Ford petition for dodgy powershifts - Page 2

BENT_8 · 21-02-2019, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

I believe Ford have no legal obligation to kellyvb. She didn’t buy the car from Ford. She bought a 4 year old car. Under Australian consumer law the retailer is responsible for the product.
Despite this Ford are paying for repairs on the clutch and tcm for 10 years.
I’d say that’s more than reasonable.

I tend to agree with everything you've said here and to be honest I never thought for a minute that Ford would do anything other than offer to patch it up or at best make a wholesale offer on the car that they can recoup.
I said in the other thread that the best option would be to insure it and burn it, and whilst that was said tongue in cheek and I would never encourage or condone insurance fraud, the reality is that it would be the best outcome for the owner as the alternatives for people in this situation is a significant loss of money or an ongoing inconvenience.

BENT_8 · 21-02-2019, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au2000

Out of curiosity, would you own a power shift focus?

I wouldn't, but if you can drive a manual you'd be mad not to buy one as the auto's have given the whole Focus name such a bad rap that they all but give them away, so you end up with a solid late model good looking car without the headaches and for a fraction of the cost of a new one.

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I wouldn't, but if you can drive a manual you'd be mad not to buy one as the auto's have given the whole Focus name such a bad rap that they all but give them away, so you end up with a solid late model good looking car without the headaches and for a fraction of the cost of a new one.

Wish I could drive manual around here lol, I can only drive it up home in the country .

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

No I wouldn’t buy one. I wouldn’t buy any duel clutch auto. I don’t like how they drive.
I also would buy a diesel because the cost of repairs is too high. But out top 2 best selling vehicles in Australia are diesels.

I wouldn’t recommend any duel clutch auto. Even $500,000 sports cars have exactly the same problems.

I’m not downplaying any of the issues. I’m simply pointing out Ford has no legal obligation to the op. Of course I’m no lawyer and it’s just my opinion.

Also pointing out Ford continues to pay for replacement of clutches and tcm modules on cars that are many years out of factory warranty. Was VW so kind with dsg repairs? Plenty of people paying $12,000 for new dsg boxes.

Legally they are at fault and I can definitely see them being taken to federal court again in the near future.

They have permanently defected vehicles that cannot be permanently repaired.
And these issues are under consumer laws and under fords own customer charter classes as “major failures”. They threaten safety big time, and they can’t be permanently repaired. Under consumer law they should be offering the same outcome to anyone with one of these 75,000 crappy cars, that’s either a replacement or a refund and that’s not what’s happening.

They are legally obligated to supply safe cars and also cars to be up to standard to be used as normal everyday cars.

And the fact you say you wouldn’t buy one, that’s part of the customer charter... If I knew of these issues before I bought it, I would never of purchased it.
That is one of the points in the charter.

At first I was entitled to nothing according to ford and now I’m magically entitled to $9,200, it’ll be interesting to see what they come back with next lol.

https://www.accc.gov.au/publications...n-consumer-law

https://www.ford.com.au/content/dam/...ce_Charter.pdf

Top_Ghia · 22-02-2019, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

Legally they are at fault and I can definitely see them being taken to federal court again in the near future.

They have permanently defected vehicles that cannot be permanently repaired.

And these issues are under consumer laws and under fords own customer charter classes as “major failures”. They threaten safety big time, and they can’t be permanently repaired. Under consumer law they should be offering the same outcome to anyone with one of these 75,000 crappy cars, that’s either a replacement or a refund and that’s not what’s happening.

They are legally obligated to supply safe cars and also cars to be up to standard to be used as normal everyday cars.

And the fact you say you wouldn’t buy one, that’s part of the customer charter... If I knew of these issues before I bought it, I would never of purchased it.

That is one of the points in the charter.

At first I was entitled to nothing according to ford and now I’m magically entitled to $9,200, it’ll be interesting to see what they come back with next lol.

https://www.accc.gov.au/publications...n-consumer-law

https://www.ford.com.au/content/dam/...ce_Charter.pdf

What exactly is wrong with YOUR car?
Don’t say it’s dangerous or faulty. What specific faults does it have?
Did you purchase the car from Ford?

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

What exactly is wrong with YOUR car?
Don’t say it’s dangerous or faulty. What specific faults does it have?
Did you purchase the car from Ford?

