like the government will sweep it under the carpet while discrediting Mark in the process. What a great state we live in where discussing an issue is not an option.

Still would hate to think that all the effort I had put into my test was determined by the fact that what I was being tested on(legislation/ road rules) was dictacted and determined by the fact that my watch was set correct and the testers was wrong!!
And I guess things have changed quantum if my tester thought I should be faile for driving too slow in a school zone, as opposed to using an excuse like "my watch is out", to speed.

[4Vman]

Great segment, some comments and observations:

Its becoming very clear now that young drivers are NOT biologically acceptably "mature" until about 25.
Their over representation in serious crashes and fatalities is compelling.

If you accept this then you must also accept that all the warnings in the world isnt going to do much, they will naturally, through immaturity "stuff up" or push the limits, this then takes you to the natural conclusion that you can only "save" them by putting them in safer cars, improving roads and teaching them better car control.

This is the German experience..

In Australia we're still trying to curb or eliminate bad behaviour..

I think a mixture of both is needed..

The next progression is to provide a system that rewards and allows pre qualified "mature" drivers with 10 or more years full licence driving experience the opportunity to drive at higher speeds safely..

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Still would hate to think that all the effort I had put into my test was determined by the fact that what I was being tested on(legislation/ road rules) was dictacted and determined by the fact that my watch was set correct and the testers was wrong!!
And I guess things have changed quantum if my tester thought I should be faile for driving too slow in a school zone, as opposed to using an excuse like "my watch is out", to speed.

I'm not saying it's an excuse to speed (Where speeds limits are set there's no excuse to speed) but what i am saying is when variable speed signs are not in use a few minutes discretion could be used.

However having now seen the report i believe Mark is making some fantastic points and doing in a very plain, simple and easily understandle way. Of course as i said before it will be ignored by all that matter.

I hate to say it but Kudos to Mark Skaife.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Great segment, some comments and observations:

Its becoming very clear now that young drivers are NOT biologically acceptably "mature" until about 25.
Their over representation in serious crashes and fatalities is compelling.

If you accept this then you must also accept that all the warnings in the world isnt going to do much, they will naturally, through immaturity "stuff up" or push the limits, this then takes you to the natural conclusion that you can only "save" them by putting them in safer cars, improving roads and teaching them better car control.

This is the German experience..

In Australia we're still trying to curb or eliminate bad behaviour..

I think a mixture of both is needed..

$50 on P plates going from 18-25 now.

But yes I totally agree with Skaife on what he said, driver training her is rediculous if you could call it "training". Pay us $300 and drive around town for 50 minutes, I'll nitpick you at the end rather than explain what you did wrong and what to do.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

$50 on P plates going from 18-25 now.

Probably fair enough too..

[flappist]

Well after seeing the Skaife segment in Ch 7 I am now absolutely sure that almost everyone on this forum will be against ever raising speed limits.

Better newer cars on the road?

What happens to all the X or E series or AUs? Try and tell a T3, ELGT or XA-Z owner that his car is not as good as an FG.

Better training levels?

Try and tell anyone on here that they are not exceptional above average drivers.

No parental driver training?

Too much money. Dead kids are ok as long as it is cheap isn't it?

Better roads?

Too much money. Most people live in a city and never go anywhere and besides most of the arterial roads get destroyed by trucks, buses and other heavy vehicles.

Truthfully, how many here would allow all old cars removed from roads, be retested for their license regularly and mandatorily complete advanced driving courses just so they can go faster and be safer?

Bugger all..........

[Mz Revvv Head]

Ok, so old cars are an issue ...

No driver skills another issue ...

Parents teaching kids, yet another issue ...

In any situation, we can not put an adults head on kids shoulders !!!
If age of being more mature for girls is 23 & guys 25 then maybe this should be a starting point of making the L'S later than 16 yo ?

IMO a defensive driving course for any age is a MUST !!!

[silicon]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Here’s an article I found a little while back about the Newel.

http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/news...ou/1851770.aspx

You’re not wrong there.
Not only in suburban areas but other major highways as well. Here’s an article from the local Dubbo paper regarding the speed limit on the Mitchell highway.

http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/news/...a/1724717.aspx

What has happened here is Dr Soames Job (a psychologist, not an engineer) has decided that slowing the vehicles down will reduce the road toll. The RTA acts as a dictatorship and unfortunately actually has the power to play with road speed limits. In the case of the Newell Hwy it was basically already a 'done deal' to drop it to 100km/h without any consultation with the stakeholders at all. It was buried deeply in a report on the Newell Hwy. The report finally made public headlines; so the RTA started its public consultation bandwagon. So all of the local governments, NRMA and other stakeholders had their say but it was just a process to say that consultation had been conducted. They announced it was being dropped regardless and it happened on that date.

Now the Newell has just become a moving car park. The trucks are now frustrated and passing everything as the cars with the incorrectly from factory calibrated speedometers are driving along at 90-95 km/h. Driving this road is now worse than ever and very frustrating.

Last week the RTA were driving the Great Western and other major highways conducting road surveys ( in a bus of all things ) in order to basically start on reducing the other NSW major highway speed limits. The talk is the Great Western (Mitchell Hwy) will be dropped to 100 and sections to 90km/h around Bathurst/Orange etc. The speed drop will happen in due course and a lip sync public consultation service will be held either before or after (but it won't matter as they won't be listening to any stakeholders).

Also there is talk of dropping the rural default roads to 90 km/h. This means basically any road except a highway.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Does anyone have a solution for making sure peoples cars are safely capeable to do these speeds?

Maybe 3 or more lane freeways can have this speed but on singles and double lanes I think its a disaster waiting to happen.

By the way Skaifey we will never have the quality of cars allround like Europe never lone the roads.Some good points from him overall but alot of hurdles to overcome for this to ever come to fruition.

[4Vman]

Drop LCST would be a great start....

Make C63's more affordable.. :-)

[Franco Cozzo]

How about we start now, so three generations later the kids are on similar levels as the Germans are?

[pauljh74]

Skaife was referring to the Mill Park incident saying it was an older car - a BA Falcon isn't what I'd call old. The VR/VS is getting a bit long in the tooth, but not what I'd call too old.

The comment about our newest roads having excessively low limits was spot on. 80km/h from the tunnel to the Westgate bridge is ridiculous. Same with the the 80km/h limit all the way from High St on the east side.

There's been a brief mention already that Brumby has rejected the suggestion to raise speed limits

I think the motorway class roads could do with a 120km/h limit in off-peak at least.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

Skaife was referring to the Mill Park incident saying it was an older car - a BA Falcon isn't what I'd call old. The VR/VS is getting a bit long in the tooth, but not what I'd call too old.

The comment about our newest roads having excessively low limits was spot on. 80km/h from the tunnel to the Westgate bridge is ridiculous. Same with the the 80km/h limit all the way from High St on the east side.

There's been a brief mention already that Brumby has rejected the suggestion to raise speed limits

I think the motorway class roads could do with a 120km/h limit in off-peak at least.

With the amount of congestion and variations in speed of cars on our inner city freeways i cant see any sense in changing the limits, the tunnel to the westgate is a bottle neck that rarely see's the posted limit anyway, the ringroad is a nighmare and to be honest dangerous even at 100.
Its only the arterials leading away from the broader melb like the hume area that can safely tollerate higher speed limits.