Hands free phone's illegal!!

[ardei]

Originally Posted by flappist

According to guaranteed actual factual information I saw on A Current Affair, all EB1 falcon owners are hoons who drag race outside schools and speed in McDonalds car park....gotta be true...it was on TV and they showed a EB1 falcon, a school AND a Mcdonalds car park.......

My god you're up yourself! This guy did a fair dinkum assignment on the issue at hand and you treat it as if he watched the 6:30pm bullshit-a-thon on TV. It's not propaganda, it's research with first-hand investigations and studies for a University; and you dismiss it as if it's worthless garbage.

I'm not in complete disagreeance with the new laws, as long as it's with a handsfree and not holding the phone. I suppose you can drive steadily whilst on the handsfree but you've got to realise that you do not have your full driving ability. If you can't accept that, then you shouldn't be on the phone.

However I agree with the banning of ALL mobile phone usage (inc handsfree) for L & P-Platers in NSW from July 1st. Being a P Plater myself, I find that talking on the phone is very distracting - I only do it whilst driving on straight roads and that's after hanging up twice, yet the person persists to ring. As soon as I come to a turn I tell the person on the other end - "Cya, I'm taking a corner now" and hang up. It's just not worth it. And I have my wits about me, lots of other kids (and adults...and elderly people) do not and they start to drift over lanes, drive 20km/h under the speed limit, forget to brake - it's ridiculous!

Also, since I believe that when you're driving - YOU'RE DRIVING . Then nothing else should be in your hands than the steering wheel and the gearshifter. Driving is seen by too many people (particularly women and those that aren't interested in cars) as a chore that you learn how to do, just like ironing or cooking. So they try to combine everything thinking they're being "efficient." I personally would prefer these people to take the bus or the train or walk, but you don't always get what you want. If you want to eat and drink and smoke and talk on the phone and do your make up and not scan the road and not indicate and not keep with the traffic flow, then fine; but don't think you have the same diving ability and thought capacity as you would if you weren't doing that.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ardei

My god you're up yourself! This guy did a fair dinkum assignment on the issue at hand and you treat it as if he watched the 6:30pm bullshit-a-thon on TV. It's not propaganda, it's research with first-hand investigations and studies for a University; and you dismiss it as if it's worthless garbage.

I'm not in complete disagreeance with the new laws, as long as it's with a handsfree and not holding the phone. I suppose you can drive steadily whilst on the handsfree but you've got to realise that you do not have your full driving ability. If you can't accept that, then you shouldn't be on the phone.

However I agree with the banning of ALL mobile phone usage (inc handsfree) for L & P-Platers in NSW from July 1st. Being a P Plater myself, I find that talking on the phone is very distracting - I only do it whilst driving on straight roads and that's after hanging up twice, yet the person persists to ring. As soon as I come to a turn I tell the person on the other end - "Cya, I'm taking a corner now" and hang up. It's just not worth it. And I have my wits about me, lots of other kids (and adults...and elderly people) do not and they start to drift over lanes, drive 20km/h under the speed limit, forget to brake - it's ridiculous!

Also, since I believe that when you're driving - YOU'RE DRIVING . Then nothing else should be in your hands than the steering wheel and the gearshifter. Driving is seen by too many people (particularly women and those that aren't interested in cars) as a chore that you learn how to do, just like ironing or cooking. So they try to combine everything thinking they're being "efficient." I personally would prefer these people to take the bus or the train or walk, but you don't always get what you want. If you want to eat and drink and smoke and talk on the phone and do your make up and not scan the road and not indicate and not keep with the traffic flow, then fine; but don't think you have the same diving ability and thought capacity as you would if you weren't doing that.

When I was a school kid I did an assignment on how the dismissal of whitlam was a terrible thing because my teachers were lefties.
When I was at university I marched in "Right to March" and protested against Iwasaki because he was Japanese and they are all baddies.
I also remember university studies that told me smoking was not dangerous,there was no use for a computer in a private home and we would all be flying around in aircars by the year 2000.
I was young and believed this crap that was fed to me by academics. I thought I, like them, was always right because they are clever and at university. I later worked out that academics are people who go to school at the age of 5 and never leave......

