Potential Class Action Against Toyota Hilux DPF Filters,

[xeeclipse]

The godfather of direct injection diesels the 2008-2010 pk ranger/bt50 is pre DPF and have a wonderful japanese DOHC 3.0L (cam belt driven).

In manual they're ok but the automatic 5 speed (same as FG) is a POS with poor tolerances and lack of material, especially in the housings.

[hayseed]

One of these & a Catch Can...Problem Solved..


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EGR-Blan...F9xJ:rk:4:pf:0

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by xeeclipse

Repairers must love these things...

engine: $20,000
turbo x2: $8000
injectors: $8,000

Then you get to the IFS, DPF, smog pumps and not to mention the ridiculous packaging of the hardware. Give me the abomination that is the 5.7L SAUDI SPECIAL Y62 PATROL any day!

Even simple things like changing a Starter Motor on a 79,series is a 10 hour job. As It's in the valley & all the air intake & fuel system needs to be removed & reinstalled..

[Romulus]

Anyone dumb enough to buy a Hilux, Prado or Fortuner should expect this from Toyota. Toyota probably state it’s a driving condition problem, not a vehicle problem. I sort of agree, you have to have a certain mindset and skill set (or lack thereof) to buy into Toyota’s marketing and believe their BS.


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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by xeeclipse

Repairers must love these things...

engine: $20,000
turbo x2: $8000
injectors: $8,000

Then you get to the IFS, DPF, smog pumps and not to mention the ridiculous packaging of the hardware. Give me the abomination that is the 5.7L SAUDI SPECIAL Y62 PATROL any day!

While the unleaded engine SUV's and bigger American utes use bulk amounts of fuel, set of injectors for a multi point injected engine is like $500 if that

Diesel sucks and it only makes sense if you need to pull something other than your knob - take it from me I have a TDCI Focus, sure it uses 5.5L/100km but the old man's Fiesta ST does 6L/100km, has 59KW more w/Mountune package and the same amount of torque

A dual cab ute would be on the agenda for me if for example the Ranger dual cab came with optional 2.3L Ecoboost engine that the Mustang has, say a 4x2, with an aggressive kit, some bigger wheels, a little lower.

I've got a leaky injector on my Focus, its an Euro IV diesel so its pre DPF crapola, its $1100+ per injector to me, I have to buy them in a set of 4 and they have to be coded to the ECU by Ford, guess what I'm not fixing?

Mechanically diesel engines are still tough as nails its just the ancillaries that are expensive and crap out - I've beaten it to within an inch of its life for every 153,000km I've put on it since I bought it new, its been down the drag strip 6x as well

Originally Posted by hayseed

Even simple things like changing a Starter Motor on a 79,series is a 10 hour job. As It's in the valley & all the air intake & fuel system needs to be removed & reinstalled..

Its the same thing with an AC compressor on a 200 series, its a 4 figure labour job alone before you even buy the compressor and put refrigerant back into the system.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Toyota probably state it’s a driving condition problem, not a vehicle problem.

Doubt Toyota would be as stupid as Ford... especially after the focus debacle.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Everyone loves Toyota diesel engines, how many 79 series Landcruiser utes do you see getting around where everyone thinks its 151KW/430NM torque is the best thing since sliced bread?

You think the DPF is costly, wait until you pay for injectors:

image

Run Away!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gP2J0CUjc

Here's a petrol 200 arking up to whet your appetite for simplicity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgSKkybbVDQ

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

So .. I would love posters in this thread to give a Toyota Involvement statement.
(Mine - I Owned a 74 Corona I bought second Hand, have never owned a diesel anything, but would consider one) )


I am amazed that if it is so hard for Toyota to fix ... how do the other manufacturers make a DPF work for the many urban only oilers ?

I ran VW Crafters in my business 2008-2015 and the DPF were a constant problem and made no difference whether they operated in the city or on the Highways , electronic sensors in the DPF used to give the wrong information to the CPU which then either did a burn or went into limp mode , sometimes it would not come out of limp mode and then needed to go back to the dealer for them to attach the Scanalyzer to make the vehicle usable again , the DPF was never blocked just giving the CPU the wrong information , saw many other brands with similar problems over the years so certainly not restricted to one brand.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Doubt Toyota would be as stupid as Ford... especially after the focus debacle.

I don't know about that. Toyota have form when it comes to addressing vehicle defects. One simply needs to look back to 2010 in the US where class lawsuits were filed against Toyota for defective accelerator and brake systems in their vehicles.

[MAGPIE]

I got a letter this week for my work Hilux, has to go in for new engine management software, will take 3.5 hrs so I suspect it is more than just software.

[jpd80]

All designed to make owners turn over their diesel utes every three or four years..

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by jpd80

All designed to make owners turn over their diesel utes every three or four years..

Most people in business with utes do that anyway.............

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Same goes with the amount of ranger gearbox issues, tranny slipping, engine idles erratic, turbo issues, coolant hose's etcetc....works both ways.
Yes repairers love them all once out of WTY.

