Stop signs

[Silver Ghia]

Agreed that stop signs are unnecessary. At a give way sign you need to give way to any vehicles travelling along the intersecting road, so what's the point in having to stop? You need to look for vehicles so to give way to them, and if you cant see properly because of obstructions like trees or signs, you need to stop anyway.

At the exit to my housing estate, years ago there was a stop sign at the T intersection when turning onto the main road. The fact there is a heritage tree there (it cant be chopped down unless its ready to fall down and kill someone) blocking the view of anyone stopping at the stop line, it was argued it was unsafe to have that stop sign there and was subsequently changed to a Give Way sign. Common sense prevailed for once! Now drivers can creep forward to look for cars coming.

The Somerton Rd Stop sign when turning left into Wildwood Rd at Bulla is a classic, where there is clear visibility to any vehicles travelling from the right when turning left into Wildwood Rd, and I've never seen anyone stop there, especially in peak hour traffic. There is no point in having to stop, so why not have a Give Way sign there instead of the Stop sign?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

As a formerLicence Testing Officer with the Motor Vehicle Registry (NT) I can assure you that it is not just parents who have a weird idea of the rules. I have no idea how many students I failed from one particular driving school who taught their students that, and I quote "don't bother stopping at a stop sign if there are no vehicles coming".

Ten years of Defensive Driver Instructing also, I always made sure the students stopped completely before moving off.

Also, to the best of my knowledge of the Australian Road rules, you must stop forward movement behind the solid line of a stop sign. there is nothing there about how long you need to be still for. HTH


Cheers Vincenzo

Kyneton VicRoads is a doozie, theres a stop sign on the exit driveway, and a solid line across the road to signify stop.

So many people fail their license test in the first 15 seconds

[Tassie f100]

Re the 3 second stop time.It was originaly the time required to stop and change a non synchro gearbox into 1st gear so the 3 second time is a furphy

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Agreed that stop signs are unnecessary. At a give way sign you need to give way to any vehicles travelling along the intersecting road, so what's the point in having to stop? You need to look for vehicles so to give way to them, and if you cant see properly because of obstructions like trees or signs, you need to stop anyway.

A Stop Sign warns you you're approaching an intersection where the sight distance is poor.

Whether it is a curved road where other vehicles will quickly appear or you are entering fast flowing traffic from a T-Intersection or whatever un-sights you.

It’s better to be fore warned than to find out when you get there.

The alternative is for everyone rolling up to a Give Way Sign in an unknown area to either stop when they don't need to because they don’t know what they’ll encounter or everyone sailing through and T-Bones become the biggest killer of Australian car drivers and passengers.

Stop signs definitely have a place as a traffic aid as do Give Way Signs and both have their own unique importance.

The fact some aren’t necessarily 100% suited only proves the intersection was marginal and the designer possibly erred on the side of safety.





When a traffic device is installed it is done with the joint approval of the Council, Police, Buses, Fire Bridge and sometimes the RTA.

Every traffic device goes through a study, report, recommendation and a pow wow before being approved.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

A Stop Sign warns you you're approaching an intersection where the sight distance is poor.

Whether it is a curved road where other vehicles will quickly appear or you are entering fast flowing traffic from a T-Intersection or whatever un-sights you.

It’s better to be fore warned than to find out when you get there.

The alternative is for everyone rolling up to a Give Way Sign in an unknown area to either stop when they don't need to because they don’t know what they’ll encounter or everyone sailing through and T-Bones become the biggest killer of Australian car drivers and passengers.

Stop signs definitely have a place as a traffic aid as do Give Way Signs and both have their own unique importance.

The fact some aren’t necessarily 100% suited only proves the intersection was marginal and the designer possibly erred on the side of safety.

3]Every traffic device goes through a study, report, recommendation and a pow wow before being approved. [/SIZE][/FONT]

So going by that logic, drivers may place less importance when facing Give Way signs, than when facing Stop signs.

Intersections with Give Way signs should be treated with the same caution as if there was a Stop sign. Giving way means just that. Regardless of traffic on the intersecting road, or visibility conditions.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Agreed that stop signs are unnecessary. At a give way sign you need to give way to any vehicles travelling along the intersecting road, so what's the point in having to stop? You need to look for vehicles so to give way to them, and if you cant see properly because of obstructions like trees or signs, you need to stop anyway.

Unfortunately there are many, as noted in this thread, that don't stop at a stop sign, so we don't have much hope of them giving way.............or in some cases even checking cross streets

A stop sign goes a little way towards getting these people to actually look before charging through

[commodorenutt]

In 2006 I had a 3 week old company car. Wife took it to the shops. Less than 30 second after she left, the phone rang - come up the road, had a prang.