On the other hand I have held a drivers licence for over 30 years, have driven several MILLION kilometres and operated a mobile phone in a vehicle on an almost daily basis while travelling 40-50,000km per year and have done so since before there was a cell phone system in Australia on the old IMTS. I have also driven and operated mobile phone while driving is several left RHD & LHD countries.
I also hold a pilots licence where the law is you MUST operate a radio while flying, in particular in controlled airspace which is the complex place to fly.

Now what is YOUR ACTUAL PERSONAL experience on this subject or are you just another keyboard warrior repeating other peoples dogma?

[Nashy86]

I'm not saying that the studies were right/wrong/anything, but I just want to note that they were carried out by global experts in their fields (ergonomics etc.) rather than academics from my uni, I came across them in my research of journals etc. so they have been assessed as having realistic & plausible results before they were published.

Lets keep this thread on the topic guys, I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on this because as has been said the studies are not always correct, and one of the biggest hurdles of implementing solutions (other than outright banning) is public opinion and public adoption of the solution.

[XR8Master]

I think that picking your nose is a biggie, that should definitely be banned, $250 fine and 3 points

[flappist]

Originally Posted by RustyEB1

I'm not saying that the studies were right/wrong/anything, but I just want to note that they were carried out by global experts in their fields (ergonomics etc.) rather than academics from my uni, I came across them in my research of journals etc. so they have been assessed as having realistic & plausible results before they were published.

Lets keep this thread on the topic guys, I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on this because as has been said the studies are not always correct, and one of the biggest hurdles of implementing solutions (other than outright banning) is public opinion and public adoption of the solution.

Exactly 100% right. The world is how it is and we must always concider that.
A magistrate has made an interpretation and ruled accordingly. This is not a court of record so it does not set a precedent for future cases and even if it did the law would just be reworded because it affects too many ordinary everyday working people who VOTE.

It does, however, really worry me that there appears to be an emerging mentality, particularly amongst the young, that the solution to all problems is to ban everything without really understanding the effect of the rest on society. Rights, once surrendered are seldom returned.

This is the path to the dark side..........

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by ardei

Also, since I believe that when you're driving - YOU'RE DRIVING . Then nothing else should be in your hands than the steering wheel and the gearshifter.

Are you really that incompetant of a driver?

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by flappist

I also hold a pilots licence where the law is you MUST operate a radio while flying, in particular in controlled airspace which is the complex place to fly.

Not many kids chasing a ball going to run out across the sky in front of you while you're talking to the control tower in the radio

[flappist]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Not many kids chasing a ball going to run out across the sky in front of you while you're talking to the control tower in the radio

No but large birds, idiots in ultralights, hang gliders, parachutes and lots of other things can appear while I am travelling at 300km/h in a big lump of aluminium containing 500 litres of rather flammable avgas just above a school, kindergarten, shopping centre or YOUR HOUSE.....

[Nashy86]

Originally Posted by flappist

I also hold a pilots licence where the law is you MUST operate a radio while flying, in particular in controlled airspace which is the complex place to fly.

Just out of interest, the talk on the radio is usually very brief questions and answers isn't it?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by RustyEB1

Just out of interest, the talk on the radio is usually very brief questions and answers isn't it?

Yes it is but it involves repeating back exactly what you are told to do or requesting more information and then writing it down on a piece of paper and possibly looking at charts while ensuring the aircraft remains right side up, on the correct heading, at the correct altitude or decent vector and the correct speed.
This is in 3 dimensions and there is no brake pedal.

On the other hand this is probably why it requires a lot more training and retesting every year or two (depending on class) than a drivers licence.

But this thread is not about aviation it is about cars and phones so we should keep it there.

[3vXT]

flappist you do make a pretty good argument but i have to disagree.
the bottom line for me is that, if i was walking across a pedestrian crossing and there was a car aproaching, i would rather the driver wasn't on the phone.

[Mongoose]

Flappist is my 2nd favourite hero now, right after James May from top gear

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ken2903

flappist you do make a pretty good argument but i have to disagree.
the bottom line for me is that, if i was walking across a pedestrian crossing and there was a car aproaching, i would rather the driver wasn't on the phone.

Well as the potential driver of that car I would prefer that you crossed the road on an overpass bridge or did not cross the road at all.

Unfortunately we all have to live together and life is dangerous. Would a very alert driver on the phone in a new vehicle fitted with all the safety goodies be more or less dangerous than a trainspotter in a GTHO or A9X enjoying the nirvana? Or a car full of young kids fighting? Where do we stop with the restrictions?

