Another 'I'm in the wrong business' moment. - Page 2

Sam_Boss260 · 19-03-2015, 08:30 PM

It also pays to shop around and do your homework. We have been getting quotes for dropping some trees at our house. Got three quotes, difference from cheapest to dearest was a bit over $1,800. Big difference, but the guy who was the cheapest also seemed to be the least professional. The dearest mob included photos in their quote, attached copies of their current insurance policies and are very professional. The cheapest guys didn't even make clear if their price was inc or ex of GST on their quote.

So I called the dearest guys and simply stated that there was a big difference, but we were impressed with their professionalism and the detail in their quote, also stated that if they could match the price the business was theirs. They did and they now have the business.

**buggerlugs** · 19-03-2015, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Anyone who quotes me a different price for cash gets a visit from the ATO.

Just pure coincidence of course...

Are you saying you'd dob in a tradie for offering you a better deal for cash ?

2011G6E · 19-03-2015, 11:01 PM

Depends who they're doing the work for as well.

Used to see it when we had the railway house...contractors would turn up to do repairs, and you could almost see the dollar signs in their eyes knowing they were sending the bill to a large faceless company. Shoddy work, massive prices.
Also the work vehicles that went to the local mechanic out there for work...amazing prices for servicing.

Guys have also told me about the pricing of servicing on lease cars...there's apparently "two price lists" at most dealers up here...one for "normal" cars, and another when it's being paid for by the lease companies. We discovered this when a woman I work with took her privately owned car in and got a staggeringly huge bill for the service. They had made a mistake, thinking it was a lease car. They repriced it, and for the exact same service she paid hundreds less.

Yellow_Festiva · 20-03-2015, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

It also pays to shop around and do your homework. We have been getting quotes for dropping some trees at our house. Got three quotes, difference from cheapest to dearest was a bit over $1,800. Big difference, but the guy who was the cheapest also seemed to be the least professional. The dearest mob included photos in their quote, attached copies of their current insurance policies and are very professional. The cheapest guys didn't even make clear if their price was inc or ex of GST on their quote.

Forgot to add that one!

2 Decent trees on my then vacant block. Had 1 guy come out and tell me they can do them for $800 each. Told him I will get back to him.

While this was going on, the mobile rang, it was the other guy that was coming out to quote. Guy number 1 saw that I was shopping around and heard the fact I had arranged for the other guy to come out the following day.

He then dropped his price to $700 per tree. He had the tools in the car and could do it right away. Assured me I couldn't find cheaper...

I told him I would get back to him.

Guy number 2 did them both for $750. Poor fella went through a few chains doing it as 1 tree was hard as rock so I gave him a tip.

DBourne · 20-03-2015, 09:22 AM

I think I have these thoughts every day.

The amount of times I get support calls for the EASIEST of things, and I think, fantastic, you somehow get paid at least double I do, and yet you probably can't even tie your own shoe laces..

Makes me feel good.

GT0132 · 20-03-2015, 10:03 AM

As for cutting down trees , had 17 Palms cut down in the front yard of my place last year....Cost $900 !

Two blokes arrived at 8am with a truck and wood chipper and had the job finished with stumps ground and no mess by Noon.

Couldn't be happier...some before and after shots

**buggerlugs** · 20-03-2015, 10:07 AM

I like the before shot better ( sorry , I love palms !! )

Sam_Boss260 · 20-03-2015, 10:59 AM

Jesus.... looks like a different house !!

GT0132 · 20-03-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

Jesus.... looks like a different house !!

Yep...Best $900 I ever spent

Sam_Boss260 · 20-03-2015, 12:42 PM

I would have to agree with that Pete

**MercurySilver** · 20-03-2015, 03:58 PM

got quoted 1600 coins to drop a tree on our property
its slightly hanging over a garden shed next door
nothign that couldnt be moved tho
the price was in the the climber he had to hire im told
thats just to drop it

needless to say the tree is still there and if it falls on the nice ladies shed next door ill replace the 500 shed and the 4 bags of chook pellets she has in it for cheaper, plus the tree will be down

damo76 · 20-03-2015, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross 1

I always have a bit of a smile when I hear parents whinging that their kids are doing a sparky apprenticeship instead of going to uni. Worrying about their future, most tradies at the moment are doing better than a lot of graduates, I know I'm doing ok leaving school at 15. I like the German philosophy on getting tradespeople to your house, if you are unable or unwilling to do the work, you should pay a reasonable price for someone else to do it. I do mean reasonable, as a tradie I get sick of ripoff merchants giving us all a bad name. Last week I got some materials slightly cheaper and gave the client a $250 refund, because of this I have already had a call from their friends wanting work done. That $250 will turn into a few grand.

My old place of work was for a family owned business drilling water bores and that's how he operated. He never advertised, soley worked of word of mouth, did a good clean job and took care of the customer, best job i had actually, used to do a lot of bores for Italians so of course used to get a lot of lunches

zilo · 21-03-2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Are you saying you'd dob in a tradie for offering you a better deal for cash ?

Never done it, but sure been tempted with some clowns that treat me like an idiot and only offer the GST as the "discount".

Fact is I want at least 30% discount for cash since they won't be paying any income tax on it either.

I pay tax on all my income, so it's a bit rich for me to pay theirs as well.
(which is effectively what i would be doing with only a GST discount)

Also...I can't claim any of it on my tax return cause...no tax invoice.

So the job costs me 40% more!

