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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#31 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,026
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For the record, circuit breaker protects the wiring in the wall, RCD protects humans.
RCBO is a combination of both circuit breaker and RCD, when you pay for a switchboard upgrade they usually put RCBOs in to replace old fuses or circuit breakers. Then you might have to pay extra when they trip all the time diagnosing issues with old appliances and earth leakage problems ![]() RCD monitors what's going in/out of the active and neutral wires, so if there's current going out the active and it's not all coming back through the neutral wire we've got a human in the circuit and we better cut the power. I think that's the gist of it anyway, real sparkies here to confirm. There's also sketchy bullshit with old houses and earthing through pipes in the ground that puts the fear of God into plumbers with earth faults, people getting tingles from taps and plumbers cutting pipes and becoming part of the circuit when they grab both sides of it or something. How good is electricity, kills people and you can't see it, you can certainly feel it though ![]() Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 20-01-2024 at 05:56 PM. |
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#32 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 996
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https://www.safetyquip.com.au/produc...screened-lead/
https://www.auselectronicsdirect.com...nd-up-reel-15a 15M Extension Board with Wind-up Reel - 15A Convenient 15m Extension Cable with 15A Plug and Sockets A convenient store and use extension cable with 3 pin 15A AC plug with extra large pin, 3 x 10A outlets and 1 x 15A outlet with a maximum loading of 3600W. Features a master On/off power switch, over temperature and overload protection. Heavy duty frame and easy to carry around with handle. Dimensions: 325x265x130mm I should add, the 10A plug should go into a 15A DETA outlet. I am not a big fan of shutters on outlets (but I understand why they are there). I often struggle with getting a darn 10A plug into a 10A socket. If you have any non-hydrocarbon silicone based grease, you can put a thin smear on the tips of the plug prongs. |
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#33 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
![]() Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 22,928
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Thanks muchly.
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regards Blue |
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#34 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,178
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I'll admit that this is not my area of expertise. But I do have some knowledge of the subject. I'm an electrical engineer (I can hear all you sparkies groaning right now ![]() ![]() And I also did a stack of research when I was setting up my 240v system for my camper trailer, and I specifically recall reading (perhaps as3001? ) that you can't plug in a 10a plug and lead into a 15a socket outlet at a caravan park so I ended up getting one of these https://www.discounttrader.com.au/pr...wer-block-box/. (that might help blue, but he probs won't need the ip54 rating) Perhaps that is what I'm thinking of. I don't have access to the standards at the moment, so I'll bug out until I get a chance to look at them, and chat to our electrical compliance officer next week. I'm not above admitting I've got it wrong, if that turns out to be the case, and I'll retract my previous posts if so.
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#35 | ||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,536
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Safety shutters built in gpo's are only there to stop children and big kids (adults) sticking objects into the slots, has nothing to do stopping using 10 amp leads into 15amp gpo's.
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#36 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,829
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In a similar vein, I’ve always agonised over whether it’s best to add the flour to the sugar, or the sugar to the flour when baking.
I liked the thorough posts here by whynot. |
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#37 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 996
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Never, ever, let the opportunity to ruffle the feathers of an electrical engineer go by ... (with a really big nudge and a wink).
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This AS3008 on-line calculator is a handy way to check. Tick the boxes for short-circuit current rating and loop impedance. https://www.jcalc.net/cable-sizing-calculator-as3008 While we are at it, there is also a legitimate way to connect a 15A plug into a 10A socket - provided - there is a 10A circuit breaker between the plug and socket. This limits the maximum draw to 10A, and so can be legally installed in the 10A outlet. A use case for this is when a caravan is parked at home and it just needs trickle supply for the fridge and maybe a few lights. As an aside, I started to write up a technique on how to correctly apply lubrication to a 15A outlet. But it started to read like a novel found at the back of the shop, and I though better of it. |
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#38 | ||||
Donating Member
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I had assumed, and perhaps incorrectly, that this requirement was based upon as3000 requirements and therefore applicable to blues case. It may be the case that this requirement is only required in the case of transportable structures and vehicles. Hope that clarifies the basis of my input.
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#39 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,475
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I always used this on a 10amp power outlet while testing faulty devices. That way the building's curcuit/fuse/breaker is isolated and protected in case the device pulled more than 10amps.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/114396538968 https://www.arlec.com.au/wp-content/files/PB94.pdf Make sure you get the genuine Arlec one. With other brands, you are playing with fire. I don't see why this cannot be plugged into a 15amp power outlet. Plugging 10amp into 15amp.. If the device is faulty, it could pull more than 10amps and won't break your buildings breaker or may cause fire. Hence the device. |
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#40 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,829
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I’m sure this belongs more in The Bar - it’s scarcely “General automotive related talk”.