The tradie went straight through the stop sign at the crossroad near home. She saw him coming too fast to be even thinking about stopping, and braked hard, but it couldn't stop in time. She thought if she didn't stop, he'd be in the driver's door of the car. The step on his tray did most of the damage - wiping the front of the car over a few inches ($5K damage).

When I asked him why he didn't even look like he was planning to stop at the stop sign, his answer was "oh I had a tough day, and I couldn't be bothered stopping"

Rang the cops, but they don't attend unless someone's injured or (back then) if a tow was needed, but both vehicles were still drive-able, and even though I told them he smelt like he'd probably had the best part of a 6 pack, they weren't interested in coming out. Would have been an instant ticket for him, as we also had independent witnesses.

2 weeks later he rang me to abuse me about my insurance company chasing him for money - he didn't want to claim on his insurance, as he had a $2.5K excess (which is probably a clue to how many times he "couldn't be bothered stopping" and had other accidents).

But that's the sort of idiots we have to share the road with...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Kyneton VicRoads is a doozie, theres a stop sign on the exit driveway, and a solid line across the road to signify stop.

So many people fail their license test in the first 15 seconds

Beverly Hills RMS here in Sydney is the same. Dozens of people failed their test before hitting the road due to not stopping at the exit of the driveway.

I noticed that they now have a notice near the stop sign saying 'your driving test starts from the carpark' (or similar). They must have got some flack from all the people they instantly failed for not stopping.

[commodorenutt]

I've seen a few of them with a large native bush also concealing the stop sign - so you have to rely on the line on the road. A few years back our neighbour (retired cabbie, with a very good driving record) had to sit his annual test at the grand old age of 88. They failed him because he rolled through it, not realising. Poor bugger had to put L-plates on his car and have his wife as the "supervisor" even though she hadn't driven for 20 years (but just kept renewing her licence).

I noted when I went in there a few months back to collect some new plates, that the bush in question is now just a stump. I'm wondering if it was done by a disgruntled "customer" or if they actually came to their senses and asked the maintenance guys to trim it back)

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Unfortunately there are many, as noted in this thread, that don't stop at a stop sign...

You know how it is - can't believe everything your read these days...including Stop signs!!!

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

So going by that logic, drivers may place less importance when facing Give Way signs, than when facing Stop signs.

Intersections with Give Way signs should be treated with the same caution as if there was a Stop sign. Giving way means just that. Regardless of traffic on the intersecting road, or visibility conditions.

Both signs require the same amount of importance as do all road rules.

Give way at a Give Way sign and stop at a Stop sign.

They are two different regulations for two different situations.

If you wants to read something else into it or don’t understand the road rules than you are the problem not the signs.

[Lunch]

i know ive at least partially assessed the situation/intersection upon approach, at intersections where i cant see, i stop and look but not because a sign tells me to, because i need to, i dont always need 3 seconds to see if theres any traffic. I think its good practice for people learning to drive but for others with many years of experience im sure they should be competent enough to make that call themselves and if they arent, then maybe thats the issue that need to be addressed.

[Bushbasher]

I think the overall lax attitude to stop signs is indicative of the overall lax attitude alot of the younger generation have, by that I mean the under 35s', to authority in general. It starts in school when they learn that they can get away with just about anything short of GBH with nothing more than a stern talking to at best, so have a complete lack of respect for authority and anyone they disagree with in general.
Give parents and teachers back the ability to give a ratbag child a swift kick in the behind when they step over the line and I believe kids would grow up with a bit more respect for everyone and everything around them. This would translate into less flouting of formal and informal rules and laws that we all live by as well as less agression as a first response.

I'm sure there's those that will disagree but I know a quick clip round the ear didn't do me any harm when I was young and the same has worked on my kids who are respectful of others and don't start fights or flout rules, unlike a couple of the ratbags at the small school they go to.

I teach my kids that agression is the last resort; never start fights and talk your way out of a fight if you can.

but if the fight comes to you and you have no choice, then make sure you FINISH the fight.

[mik]

I suppose some people take a route commonly that they may not see dangerous manouvres, personally i like stop signs making people pull up and take a good hard look for traffic coming both ways, not in all circumstances, but where it's a danger area and give aways don't do the job.
my local area has a long service road running adjacent to a 6 lane main Rd, travelling down the service Rd and seeing boofheads shoot straight across the service Rd without even a second glance,
over the 15 years I've been in the area I've learnt to approach crossroads at these areas very very carefully and just nose up to them at less than walking pace because on several occasions these knob noses have come close to cleaning me up.
I could also mention the ****heads that do right turn and come across onto the wrong side of the road. ..... maybe we'll save that for another day.