And what are you doing walking out on the road and just assuming the driver has seen you? Are you really THAT trusting? Really?
On a pedestrian crossing you have right of way but seldom attend the prosecution of driver after a fatal accident do you?

I work on the theory that everyone on the road is a homicidal maniac on drugs until proven different.......

[Nashy86]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes it is but it involves repeating back exactly what you are told to do or requesting more information and then writing it down on a piece of paper and possibly looking at charts while ensuring the aircraft remains right side up, on the correct heading, at the correct altitude or decent vector and the correct speed.
This is in 3 dimensions and there is no brake pedal.

On the other hand this is probably why it requires a lot more training and retesting every year or two (depending on class) than a drivers licence.

But this thread is not about aviation it is about cars and phones so we should keep it there.

agreed about keeping this thread about cars, I was just interested at how the pilot scenario applies to the reports I read for that assignment, especially since we did a lot of other work using planes as an example, such as the layout of instruments etc.

[Nashy86]

Originally Posted by flappist

Would a very alert driver on the phone in a new vehicle fitted with all the safety goodies be more or less dangerous than a trainspotter in a GTHO or A9X enjoying the nirvana?

As long as the driver is experienced in the vehicle they are driving, thats the important thing (according to the stuff we learned at uni & these reports)

If someone is driving an unfamiliar car they need to concentrate more on the small things like moving their foot the correct distance to get from accelerator to brake. If that distance is different to the distance in the car they are used to then in an emergency situation the brains automatic response is to move the distance they are used to/trained to, & may not hit the pedal cleanly etc.
On the other hand if they are concentrating more than they usually would on controlling the car because its unfamiliar then they have less resources available to dedicate to to the other tasks of driving and/or talking, so an alert driver on the phone in their own car can be significantly less dangerous than the same alert driver on the phone driving the work mule, or their brand new car for example.

Just another variable to add into the mix

[PepeLePew]

Ban it...

Business people may disagree, but sorry, IMHO anything you choose to distract you while you drive is in my humble opinion wrong. Music doesnt distract me, its background. Passengers I can ignore when I want to. But the state of mind a call can generate....

I used to take business calls while on the road, the worst I do now is look to see who it is on my Parrots display....I found when I was talking I went on autopilot and seriously could barely remember where I'd been when I was talking. I might have smoked something once that induced a similar effect

How many people do you see fumbling around for phones to answer them and press the right buttons to stick it on handsfree? Little is that important...driving is an important task to those around you that expect you to be concentrating on the road, your speed, cars entering, cars slowing, cars accelerating, dogs, cats, potholes, signs,....

On the other hand the WORSE case it taxi drivers that use their despatchers while driving....serious inattention....

Dont pull over, just dont take it. Thats what message bank is for. Pull over later when its safe if you must.

IMHO only, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[flappist]

I have an idea. Why don't we make people responsible for their decisions and actions rather than allow the blame to be put on others?

No, that means people would have to make decisions and cope with the ramifications and that would not be good for those who cannot do so.

After all everyone is equal aren't they????

[flappist]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Ban it...

Business people may disagree, but sorry, IMHO anything you choose to distract you while you drive is in my humble opinion wrong. Music doesnt distract me, its background. Passengers I can ignore when I want to. But the state of mind a call can generate....

I used to take business calls while on the road, the worst I do now is look to see who it is on my Parrots display....I found when I was talking I went on autopilot and seriously could barely remember where I'd been when I was talking. I might have smoked something once that induced a similar effect

How many people do you see fumbling around for phones to answer them and press the right buttons to stick it on handsfree? Little is that important...driving is an important task to those around you that expect you to be concentrating on the road, your speed, cars entering, cars slowing, cars accelerating, dogs, cats, potholes, signs,....

On the other hand the WORSE case it taxi drivers that use their despatchers while driving....serious inattention....

Dont pull over, just dont take it. Thats what message bank is for. Pull over later when its safe if you must.

IMHO only, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Ah, so if you can't do it no one can? Fair enough. My mum is 80 and can't drive at night or over about 50km/h anywhere. So therefore it would be only safe and fair to ban night driving and going 100km/h just in case someone else can't drive at night or over 50?

Or is this as silly as your arguement?