No, I purchased my car from Nissan dealership, which is irrelevant because I’m not covered by consumer law if I bought it from an auction or a private sale, which of the two i did neither.

My car constantly has faulty clutches where it’s constantly shuddering on acceleration or hills. This shuddering has gotten so severe in majority of cases and also mine that the car needs new engine mounts, which I had to pay for even though this is due to the shuddering from FORDS defect.

The faulty TCM is the worst, because the car spontaneously does what it bloody well likes, spontaneously doesn’t recognise gears, so I could be accelerating and it doesn’t go anywhere, and then it decides it will go when I don’t want it to.

I’ve nearly been wiped out by a truck because of this, my car failed to recognise drive at an intersection.
My car has also spontaneously failed to recognise drive whilst I was doing 110kms down a fwy in which a car nearly rammed up my #%*#.
And on a 38 degree day I was stuck at the supermarket because my car decided it wouldn’t recognise reverse and I couldn’t get out of the car park, all of which happened with my one year old son in the car....

Top_Ghia · 22-02-2019, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

No, I purchased my car from Nissan dealership, which is irrelevant because I’m not covered by consumer law if I bought it from an auction or a private sale, which of the two i did neither.

My car constantly has faulty clutches where it’s constantly shuddering on acceleration or hills. This shuddering has gotten so severe in majority of cases and also mine that the car needs new engine mounts, which I had to pay for even though this is due to the shuddering from FORDS defect.

The faulty TCM is the worst, because the car spontaneously does what it bloody well likes, spontaneously doesn’t recognise gears, so I could be accelerating and it doesn’t go anywhere, and then it decides it will go when I don’t want it to.

I’ve nearly been wiped out by a truck because of this, my car failed to recognise drive at an intersection.

My car has also spontaneously failed to recognise drive whilst I was doing 110kms down a fwy in which a car nearly rammed up my #%*#.

And on a 38 degree day I was stuck at the supermarket because my car decided it wouldn’t recognise reverse and I couldn’t get out of the car park, all of which happened with my one year old son in the car....

What’s your vin number?

So under Australian consumer law the Nissan dealer is responsible for the car. You would be covered by a 3 month statutory warranty. After that you’d normally be on your own unless you purchased additional warranty at the time.
Engine mounts deteriorate on a lot of cars. It’s wear and tare.

BENT_8 · 22-02-2019, 07:16 AM

I guess the question that needs to be asked Is, has Ford already bought this example back from it's original owner?
See this is where it gets interesting, if Ford has already compensated for that car then how many times are they expected to do that for each example as time goes by, which is why I asked the question In the previous thread about what they do with them after buy back.
Technically they should be deregistered, but if they are using the secondhand market as a loophole to recoup the cost of buy back and this free's them of ongoing responsibility apart from warranty repairs it means you find yourself in this situation, you either settle for wholesale money which allows them to keep it on the merry go round or suffer the inconvenience.
They arent going to provide a new car as replacement for each subsequent owner.

What I dont get is why they dont retrofit them with a conventional 6sp auto and be done with, but that probably costs more than the PR backlash is worth

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

What’s your vin number?

So under Australian consumer law the Nissan dealer is responsible for the car. You would be covered by a 3 month statutory warranty. After that you’d normally be on your own unless you purchased additional warranty at the time.
Engine mounts deteriorate on a lot of cars. It’s wear and tare.

Mate, my car has done 50,000kms, it shouldn’t need constant engine mount replacements, and definitely when it’s driven in suburbs on pretty decent roads lol.

My VIN number has already been checked with ford and is one of the defected cars.

And I could hold the dealership I bought it from accountable as well as ford but that would mean taking them to court.

Ford are responsible, they make the defected cars.

CONSUMER GUARANTEES ON VEHICLES
Under the ACL, there are numerous consumer guarantees that apply to new and used vehicles sold to a consumer. Table 1 outlines the automatic, statutory consumer guarantees relating to the supply of vehicles.
Table 1: The consumer guarantees relating to the supply of vehicles
A supplier guarantees:*
A manufacturer guarantees:
• goods will be of acceptable quality**
• goods will be fit for any purpose disclosed before sale
• goods will match their description
• goods will match the sample or demonstration model
• they will honour any express warranties
• consumers have title to the goods
• consumers have undisturbed possession of the goods
• there are no undisclosed securities on the goods
• goods will be of acceptable quality**
• goods will match their description
• they will honour any express warranties
• they will make available repair facilities or spare parts for a reasonable time
* For the purpose of the ACL, the term ‘supplier’ refers to dealers. The term ‘supplier’ would also refer to a manufacturer if it sells or otherwise supplies vehicles directly to consumers, including via online platforms; this would be in addition to their inherent classification under the ACL as ‘manufacturers’.
** Goods are of acceptable quality if they are safe, durable and free from defects, are acceptable in appearance and finish and do everything that they are commonly used for (see page 11).