Mate who works for Coates Hire has gone thru 3 Ranger service vehicles in 2 years with all of the above problems. Spent more time in the workshop than on the road.............

[xeeclipse]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Run Away!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gP2J0CUjc

Here's a petrol 200 arking up to whet your appetite for simplicity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgSKkybbVDQ

Ahhh... yes the lexus 5.7L hand me down in the LC200. A forgotten

monolith of reliability if it bares any similarity to the 4.0L vvti petrol in the hilux.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Mate who works for Coates Hire has gone thru 3 Ranger service vehicles in 2 years with all of the above problems. Spent more time in the workshop than on the road.............

correct mate and thanks for your storey, I'm involved with the many major 4x4 companies in business and some high management people now are personal friends who are top engineers and I trust their knowledge and experience and I've been around it for 30odd + yrs.
I lol at these attacks on most companies for which one is a saint ?! none of them.
The quotes on people buying on marketing is sheer ignorance......
Todays world with internet blogs/media reviews and obviously some word of mouth from friends etc people are far smarter today not the duesch bags some think.
Fact is, no matter the toy companies flaws they are for the every day daily/soccer mum/councils/mining that buy the brand more so on the base's of RANGE, bang for their buck, depreciation is good, availability/dealers everywhere and massive distribution parts sourcing, makes for an easy buy decision for many even though they may have wished for something else.
In the big picture the brand has a good record despite recalls blahblahblah.....
Is there better in xyz model from others ? some yes and some not.
The better ends up being with a company thats its service most times is a headache and just not good enough.
When another volume competitor can stand up and deliver the same across the board then you can judge apples with apples but to date there isn't one.
The cars are as boring as white paint but the general punter is happy with that and they are no1 due to so many pieces of the puzzle that other companies can't match piece for piece as mentioned.
They aren't what they used to be in quality etcetc, well what other competitor is any better.
They have all dumbed down in quality.
One thing is for sure being were on our beloved Ford forum, I know which of the 2 I would have a better chance for WTY repairs and less hassle process.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Most people in business with utes do that anyway.............

Of course they do and what I’m getting at is very few if any would be dumb enough to want to roll over their lease and keep them to another four years.

The other side of this is used vehicle buyers still think they are getting a bargain with these vehicles and just don’t realise the Mine field of trouble that lies ahead with aging diesel Utes. Eventually they end up too bloody dear to fix and are scrapped instead of being resold which is why there’s plenty of them in the bone yards.

I would love to see the life cycle of a $55K-$60K Ute, I bet most are toast by ten years.

[roKWiz]

Reading all these new DPF, regens, adblue ECM crap diesel horror stories just convinces me to stick with the old mechanical diesel fleet I like to maintain myself.
Note to self... keep stockpiling more parts.

[jpd80]

It also makes me think that options like Ecoboost and petrol hybrid might be far less painful in the long run.
The way diesel is going, maybe a financial tipping point is coming where buyers say to hell with this.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It also makes me think that options like Ecoboost and petrol hybrid might be far less painful in the long run.
The way diesel is going, maybe a financial tipping point is coming where buyers say to hell with this.

It's not a financial tipping point that will see diesel being phased out, it's an environmental issue. The issue with diesel engines is emissions, specifically particulate outputs which are carcinogenic. European vehicle manufacturers are moving back to petrol e.g. high compression direct injection turbo charged petrol engines. Similar power and torque outputs of diesel without the particulates from the exhaust.

[xeeclipse]

Originally Posted by Romulus

It's not a financial tipping point that will see diesel being phased out, it's an environmental issue. The issue with diesel engines is emissions, specifically particulate outputs which are carcinogenic. European vehicle manufacturers are moving back to petrol e.g. high compression direct injection turbo charged petrol engines. Similar power and torque outputs of diesel without the particulates from the exhaust.

The oily nature of diesel is always going to leave you with a lot of carbon particulates once combusted.

Pumping the carbon particulates (one of the hardest materials on earth) back through the engine is only going to exacerbate the problem by wearing the pump out prematurely, but wait... WE HAVE A DPF!! Which doesn't work half the time anyway .

It's all a vicious cycle when it comes to diesels and it's all just trying to prevent the inevitable which is the extinction of the species.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Watching some of 'Old Mates' youtube videos about it, there's a fundamental flaw in the pdf design and something about the 5th injector position angle being all wrong, which fails to work as it gets clogged to easy.
He mentions, Toyota, due to the amount of vehicles being sold to mine sites, knew of the issues a long time ago as they were offering delete kits to the mine sites to keep the utes going. They were also offering these kits to non-mine people as well.

Going to be interesting how this one plays out!!!

Are you implying that Toyota are bypassing emissions regs by offering delete kits for mine work? Hmm i wonder what the epa would think of this.

Especially once the vehicles are finished with and sent off to auction? Do they refit the emissions equipment or send them out with illegal modifications?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by xeeclipse

Ahhh... yes the lexus 5.7L hand me down in the LC200. A forgotten

monolith of reliability if it bares any similarity to the 4.0L vvti petrol in the hilux.