Basicly if a person finds themselves incapable of doing something then they should not do it. Banning things to dumb us all down to the same level is a foolish policy.

[Sourbastard]

to drive is to be distracted. Theres 1000 distractions, from girls in short skirts... to 200kg ex cons in short skirts. If you cant deal with a mobile phone conversation and not kill a 100 school girls(unintentionally), the phone isnt to blame. Your inadequacies as a driver are.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by ardei

My god you're up yourself! This guy did a fair dinkum assignment on the issue at hand and you treat it as if he watched the 6:30pm bullshit-a-thon on TV. It's not propaganda, it's research with first-hand investigations and studies for a University; and you dismiss it as if it's worthless garbage.

I'm not in complete disagreeance with the new laws, as long as it's with a handsfree and not holding the phone. I suppose you can drive steadily whilst on the handsfree but you've got to realise that you do not have your full driving ability. If you can't accept that, then you shouldn't be on the phone.

However I agree with the banning of ALL mobile phone usage (inc handsfree) for L & P-Platers in NSW from July 1st. Being a P Plater myself, I find that talking on the phone is very distracting - I only do it whilst driving on straight roads and that's after hanging up twice, yet the person persists to ring. As soon as I come to a turn I tell the person on the other end - "Cya, I'm taking a corner now" and hang up. It's just not worth it. And I have my wits about me, lots of other kids (and adults...and elderly people) do not and they start to drift over lanes, drive 20km/h under the speed limit, forget to brake - it's ridiculous!

Also, since I believe that when you're driving - YOU'RE DRIVING . Then nothing else should be in your hands than the steering wheel and the gearshifter. Driving is seen by too many people (particularly women and those that aren't interested in cars) as a chore that you learn how to do, just like ironing or cooking. So they try to combine everything thinking they're being "efficient." I personally would prefer these people to take the bus or the train or walk, but you don't always get what you want. If you want to eat and drink and smoke and talk on the phone and do your make up and not scan the road and not indicate and not keep with the traffic flow, then fine; but don't think you have the same diving ability and thought capacity as you would if you weren't doing that.

This is why you have a handsfree carkit, then you have nothing in your hands.

Ive had handsfree carkits in all my cars since the day i started to drive and will continue to have them till the day they die, and yes i have the proper NOKIA cradle thats hard wired into the car, and i never feel distracted, its no different to talking to your passenger....

Talk about SLOW and ARROGANT...

[Nashy86]

One proposed solution I've seen, integrated the phone into the car and used in-car systems like active cruise control and heading control to monitor the environment, such as where the cars around you and where you are on the road, as well as GPS to identify the road and therefore the type of road you are on (freeway, rural, city etc.) to make a judgment of the amount of strain on the driver. The prototype system also measured the heart rate and a few other things on the driver which would not be as practical in the real world, but if the car system decided that the workload on the driver was above a certain limit, then it blocked incoming phone calls, and if the workload was determined as being low the car allowed the calls to come in.

Obviously there are a number of issues with this, such as the fact that not every driver is the same, but any other thoughts on the implementation of a system such as this? Good/Bad idea?

Just to re-iterate its not my idea, it was a system that was designed by "experts" and has been used for experiments, so if you want to flame it, flame the idea, don't flame me :

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ah, so if you can't do it no one can? Fair enough. My mum is 80 and can't drive at night or over about 50km/h anywhere. So therefore it would be only safe and fair to ban night driving and going 100km/h just in case someone else can't drive at night or over 50?

Or is this as silly as your arguement?

Basicly if a person finds themselves incapable of doing something then they should not do it. Banning things to dumb us all down to the same level is a foolish policy.

Plenty of sensible people mate, and Im sure you are, but from what Ive seen there are too many idiots not to take some sort of action. I've had TWO sep accidents with people hitting me from such inattention. Hence I might be a bit strong on the subject.

Im a decent, safe driver, but I never assume Im superhuman and can focus on more than one thing at a time. I am, after all, not a woman

I'd prefer a ban than see people doing dumb things every damn day. We used to live without these things, and if they went tomorrow I personally wouldnt miss them. But time isnt money for me and I dont run my own business.

Im NOT aiming my comments at you, but you cannot deny there are a helluva lot of people out there not doing the right thing that dont have your skills. Actually when the phone rings I dont think they ask themselves whether they do or dont.