Major vs minor failures
When a vehicle fails to meet a consumer guarantee, your rights and your obligations to the vehicle owner depend on whether the failure is major or minor and whether you sold or otherwise supplied the vehicle to the consumer (e.g. see reference to ‘supplier’ in table 1 and table 2).
Major failures
A major failure to comply with the consumer guarantees includes the following:
• a reasonable consumer would not have bought the vehicle if they had known about the full extent of the problem. For example, no reasonable consumer would buy a new vehicle with so many recurring faults that the vehicle has spent more time off the road than on it because several qualified repairers have been unable to solve the problem
• the vehicle is significantly different from the description, sample or demonstration model shown to the consumer. For example, a consumer orders a vehicle with a diesel engine after test-driving the demonstration model, but the vehicle delivered has a petrol engine
• the vehicle is substantially unfit for its normal purpose and cannot easily be made fit within a reasonable time. For example, the engine of a vehicle with a stated towing capacity of 3500 kgs and normally used for towing, has a design flaw that cannot be easily fixed which causes it to overheat when it tows a load of more than 2500 kgs
• the vehicle is substantially unfit for a purpose that the consumer told the dealer about, and cannot easily be made fit within a reasonable time. For example, a vehicle does not have enough towing capacity to tow a consumer’s boat, despite the consumer telling the dealer
the specifications required to tow the boat
• the vehicle is unsafe. What is ‘unsafe’ will depend on the circumstances of each case. For example, a vehicle has faulty brakes that cause the vehicle to require a significantly greater braking distance than would be safe for normal use.
When there is a major failure to comply with a consumer guarantee, the consumer can choose to:
• reject the vehicle and choose a repair, refund or an identical replacement (or one of similar type and value if reasonably available) from whoever supplied the vehicle (e.g. the
dealer), or

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I guess the question that needs to be asked Is, has Ford already bought this example back from it's original owner?
See this is where it gets interesting, if Ford has already compensated for that car then how many times are they expected to do that for each example as time goes by, which is why I asked the question In the previous thread about what they do with them after buy back.
Technically they should be deregistered, but if they are using the secondhand market as a loophole to recoup the cost of buy back and this free's them of ongoing responsibility apart from warranty repairs it means you find yourself in this situation, you either settle for wholesale money which allows them to keep it on the merry go round or suffer the inconvenience.
They arent going to provide a new car as replacement for each subsequent owner.

What I dont get is why they dont retrofit them with a conventional 6sp auto and be done with, but that probably costs more than the PR backlash is worth

That’s exactly it, once ford have bought back the cars they should be crushed, they should not be allowed to sell these cars AGAIN to unsuspecting customers like myself and then the whole process happens again!
There’s so many people who’ve been given replacement vehicles, they’ve taken their car in to change over and literally the next day the lemon car is in their yard up for sale .

There’s already been injuries due to accidents from these cars, will they not realise until someone actually dies.

Every single person with one of these 75,000 cars should be given their refund or a new vehicle but for some reason it’s only happening for some and others are left with the stuffed vehicle.
And I never really thought about it that way, the possible reason for this is because maybe ford refuse to do anything with the cars they’ve already previously bought back but the costumer is oblivious to this....

Top_Ghia · 22-02-2019, 12:09 PM

I asked for your vin number so I could check the warranty history to see if your claims of constant repairs are true.

kevino · 22-02-2019, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

That’s exactly it, once ford have bought back the cars they should be crushed, they should not be allowed to sell these cars AGAIN to unsuspecting customers like myself and then the whole process happens again!
There’s so many people who’ve been given replacement vehicles, they’ve taken their car in to change over and literally the next day the lemon car is in their yard up for sale .

There’s already been injuries due to accidents from these cars, will they not realise until someone actually dies.

