Holden on the back foot for the first time in ages - Page 2

SSBUB · 21-12-2005, 11:15 PM

i would be suprised if they continue with the monaro - but it would be cool

BOSS 540 · 21-12-2005, 11:20 PM

'Ripper New VE Monaro again?, Povman, ute' etc..., well spread the news somewhere they care, like a holden forum.

Falcon Freak · 21-12-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

Good news....The VE article pretty much confirms that VE Wagon, Ute, Crewman and maybe even Monaro will go ahead.
Just goes to show what a load of sh1t some of those rumors were which were circulating a few months ago.

I'm very excited about the VE, it sounds like it's going to be a ripper.

Where did you hear this? The data I have seen shows that the VZ wagon will be built to at least the end of 2008.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

Yeah it was funny at first but you've done it to death to the point where it's starting to sound really lame. Get over it already.

_

The truth is never lame.

FF

Psycho Chicken · 21-12-2005, 11:58 PM

lol Monaro back?

Peter Brock/John Farnham/Holden Monaro last time (honest) tour 2006.

MethodX · 22-12-2005, 12:02 AM

That line about korea is getting mega old.
Ford - No boundaries, for South Africa or Thailand

VE Monaro and the VE is something Ford fans should care about as the competition improves the breed.

Dont want Ford to be stuck in the 80's again.

phillyc · 22-12-2005, 12:17 AM

Football, meatpies, kangaroos and holden cars.
Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and chevrolet...

It wasn't even holdens jingle.

As for the current dilemma, the replacement of the previous model Astra and Barina's (two good cars) with "newer", poorer designed, less refined, less capable and less reliable vehicles will takes it's toll.

Honestly, some people wont know the difference or what they are missing out on. Those who do, will buy a Fiesta. Also the sales of the new Holdens haven't been nearly as good as some suggested.

Falcon Freak · 22-12-2005, 12:28 AM

More Daewoo / Holden comparisson pictures added

FF

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

As for the current dilemma, the replacement of the previous model Astra and Barina's (two good cars) with "newer", poorer designed, less refined, less capable and less reliable vehicles will takes it's toll.

Are we forgetting the whole AH Astra range? What Holden are doing is giving customers a choice. If you want European quality and refinement you've got the more expensive Astra, if you're after a bugdet economy vehicle then you've got the Viva/Barina. Makes sense to me. People who buy budget small cars don't give a sh1t about things like refinement or handling. Look at the Excel when it was selling at $13990 drive away - it sold in droves.

And why do you think that the Daewoo built Barina/Viva will be any less reliable than the European Barina / old Astra. After all, they all use exactly the same engines, built by Holden in Melbourne.

ltd · 22-12-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

Yeah it was funny at first but you've done it to death to the point where it's starting to sound really lame. Get over it already.

_

On another note, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that the engines and various components of the Barina/Viva are made right here in Melbourne. So theoretically they have the most local content of any small car sold in Australia.

No, I haven't done it since October so get over to LS1 and complain there.

ltd · 22-12-2005, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

Good news....The VE article pretty much confirms that VE Wagon, Ute, Crewman and maybe even Monaro will go ahead.
Just goes to show what a load of sh1t some of those rumors were which were circulating a few months ago.

I'm very excited about the VE, it sounds like it's going to be a ripper.

Yes, because the Monaro has been such a runaway sales success in the USA, they decided to build it in the USA again.

Oh, and by the way; your idea of confirmation of the other vehicles is no certain thing, GM have yet to sign off on them. So the rumours are not yet disproven.

ltd · 22-12-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

And why do you think that the Daewoo built Barina/Viva will be any less reliable than the European Barina / old Astra. After all, they all use exactly the same engines, built by Holden in Melbourne.

That's the venerable Camira engine no?

SSBUB · 22-12-2005, 11:21 AM

camira hehehe...now that was a crappy car

vztrt · 22-12-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

maybe even Monaro will go ahead.

From what I read the monaro will be rebadged a HSV coupe.

Also that there will be a monaro but it'll be a rebadged GM from the states.

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

That's the venerable Camira engine no?

No, Camira engines were called Family II and were SOHC, the engines that go into the Astra, barina, Viva etc are a different engine which are DOHC and are codenamed CX18E or something similar.

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Oh, and by the way; your idea of confirmation of the other vehicles is no certain thing, GM have yet to sign off on them. So the rumours are not yet disproven.

I never said that they were 100% confirmed, but the article implies that they are almost certain to be approved.