If everyone was sensible as you, and I respect your opinion, it'd be a perfect world, but it isnt.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Plenty of sensible people mate, and Im sure you are, but from what Ive seen there are too many idiots not to take some sort of action. I've had TWO sep accidents with people hitting me from such inattention. Hence I might be a bit strong on the subject.

Im a decent, safe driver, but I never assume Im superhuman and can focus on more than one thing at a time. I am, after all, not a woman

I'd prefer a ban than see people doing dumb things every damn day. We used to live without these things, and if they went tomorrow I personally wouldnt miss them. But time isnt money for me and I dont run my own business.

Im NOT aiming my comments at you, but you cannot deny there are a helluva lot of people out there not doing the right thing that dont have your skills. Actually when the phone rings I dont think they ask themselves whether they do or dont.

If everyone was sensible as you, and I respect your opinion, it'd be a perfect world, but it isnt.

Perhaps, but im sure if you were nearly dead on the side of a highway out in the middle of no where you'd appreciate your mobile.

There are plenty of people who still use mobiles and hold them up to their ear, and these people should lose their licences on the spot, as it is illegal, however using a handsfree car kit is LEGAL and as far as im concerned will be for a long time to come as they won't be able to prove if your using it or not.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Perhaps, but im sure if you were nearly dead on the side of a highway out in the middle of no where you'd appreciate your mobile.

There are plenty of people who still use mobiles and hold them up to their ear, and these people should lose their licences on the spot, as it is illegal, however using a handsfree car kit is LEGAL and as far as im concerned will be for a long time to come as they won't be able to prove if your using it or not.

hehehe sorry, I didnt mean EVERYONE should live without them, I was dwelling in my slavery to the workplace these days just to give that comment a bit of context

I shouldve said I wouldnt miss my WORK mobile Sheez and I've only had two beers tonight

[Smoke Pursuit]

Thats fair enough, i wouldnt miss my work mobile either, but no mobile = no cash = no expensive cars = no fun...

PS how are my tail lights going, looking after them :

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Thats fair enough, i wouldnt miss my work mobile either, but no mobile = no cash = no expensive cars = no fun...

PS how are my tail lights going, looking after them :

Long as they dont ban taillight changes from factory standard, there will be a market for lovely items like yours

Work mobile = unpaid slavery. If I had my own business Id protect it with my life likely

[flappist]

Another point that might be pertinent. Most of my distance driving is in the early morning or evening. I actually use the phone to keep me alert rather than listen to some idiot on the radio for 4 hours.
Prior to mobile phones my day consisted of 2 or 3 hours on the landline and then blast off to the jobs. As time was important I used to go quite fast everywhere( 150-180km/h on the highway, drove a radar invisible car, a S2 RX7 and had a radar detector. N.B. this was 1985-87 and Australia was a very different place.

So for me personally, the mobile phone has slowed me down and kept me alert and therefore alive.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by flappist

Another point that might be pertinent. Most of my distance driving is in the early morning or evening. I actually use the phone to keep me alert rather than listen to some idiot on the radio for 4 hours.
Prior to mobile phones my day consisted of 2 or 3 hours on the landline and then blast off to the jobs. As time was important I used to go quite fast everywhere( 150-180km/h on the highway, drove a radar invisible car, a S2 RX7 and had a radar detector. N.B. this was 1985-87 and Australia was a very different place.

So for me personally, the mobile phone has slowed me down and kept me alert and therefore alive.

Mate I can understand why you'd have a passionate opinion on the subject, and I apologise for not considering your viewpoint in my opinion. I hadnt really thought of such a circumstance.

Bans are BS, and ARE usually aimed at the minority of idiots. Its people like yourself that would suffer from their actions. God help the poli that picked up this issue though....

I DO wish someone would address those bloody cabbies and their despatchers though!!!!

[kyro_02]

well, i'm not sure how they'll enforce it.. because some people have a habit using 1 hand to drive... like me. not because it's "COOL!!!" but because it's more comfortable. will they assume you were reaching to answer your mobile ?

that's funny, ... in vic. you have to always look at your speedo because "every k' over is a killa"; also the 3kph tollerence to easy to go over.. talk about distraction. and now with the time-over-distance... ohh deary me... sometimes you love to hate the government.

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

however using a handsfree car kit is LEGAL

Where in any document is this written?