Every single person with one of these 75,000 cars should be given their refund or a new vehicle but for some reason it’s only happening for some and others are left with the stuffed vehicle.
And I never really thought about it that way, the possible reason for this is because maybe ford refuse to do anything with the cars they’ve already previously bought back but the costumer is oblivious to this....

Kelly vb -you took your car to a Ford dealer. Right?

They ''repaired'' the transmission. Right?

Its now or still not right and is faulty. Right?

Have you taken it back to the Ford dealer and asked then to re repair it?

What our local Ford dealer did to our powershift worked. But every time it faulted we took it back and they fixed it. Its been okay for 2 years now and is a rocket ship down at lower speeds through the gears for a 92 kw Fiesta.

I talked to an independent auto transmission repairer yesterday and he said this transmission can be fixed and then can be good for 160000kms. He also said that the TCM can be troublesome as you alluded to in an earlier post.

Surely you should be driving down to the dealer you had it repaired at and put some heat on them face to face using body language and facial expression to register your point. Take your son along and register that it is also his life that's being endangered.

Vesper Martini · 22-02-2019, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

No, I purchased my car from Nissan dealership,

My car constantly has faulty clutches where it’s constantly shuddering on acceleration or hills. This shuddering has gotten so severe in majority of cases and also mine that the car needs new engine mounts, which I had to pay for even though this is due to the shuddering from FORDS defect.

.

Can I ask how long after you purchased the car from the Nissan Dealership did it start experiencing the problems. as you would have had a 3 month warranty

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

I asked for your vin number so I could check the warranty history to see if your claims of constant repairs are true.

And how are you able to do that?

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevino

Kelly vb -you took your car to a Ford dealer. Right?

They ''repaired'' the transmission. Right? Yes, temporary fix because they can’t be repaired permanently

Its now or still not right and is faulty. Right? Yes, in under three weeks the cars starting to play up again.

Have you taken it back to the Ford dealer and asked then to re repair it? No, because I currently have a case open with ford.

What our local Ford dealer did to our powershift worked. But every time it faulted we took it back and they fixed it. Its been okay for 2 years now and is a rocket ship down at lower speeds through the gears for a 92 kw Fiesta.

Well please get your local ford dealer to give his magic fix to the rest in Australia because I don’t know one person who has managed to get a permanent fix, just continual repairing and replacing which isn’t what you take on when purchasing a car, people have kids, jobs, lives out of sitting at service centres every other week.

I talked to an independent auto transmission repairer yesterday and he said this transmission can be fixed and then can be good for 160000kms. He also said that the TCM can be troublesome as you alluded to in an earlier post.

Again my car has only done 50,000 and it’s already having numerous issues. If he claims he can fix my car permanently I would love his number!!
And yes the TCM in my personal opinion is a much bigger issue then the clutch, because the TCM is a ridiculously massive safety issue, it’s terrifying.

Surely you should be driving down to the dealer you had it repaired at and put some heat on them face to face using body language and facial expression to register your point. Take your son along and register that it is also his life that's being endangered.

Trust me, I’ve put heat everywhere I possibly can, and am continuing to do so given my case is open and in review with ford as we speak.
My son has already been into ford with me.

Ford are giving valuations for 2014 sport model focus’s of $4000, if there’s nothing wrong with these cars why are they giving such ridiculous evaluations. It doesn’t make any sense

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Can I ask how long after you purchased the car from the Nissan Dealership did it start experiencing the problems. as you would have had a 3 month warranty

Not long after the 3 month warranty ran out. Even then I thought it was normal the shuddering of the car, because it had been in for services and nothing had ever been mentioned.

Vesper Martini · 22-02-2019, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

Not long after the 3 month warranty ran out. Even then I thought it was normal the shuddering of the car, because it had been in for services and nothing had ever been mentioned.

It had been in for services, during the 3 month period, or after?
at the Nissan dealership or Ford?

BENT_8 · 22-02-2019, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

And I never really thought about it that way, the possible reason for this is because maybe ford refuse to do anything with the cars they’ve already previously bought back but the costumer is oblivious to this....

That's my point, if Ford have already compensated the original owner of this vehicle then they may have met the obligations required under the consumer law criteria, it could be that they have off loaded it through a Nissan dealer to separate themselves from the vehicle, the Nissan dealer may in fact be part of their wider group.
It appears to me that they will uphold the warranty terms, but if you want out all you're going to get from them is wholesale money which they know they can recover via on selling and so the wheel turns.
I doubt they'll ever come close to giving you what you paid for it because it would cost them more than lowballing you and keeping up the warranty for the remainder of years.