You are close - the LC200 gets the URJ 4.6 all alloy V8 in Australia. 100 Series Cruisers and early 200 had the iron block alloy head 4.7 UZJ which had belts but proved to be a very reliable unit. The URJ is chain driven so should prove even more reliable.

Any mechanics out there, are these non interference motors? (Sorry if my terminology sucks...) That is, if the belts fail or chains slip, valves don't hit pistons if the motor gets out of sync?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Reading all these new DPF, regens, adblue ECM crap diesel horror stories just convinces me to stick with the old mechanical diesel fleet I like to maintain myself.
Note to self... keep stockpiling more parts.

A shout out to our old, mechanical, non direct injection, pre-combustion chamber 2H diesel, which took us around Oz when it was already an older car. Started with 285,000km, ended with 440,000km (so to the moon and on the way back). One alternator, and one wire into solenoid on starter motor, that was all that went wrong, in all that time and kms. Well done Isuzu and Toyota.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Anyone dumb enough to buy a Hilux, Prado or Fortuner should expect this from Toyota.


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What is the reasoning behind this?
I’ve spent considerable time behind the wheel of both Ranger and Hilux and imo there’s not much between them. Ranger has better interior I thought, Toyota has better stereo, both pull a load the same and both use around the same amount of fuel. Empty & towing.

The big difference is that if I was in the market for one I could pick up an SR5 Hilux 5-10 grand cheaper than the equalivent XLT Ranger.

I think the Ranger will go down as the most over rated vehicle of this decade.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by smoo

What is the reasoning behind this?

Toyota's track record. The lawsuits filed in the US against Toyota says it all.

Originally Posted by smoo

I’ve spent considerable time behind the wheel of both Ranger and Hilux and imo there’s not much between them. Ranger has better interior I thought, Toyota has better stereo, both pull a load the same and both use around the same amount of fuel. Empty & towing.

The big difference is that if I was in the market for one I could pick up an SR5 Hilux 5-10 grand cheaper than the equalivent XLT Ranger.

I think the Ranger will go down as the most over rated vehicle of this decade.

In the mean while, the Hilux is going down as the most over rated vehicle of this decade. The number of Hilux's I see belching white smoke from the exhaust increases on a daily basis. The smell of unburnt diesel is putrid.

[FTE217]

LOL, so what about Das Auto's law suit ? and others ffs says it all alright....
They are not alone.
My 09 SR5 D4 @ 160thou k's has only costed me its usual service's/tyres/brakes.
Off roading/treated as it should with not much respect, I can't fault the stupid vanilla thing.
Meanwhile the Hilux is still going down the path as one of the smarter options whats on offer period.
My last convo with a 4x4 Engineer having the current SR5 and Wlidtraks in their fleets and just come back from 2week offroad trek - the smarter buy is still the Hilux of the 2 regards ownership.
You have your opinion but many more go the other way.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by FTE217

LOL, so what about Das Auto's law suit ? and others ffs says it all alright....
They are not alone.
My 09 SR5 D4 @ 160thou k's has only costed me its usual service's/tyres/brakes.
Off roading/treated as it should with not much respect, I can't fault the stupid vanilla thing.
Meanwhile the Hilux is still going down the path as one of the smarter options whats on offer period.
My last convo with a 4x4 Engineer having the current SR5 and Wlidtraks in their fleets and just come back from 2week offroad trek - the smarter buy is still the Hilux of the 2 regards ownership.
You have your opinion but many more go the other way.

Agree with that!
Down here in the Southern zone of Costa Rica, Hilux is king... Nissan, Mitsub, Ranger a fair distance behind.
The unbelievabley mountainous terrain, unmade “roads”, the weather (humidity & incredible rainfall) is a killer of ALL vehicles here, but Hiluxs are far and away the preferred option!

[JG33]

All I can say is, thank **** I drive a petrol engine car.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Agree with that!
Down here in the Southern zone of Costa Rica, Hilux is king... Nissan, Mitsub, Ranger a fair distance behind.
The unbelievabley mountainous terrain, unmade “roads”, the weather (humidity & incredible rainfall) is a killer of ALL vehicles here, but Hiluxs are far and away the preferred option!

We are onto our fourth Diesel Hilux. $170 capped servicing, happy days. You look after them, they look after you...................

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Toyota's track record. The lawsuits filed in the US against Toyota says it all.



In the mean while, the Hilux is going down as the most over rated vehicle of this decade. The number of Hilux's I see belching white smoke from the exhaust increases on a daily basis. The smell of unburnt diesel is putrid.

Have Toyota’s track record had Aussie customers being burnt by Toyota on after sales service?
Their huge sales across the segments would suggest not.
And hey the same analogy could be applied to Ford buyers especially FoA blasé attitude to buyers with Falcon & Territory warranty issues, powershift issues and euro Ford diesel DPF issues.