[BLDNUT01]

interesting I just thought you had to come to a complete stop was never taught by driving instructor to wait 3 sec but that was 20yr ago in SA

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Was (still is???) 3 seconds in NSW.

The 3 seconds could be: look left, look right, look left again.
I guess there's no point stopping if there's no looking happening

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

As a formerLicence Testing Officer with the Motor Vehicle Registry (NT) I can assure you that it is not just parents who have a weird idea of the rules. I have no idea how many students I failed from one particular driving school who taught their students that, and I quote "don't bother stopping at a stop sign if there are no vehicles coming".

Ten years of Defensive Driver Instructing also, I always made sure the students stopped completely before moving off.

Also, to the best of my knowledge of the Australian Road rules, you must stop forward movement behind the solid line of a stop sign. there is nothing there about how long you need to be still for. HTH


Cheers Vincenzo

A full and complete stop as close as possible to the white line is all that is required.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

I think the overall lax attitude to stop signs is indicative of the overall lax attitude alot of the younger generation have, by that I mean the under 35s', to authority in general. It starts in school when they learn that they can get away with just about anything short of GBH with nothing more than a stern talking to at best, so have a complete lack of respect for authority and anyone they disagree with in general.
Give parents and teachers back the ability to give a ratbag child a swift kick in the behind when they step over the line and I believe kids would grow up with a bit more respect for everyone and everything around them. This would translate into less flouting of formal and informal rules and laws that we all live by as well as less agression as a first response.

I'm sure there's those that will disagree but I know a quick clip round the ear didn't do me any harm when I was young and the same has worked on my kids who are respectful of others and don't start fights or flout rules, unlike a couple of the ratbags at the small school they go to.

I teach my kids that agression is the last resort; never start fights and talk your way out of a fight if you can.

but if the fight comes to you and you have no choice, then make sure you FINISH the fight.

I agree with you, many people believe that you can't discipline with a clip around the ear or a smack but that depends on where you live, below is a snapshot of the Current NT Criminal Code:

(27) Circumstances in which force not being such force as is likely to cause death or serious harm is justified.

In the circumstances following, the application of force is justified provided it is not unnecessary force and it is not intended and is not such as is likely to cause death or serious harm:

(p) In the case of a parent or guardian of a child, or a person in the place of such parent or guardian, to discipline, manage or control such child;

[V8 Ghia Mike]

I always stop. I make sure to stop for a few seconds because I'm a precision driving Nazi and especially when there is an impatient little Holden driving **** behind me.

Edit: Wow, even the word spelled T U R D is blocked here!!!

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

Isn't and never was 3 seconds. People say 3 seconds as a way of confirming you have stopped.

the law says you must come to a 'complete stop'

[irvinnie]

Ex highway patrol, no requirement to stop for three seconds, only required to come to a stop and then give way to any traffic. Here is the relevant NSW road rules section for those that want some assistance in sleeping.

New South Wales Consolidated Regulations

[Index] [Table] [Search] [Search this Regulation] [Notes] [Noteup] [Previous] [Next] [Download] [Help]
ROAD RULES 2014 - REG 67

Stopping and giving way at a stop sign or stop line at an intersection without traffic lights
67 Stopping and giving way at a stop sign or stop line at an intersection without traffic lights

(1) A driver at an intersection with a stop sign or stop line, but without traffic lights, must stop and give way in accordance with this rule.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Note 1 :
"Intersection" and
"stop line" are defined in the Dictionary. This rule applies also to T-intersections-see the definition of
"intersection" .
Note 2 : For this rule,
"give way" means the driver must remain stationary until it is safe for the driver to proceed-see the definition in the Dictionary.
Note 3 : Part 6 deals with stopping and giving way at an intersection with traffic lights.
Note 4 : This rule only applies to a driver turning left using a slip lane if the stop sign or stop line applies to the slip lane-see Part 20, Divisions 2 and 3, especially rules 330 and 345.
(2) The driver must stop as near as practicable to, but before reaching:
(a) the stop line, or
(b) if there is no stop line-the intersection.
(3) The driver must give way to a vehicle in, entering or approaching the intersection except:
(a) an oncoming vehicle turning right at the intersection if a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line applies to the driver of the oncoming vehicle, or
(b) a vehicle turning left at the intersection using a slip lane, or
(c) a vehicle making a U-turn.
Note :
"Enter" ,
"give way line" ,
"oncoming vehicle" ,
"slip lane" and
"U-turn" are defined in the Dictionary.
(4) If the driver is turning left or right or making a U-turn, the driver must also give way to any pedestrian at or near the intersection who is crossing the road, or part of the road, the driver is entering.
Note : Rule 353 (1) specifies that a driver is not required to give way to a pedestrian who is crossing the road that the driver is leaving, and rule 353 (2) provides that a pedestrian who is only crossing a part of a road is considered to be crossing the road.
(5) For this rule, an oncoming vehicle travelling through a T-intersection on the continuing road is taken not to be turning.
:
graphic
Examples :
graphic graphic
In example 2, vehicle B must stop and give way to each vehicle A.
graphic graphic
In examples 3 and 4, vehicle B must stop and give way to vehicle A.