Its not about you to them, its about the lesser of 2 evils for the bean counters.

Bossxr8 · 22-02-2019, 02:40 PM

The car could also have been traded in to the Nissan dealership by the original owner.

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

It had been in for services, during the 3 month period, or after?
at the Nissan dealership or Ford?

After and at my local mechanic

Vesper Martini · 22-02-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The car could also have been traded in to the Nissan dealership by the original owner.

Much more likely, the cars bought back by Ford would end up being wholesaled

mostly picked up by Independent 2nd hand car dealerships

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

That's my point, if Ford have already compensated the original owner of this vehicle then they may have met the obligations required under the consumer law criteria, it could be that they have off loaded it through a Nissan dealer to separate themselves from the vehicle, the Nissan dealer may in fact be part of their wider group.
It appears to me that they will uphold the warranty terms, but if you want out all you're going to get from them is wholesale money which they know they can recover via on selling and so the wheel turns.
I doubt they'll ever come close to giving you what you paid for it because it would cost them more than lowballing you and keeping up the warranty for the remainder of years.

Its not about you to them, its about the lesser of 2 evils for the bean counters.

Yes but there’s plenty of people getting whole new cars or complete refunds, then some don’t. It’s like playing Russian roulette every time you open a case with them.

And they haven’t met their obligations because the cars should be taken off the road indefinitely because of the safety issues.
They now have an obligation to supply me with a remedy what ever that may be because even though I’m the cars second owner I still have my ACL rights to have purchased a safe and reliable car that’s not going to continuously break down.

The fact these cars are even aloud to be resold baffles me.
Let’s compenstae this owner, we get the car back, we resell it to an unsuspecting consumer, and then when they figure out what’s going on they open a case and it just keeps happening, it’s a vicious circle

BENT_8 · 22-02-2019, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The car could also have been traded in to the Nissan dealership by the original owner.

Did you missed the part where I said 'if'.

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Much more likely, the cars bought back by Ford would end up being wholesaled

mostly picked up by Independent 2nd hand car dealerships

Yeah my car was traded in at ford by the owner, I’ve spoken to him.

And the cars that are given back to ford once the owners have been compensated and then resold by that dealership that you’ve taken it to whilst dealing with your case through ford . Example, my case is being dealt with Via BAYFORD FORD EPPING, if I get told tomorrow that they’ll give me a new car, I take my old car back to them, and then they resell it

Vesper Martini · 22-02-2019, 03:36 PM

This gets more interesting You've spoke to the previous owner? how?
please post the VIN

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

This gets more interesting You've spoke to the previous owner? how?
please post the VIN

Why the hell would I supply you my VIN number, that makes absolutely no sense to me.

And yes I have, luckily for me he had a company sticker stuck on the back of the log book

Thanks for your input Bevsta

Vesper Martini · 22-02-2019, 04:23 PM

With the VIN someone will tell you the history.
But you have the Log book that's good so did it have previous history of clutch problems?

Smoke Pursuit · 22-02-2019, 04:43 PM

Sorry but you bought a second hand car. Ford really has no obligation to second hand buyers.

If you had bought it new they would have replaced it by now. Sorry but you will get no where. I'm surprised they offered you what they did.

The only people getting full refunds / replacements vehicles are people who purchased new or demo cars. Not used off Nissan dealers.

BENT_8 · 22-02-2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyvb

Yeah my car was traded in at ford by the owner, I’ve spoken to him.

Traded or bought back via compensation?

kellyvb · 22-02-2019, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Sorry but you bought a second hand car. Ford really has no obligation to second hand buyers.

If you had bought it new they would have replaced it by now. Sorry but you will get no where. I'm surprised they offered you what they did.

The only people getting full refunds / replacements vehicles are people who purchased new or demo cars. Not used off Nissan dealers.

Actually they do, I seem to be repeating myself here, I’ve already supplied the link to the ACL page where it states the rights I have.
If I had bought the car from auction or a private sale then yes I wouldn’t have any rights.

And there’s been plenty of people getting refunds or replacements that bought the car second hand so I’m unsure on where you’re getting that information from.
Maybe join the Fix my focus closed group on FB, that’ll give you more insight