Quote:

"Only the sedan is officially approved," he said. "These days there’s a complex product approval process, but ultimately everything’s approved out of Detroit. Let’s say the wagon and ute are not ‘unapproved’.

"Logically, if you were a betting man ... they’re both still very viable segments and they’re both certain to happen.

We'll just have to wait and see....

Falcon Freak · 22-12-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

No, Camira engines were called Family II and were SOHC, the engines that go into the Astra, barina, Viva etc are a different engine which are DOHC and are codenamed CX18E or something similar.

They may have DOHC and a different code. But they are still called Family II by Holden as they are based on the same SOHC design which were used in the Camira in the early 1980s. If you were to visit Holden's plant 16 where these engines are assembled you'd see the Family II name listed in many places.

FF

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

They may have DOHC and a different code. But they are still called Family II by Holden as they are based on the same SOHC design which were used in the Camira in the early 1980s. If you were to visit Holden's plant 16 where these engines are assembled you'd see the Family II name listed in many places.

FF

So what? I could say that the DOHC I6 in the BA/BF is based on the XD 250 crossflow.... Does that mean they have anything in common?

need psi · 22-12-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

Good news....The VE article pretty much confirms that VE Wagon, Ute, Crewman and maybe even Monaro will go ahead.
Just goes to show what a load of sh1t some of those rumors were which were circulating a few months ago.

I'm very excited about the VE, it sounds like it's going to be a ripper.

sorry to dissapoint you buddy there are no VE monaro's. as for a load of , i work at holdens, good mates of mine are the engineers there and they have said there are no plans for a monaro in the VE range, and are still unsure about the crappy crewmans too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Where did you hear this? The data I have seen shows that the VZ wagon will be built to at least the end of 2008.

the truth is never lame.

FF

the VE wagon will most probably start being built late 2006 or early 2007, it will be about 6 months after the release of the VE sedan in june/july.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Yes, because the Monaro has been such a runaway sales success in the USA, they decided to build it in the USA again.

Oh, and by the way; your idea of confirmation of the other vehicles is no certain thing, GM have yet to sign off on them. So the rumours are not yet disproven.

the gto's are more then likely going to be built in mexico and we wont be getting in AUS. there will be no right hand drives made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

lol Monaro back?

Peter Brock/John Farnham/Holden Monaro last time (honest) tour 2006.

hahahahaa^^^^

Ehab

Falcon Freak · 22-12-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

So what? I could say that the DOHC I6 in the BA/BF is based on the XD 250 crossflow.... Does that mean they have anything in common?

What under which rock did you crawl from? It is a well known fact that that the Ford in-line six design dates back many decades. What has this to do with Holden's Family II engine?

FF

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

What under which rock did you crawl from? It is a well known fact that that the Ford in-line six design dates back many decades. What has this to do with Holden's Family II engine?

FF

You don't get it do you? The Falcon I6 has nothing to to with the Family II engines, obviously. I used it as an example to make a point - Comparing the old Camira engines with the latest Family II engines is like comparing the XD I6 to the BA I6.

Falcon Freak · 22-12-2005, 05:13 PM

Looks like you need some lessons in reading and comprehension junior. You made the comment that the engines in the new Daewoo Holden models are not related to the Familly II engine in Camira. I pointed out to you that this is not correct. Then you fly off on a tangent by discussing Ford's in-line six cylinder engine.

A blind man could almost see that changes Holden has made to the Family II engine in the last 20+ years. Examples are introduction of DOHC and fuel injection which were not present on the JB Camira. HOWEVER the basic engine design is still the same and Holden still calls it the Family II engine.

Now go away.

FF

phillyc · 22-12-2005, 05:22 PM

Just reading DRIVE website.
Link to article http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/ar...f=7&bg=24&pp=6

The P76 Awards for outstanding mediocrity and a silver medalist was:

For seizing the Daewoo: Holden

Soon after taking over Daewoo in Australia, Holden closed it down. It seemed a wise decision, as Australians had comprehensively demonstrated they didn't want Daewoos at anything more than a giveaway price.

Then something odd happened: Holden decided the problem with the cars wasn't that they were boxy, flimsy, agricultural and without flair. No, the problem was that the little chrome badges didn't say Holden. The result? Two Daewoos cynically rebadged as the Holden Barina and Holden Viva, selling on nothing more than price and looking suspiciously, stop us if you've heard this before, boxy, flimsy, agricultural and without flair.