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[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

the law says you must come to a 'complete stop'

fine, but what has 3 seconds got to do with it...

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by mattrobbo26

My argument being that if you can't 100% see what's coming at a give way sign your going to stop anyway. If something is coming and your at a give way sign you stop and give way. There really isn't much of a need for stop signs as long as people pay attention and look.

So...you're trusting your safety as you drive along a road with side-streets that every other driver is of the same standard as you are...? Trusting soul...

Most road rules and signs are there for one reason and one reason only:
"Lowest Common Denominator" driving standards. Yes, a fair percentage of people take a real interest in driving and try to better themselves as their life goes along.
However, a staggeringly large proportion of people honestly believe all they have to do is never speed and never drink-drive and they'll never ever have an accident...and that's the end of the involvement they need to put into operating a motor vehicle. It's a purely automatic process for them that doesn't really need much input.

These drivers are the reason we need firm rules saying "You must stop here and check...no really...STOP and open your damn eyes".

I don't have the same level of trust in my fellow motorists that you do I'm afraid...

[Phildo]

I read about a court case somewhere years ago, where a driver had allegedly failed to stop at a stop sign on the top of a hill.

The car had a manual gearbox. The rolled back a short distance as the driver changed back into first gear.

A cop saw this and wrote a ticket.

In court, the magistrate pointed out that if the car had been going forward up the hill and then rolled backward a short distance then that meant that for a split second the car was stationary (as it went from going forward to rolling backward).

Thus, the car had actually stopped, and there wasn’t a requirement for how long the car must stop for.

In my taxi late at night (ie no other cars around) I give the Brembos a workout and stop hard at the white line. As soon as there’s the jolt from the car stopping I accelerated away again. As long as the car stops for a split-second then that’s legal.

On my Aprliia SXV550 motard bike I often don’t even bother taking my feet off the footpegs. Stop for a split-second and then get back on the throttle again.

I hate stop signs, but I stop at the bloody things. You never know when there’s a bored cop around who wants to ruin your day. However, I spend the absolute bare minimum amount of time stopped…

[Silver Ghia]

I saw a van stop at a STOP sign this morning and wait a few seconds. Then pulled out right in front of the car that was about 30m ahead of me. The car in front had to brake hard. I've seen similar situations happen 3 times since this thread was first raised. Each time I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And they were all commercial vehicles with supposedly professional drivers.

The main reason for these signs is to get the drivers facing them to GIVE WAY.

Unfortunately the GIVE WAY bit seems to becoming forgotten.

[STINKY NINJA]

My friends daughter had her new fiesta smashed into because she had stopped at a stop sign.
The girl who rear ended her asked her why the hell she stopped when there were no cars coming....
I personally stop at all stop signs but i dont know why people even slow down for them if they arent going to fully stop?
From what ive seen at least 8 out of 10 people dont stop... ive nearly had a few cars slam up my *** because they havent expected me to stop!

[2011G6E]

Another point is the number of people who cruise straight through Give Way signs without even looking...they're conditioned to see Give Ways as "optional areas to take notice of what's around you".
Stop signs however...people have had it drummed into them to STOP.

That's a good thing for the more "casual" motorists out there...

[Honest Gaza]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

I think the overall lax attitude to stop signs is indicative of the overall lax attitude alot of the younger generation have, by that I mean the under 35s', to authority in general. It starts ....

While I agree with your sentiments about attitudes in general, people not stopping at Stop signs has been happening ever since I began driving more than 30 years ago....so let's not blame that on the current generation.

Some idiots just refuse to stop.

But then let's take that a little further. If we think someone is wrong for not obeying a stop sign....that is, you should stop at a stop sign...then is that any different from someone who decides it is ok to go faster than the speed limit because there were no cars around ?

[glimmerman]

I'm happy to stop at a stop sign and do, usually to have an older driver (someone clearly older than 35) sit behind me clearly agitated that they had to stop only to run straight through it behind me, it's not an age issue, some people are just that way inclined

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Ben73]

A lot of people don't obey rail crossing rules with regards to stopping. As soon as the gates are above the height of the car they are off and through the crossing. Legally you have to wait until the gates are fully raised due because the red lights have to stop flashing before you move though. I don't think I have ever seen a car wait for the lights to stop flashing.

Or country crossing that don't have gates, apparently the rules is when you see the lights start flashing, plant your foot to the floor and begin the race.