**Giant Cranium** · 21-03-2015, 09:09 PM

taking cash is an incentive to earn a little more than normal whilst the owner saves money. everyone wins. now at 30% you save heaps and the trade earns no more. bit one-sided and unfair.
if I'm taking a risk of being caught tax evading I'm not doing it for anymore then a 10% discount.

**Giant Cranium** · 21-03-2015, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Also...I can't claim any of it on my tax return cause...no tax invoice.

So the job costs me 40% more!

you are saving more than you would be able to claim anyway

xtremerus · 22-03-2015, 04:31 PM

Zilo
A tradie could possibly give you a 30% discount on the LABOUR component of a job, but he would only make the same profit as the full invoice.
He would just ask you to pay the full invoice cost.
Then you have saved nothing.

GT0132 · 23-03-2015, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Zilo
A tradie could possibly give you a 30% discount on the LABOUR component of a job, but he would only make the same profit as the full invoice.
He would just ask you to pay the full invoice cost.
Then you have saved nothing.

On a tax invoiced transaction the tradie would be paying 10% GST and 39% income tax on the balance. That's assuming he earns over $80k a year on tax invoiced work, which most would.

To use an example. If the labour component of the job was worth $10k the tradie would pay $909 GST on that and be assessed for income tax on $9,090 at 37% + 2% medicare levy. Income tax therefore comes to $3,545.

So, of the $10,000, the tradie loses $4,455 in taxes and keeps $5,545.

To give a cash discount means there has to be something in it for the tradie as well otherwise why would he do it? So if you agree to split the $4,455 savings 50/50 then the job would cost $7,772, the discount to the customer becomes $2,228, or 22% of the original cost.

zilo · 23-03-2015, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

On a tax invoiced transaction the tradie would be paying 10% GST and 39% income tax on the balance. That's assuming he earns over $80k a year on tax invoiced work, which most would.

To use an example. If the labour component of the job was worth $10k the tradie would pay $909 GST on that and be assessed for income tax on $9,090 at 37% + 2% medicare levy. Income tax therefore comes to $3,545.

So, of the $10,000, the tradie loses $4,455 in taxes and keeps $5,545.

To give a cash discount means there has to be something in it for the tradie as well otherwise why would he do it? So if you agree to split the $4,455 savings 50/50 then the job would cost $7,772, the discount to the customer becomes $2,228, or 22% of the original cost.

Pres-exactly!

and if i can't claim it as an expense then I pay the income tax and the GST cause when i take the money out of my business account if i can't support it with a TAX INVOICE then it is just like I have spent the money on beer.

zilo · 23-03-2015, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

you are saving more than you would be able to claim anyway

wrong.

zilo · 23-03-2015, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Zilo
A tradie could possibly give you a 30% discount on the LABOUR component of a job, but he would only make the same profit as the full invoice.
He would just ask you to pay the full invoice cost.
Then you have saved nothing.

But with paperwork I get a tax deduction and I can claim back the GST.

So you too are mistaken.

**Giant Cranium** · 23-03-2015, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Pres-exactly!

and if i can't claim it as an expense then I pay the income tax and the GST cause when i take the money out of my business account if i can't support it with a TAX INVOICE then it is just like I have spent the money on beer.

why would you want to do a cashie with a business account? just asking to be reamed by the ato

zilo · 23-03-2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

why would you want to do a cashie with a business account? just asking to be reamed by the ato

No...not at all.

There are situations you may not have dreamed about.

**Giant Cranium** · 23-03-2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

No...not at all.

There are situations you may not have dreamed about.

you hold your cards close to your chest. can you elaborate?

Franco Cozzo · 23-03-2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

So, of the $10,000, the tradie loses $4,455 in taxes and keeps $5,545.

Looks like I'm in the wrong business too, I want to be the guy who collects and spends taxes

**Giant Cranium** · 23-03-2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

wrong.

spose i am if you are talking about business accounts not personal ones.

xtremerus · 23-03-2015, 05:01 PM

Zilo
I assume you work, so the buyer of your goods or services pays YOUR income tax.

GT0132 · 23-03-2015, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

But with paperwork I get a tax deduction and I can claim back the GST.

So you too are mistaken.

Zilo....You're right . You would never want a cash discount for an expense you can get a tax deduction for if all that was on offer from the tradie was a discount for the GST amount.

To make it worthwhile, in the absence of a tax invoice, and assuming your business could have otherwise claimed the GST , is a discount of over 45% That covers you for the $909 GST you can't claim and the $3,500 odd in income tax you could have claimed, but can't. (again, assuming 39% tax rate , but more if on the top rate of 48%)

Trouble is no tradie would offer such a discount (understandably) , so if the expense is tax deductible to you , or your business, you're better off just doing it the normal way and getting a tax invoice.

xtremerus · 23-03-2015, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

But with paperwork I get a tax deduction and I can claim back the GST.

So you too are mistaken.

But you were talking about a situation of cash and no invoice.
Make you mind up.

zilo · 23-03-2015, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

But you were talking about a situation of cash and no invoice.
Make you mind up.

ROFL..

MDS69 · 24-03-2015, 01:57 PM

A guy I know had his own landscaping company. Was out quoting a domestic job and the homeowner asked for a cheaper price if no GST. My mate said sorry don't do business that way. The homeowner turned out to work for the ATO and admitted as much. He wasn't trying to trap him, he just wanted a cheaper price.