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 05:31 PM

Well Holden had to make do with what they had - the current Daewoo sourced models still had some time to run when GM took over Daewoo, so they could only do so much as was financially viable.
The next generation Barina/Viva will be GM designed (by Mike Simcoe I believe) and GM engineered, with substantial input by Holden engineers, meaning they will be much better cars, with the advantage of being built in a country where labour doesn't cost top dollar.

SSBUB · 22-12-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Just reading DRIVE website.
Link to article http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/ar...f=7&bg=24&pp=6

The P76 Awards for outstanding mediocrity and a silver medalist was:

For seizing the Daewoo: Holden

Soon after taking over Daewoo in Australia, Holden closed it down. It seemed a wise decision, as Australians had comprehensively demonstrated they didn't want Daewoos at anything more than a giveaway price.

Then something odd happened: Holden decided the problem with the cars wasn't that they were boxy, flimsy, agricultural and without flair. No, the problem was that the little chrome badges didn't say Holden. The result? Two Daewoos cynically rebadged as the Holden Barina and Holden Viva, selling on nothing more than price and looking suspiciously, stop us if you've heard this before, boxy, flimsy, agricultural and without flair.

a few more interesting tid bits, good article that one:
For clutching at straws: Ford

Just after our 2004 P76 awards, motoring journalists started reporting clutch problems with Ford Performance Vehicles' high-performance F6 Typhoon. Ford and FPV countered that there was absolutely no problem with the car and any faults lay squarely with driver abuse.

It was mere coincidence that the company soon recalled the 128 cars on the road and didn't re-release the model until May this year - with a modified clutch.

To his credit, FPV managing director David Flint said the incident "did highlight there was something wrong with our testing procedure. It will give us a much stronger process in the future."

* The only car in Subaru's Australian range not to benefit from side airbags is the fastest, most sports-oriented model: the WRX STi.

* Most outrageous option price? Maybe satellite navigation for the Audi A4 at $8500. Or those optional prancing horse decals on the guards of the Ferrari F430 Spider. Take a deep breath, they're $3500. Or then there's the Ferrari 612's matching luggage set: $40,000. The car is $650,000.

* Hyundai pitched its Getz model to television audiences to the tune Zippety Doo-Dah, best known to Australians as the jingle for Victa lawn-mower ads. A two-stroke of genius from ad-land.

* Ross McKenzie, head marketing honcho at Holden quipped that Saab was the company "with more models than customers". Saab is a sister brand of Holden. McKenzie is retiring at the end of the year. We'll miss his candour

sorry a bit OT, but just some interesting reading

:

vztrt · 22-12-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

* Hyundai pitched its Getz model to television audiences to the tune Zippety Doo-Dah, best known to Australians as the jingle for Victa lawn-mower ads. A two-stroke of genius from ad-land.

I thought that Hyundai's engines were two-stroke?

ltd · 22-12-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeestaNob!

I dearly wish I could buy a Tshirt with that slogan on it. Just a plain Tshirt like the "Worlds best Streetfighter" ones Toyota have.

That would be reaaal nice.

I know a screen printer, and we could put it on Korean made shirts too; for authenticity!

ltd · 22-12-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

You don't get it do you? The Falcon I6 has nothing to to with the Family II engines, obviously. I used it as an example to make a point - Comparing the old Camira engines with the latest Family II engines is like comparing the XD I6 to the BA I6.

True, but where I win and you lose is my camira comment got a laugh, and your XD BA comment received none.

Sucks to be you right now.

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

True, but where I win and you lose is my camira comment got a laugh, and your XD BA comment received none.

Sucks to be you right now.

Well I didn't write my post with the intention of providing amusement. I was simply trying to provide some reasonable points towards a constructive argument.

Listen to yourself - "I win, you lose" - It sounds like you have the mentality of a 5yo.

gmhdriver · 22-12-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS 540

Sucks to be you right now.
I lol all the time at team red members desperate attempts to fly the flag on a true blue site. Poor bogans just dont get it, maybe they think one day Ill have a brain explosion and drive a holden. Now that would be a joke..

The admin of this site have clearly stated many times that Holden members are quite welcome here.
Participating in and stating facts in a discussion is hardly what I would call a desperate attempt.
Yes, it is a Ford site, but the Holden threads on here are started by Ford members... so what is wrong with a Holden member having their say in these discussions?
Show me exactly where I tried desperately to convince you to buy a Holden?

And if you ever met me you would see that I am far from being a "bogan".

MethodX · 22-12-2005, 08:30 PM

Give it a rest all of u.

There are a lot worse cars you could drive than Holden.
Least they are Aussie (comparatively speaking) and make rear wheel drive V8's