![]() Nonetheless, it reminded me of this, where some of the “conclusions” suggested by the author raise an eyebrow. https://www.thehogring.com/2019/05/0...-airbag-seams/ |
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#41 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 22,928
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regards Blue |
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#42 | |||
The good, bad and fugly
![]() Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,797
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Don't worry about it sounding like a novel, you've made us accustomed to that already: lol
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Time was on my side! |
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#43 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 996
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Sorry that you don't like the detail. My view is that most people here are smart enough to read it and figure things out. If they are going to get confused, then lack of detail won't help either. Last edited by whynot; 22-01-2024 at 08:37 PM. |
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#44 | ||
The good, bad and fugly
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Posts: 1,797
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No harm done, were just all trying to help people in the best way possible with the knowledge we've all accumulated over the decades.
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Time was on my side! |
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#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,127
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It is ok to plug in 10A into 15A outlet . No issue whatsoever . 15A outlets you have are protected separately because they are dedicated circuits . You can only have one 15A outlet on one dedicated circuit in domestic installation.
Anything that you plug into those outlets does not necessarily pull rated outlet current at all or at all times . Last edited by SumoDog68; 22-01-2024 at 10:55 PM. |
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#46 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,536
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#47 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
![]() Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 22,928
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I received a message from another forum member yesterday that said in part:
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So I also emailed the Energy Safety Compliance Team at the WA at Building and Energy WA at be.energy@dmirs.wa.gov.au relaying the advice given from DETA via Bunnings Workshop Forum site and I was also assured that there is absolutely no issues at all with plugging a 10 amp plug into into 15 amp socket and it was perfectly safe to do so as basically the circuit is still protected and that a Australian 15A socket is meant to be designed to take both. The also said that they were puzzled as to why DETA would produce a 15amp socket that could not take a 10amp plug. So this certainly raises questions about the advice from DETA or even perhaps to what extent their products meets Australian standards.
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regards Blue |
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#48 | |||||||||||||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,111
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The source will supply as much current is demanded of it up to the capacity of the fuse or circuit breaker. Quote:
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speaking of which... Quote:
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The faulty device, however, may not cope so well. Quote:
Theres a reason no reputable electrical wholesaler stocks DETA. Ultimately, the quickest, easiest and most affordable answer to your question would be to use the shortest 15 amp extension lead you can find as an adapter.
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I dont care if some prius driving eco-hippy thinks its politically incorrect for me to drive a V8..... I'm paying for the fuel! |
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#49 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,536
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Cheers |
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#50 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
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Just to be clear the double 15amp outlet in my shed isn't a DETA one; it's a Voltex one (similar to this https://www.voltexelectrical.com.au/...-ip53-15a.aspx ) that was supplied by the electrician who installed it. DETA only came into the discussion as the Bunnings guys who run the Hardware Workshop consulted with them and HPM as outlined in my opening post. I must admit I also thought it was a DETA as it looks almost identical so it may have come out of the same Chinese factory.
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regards Blue Last edited by aussiblue; 24-01-2024 at 03:56 PM. |
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#51 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,419
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Hi. Is it worth finding out if the shutters can be removed as the description says they are for "maximum weather protection", They may not be required in your situation. I know we were able to take the safety shutters out of some old HPM gpo's to enable their use with non earthed equipment (things with no earth pin). Cheers MD
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#52 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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regards Blue |
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#53 | ||
The good, bad and fugly
![]() Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,797
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Well, did you lubricate your holes and try again?
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Time was on my side! |
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#54 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Edit. Deleted post.
Whoops. Apologies to Interceptor. It is me who should actually read the post correctly. Last edited by whynot; 24-01-2024 at 08:46 PM. |
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#55 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
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#56 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Quote:
My initial post was really mostly for awareness and discussion of what I though at the time, based on the Bunnings advice, was a newly discovered safety issue rather than solving a problem. Thanks for all the input and advice everyone.
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#57 | |||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I dont care if some prius driving eco-hippy thinks its politically incorrect for me to drive a V8..... I'm paying for the fuel! |
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#58 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,127
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There was no safety issue - best to stick with proven brands (Clipsal, HPM, Legrand etc.) No electrician i know would install Bunnings Deta or similar. Their advice is in the same category as their product . |
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#59 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Jan 2024
Posts: 3
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It's interesting to hear about the challenges with the 10-amp plugs in a 15-amp outlet. It sounds like the initial resistance might have been due to stiff shutters. Good to know that the situation seems to be improving with repeated use. If you decide to check for water ingress or corrosion, hopefully, everything looks good.
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#60 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,475
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That's exactly what I said. This is why you plug in that device (Portable Power Block With RCD Safety Switch) between your 10A device and the 15A or 10A outlet.
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