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25-02-2009, 08:57 AM | #31 | ||||
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07 Renault Sport Megane F1 Team R26 #1397
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25-02-2009, 09:47 AM | #32 | |||
Red is nice Mark.
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Reason is, I would put tri y's on this particular XR manual, but I have 4-1's on my TE, and they are better for it, with the system I have, and the power delivery that I want. It is a manual. But I would have the Tri Y on it if it was an auto. The hand made set you are going to get are obviously the best solution in any case, as they will be specifically designed for your application, and no doubt would be better than off the shelf items. Looking at your sig and RWKW on that Pursuit, you need a new system.IMO. and perhaps the paricular headers on it are not as good as they could be? Or are they just the factory 4-1's? OP. Yes I had car dynoed before and after, and made gains accross the range.
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Twin T3's TE 50 #72 Blueprint & TS 50 #105 Blueprint : |
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25-02-2009, 10:12 AM | #33 | |||
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On the road, they feel much livelier down low. It's not just my opinion anyhow, it's been a proven fact forever and a day. Tri-Yy's are the choice for street driven engines up to 6000rpm. 4-1's are for race engines where 6000-8000rpm and more is seen regularly. I'm not sure why this is even being discussed, it's common knowledge as I see it.
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25-02-2009, 10:12 AM | #34 | |||
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25-02-2009, 10:23 AM | #35 | ||||||
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As that is the only rev range where a 4-1 is better. Quote:
I know myself that I won't be spinning my engine beyond 6000rpm in the short term, and even if I did wish to go to 7000rpm chasing big power later, that there might only be a small 1000rpm window which they will be slightly lower in power. I can live with that for the far greater felxibilty they have in the rev range which is used 95% of the time. The mentioned exhaust guru also maintains that a tri-y are the best for road use for the reasons I've already given. As does any exhaust guy worth anything. Quote:
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The bottom line here is that both headers work well for there intended application. One set for race use, one set for road use. I think the problem lie in that most people aren't honest to themselves and like to think they have some kind of race car. What works on the track, doesn't work on the road. Ask yourself, how often is the tacho showing more than 6000rpm?
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25-02-2009, 10:33 AM | #36 | |||
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Sox it may be an idea to re read before you post, that last one came across as highly argumentative.
This is all your opinion, and you are welcome to that, but as I said my opinion is that the what I have on mine is what seems to work for mine. My dyno results back this up as do my 1/4 results, remember I have an intake and TB that is a lot more restrictive than a T3/P250 yet I still make more power.
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07 Renault Sport Megane F1 Team R26 #1397
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25-02-2009, 10:50 AM | #37 | |||||
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In a nutshell, were you comparing apples with apples under proper conditions? I'm not really interested in what 'seems' right. As I said, this is well documented stuff, and not just an opinion plucked from my rear end.
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25-02-2009, 11:01 AM | #38 | ||
Red is nice Mark.
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My experience and results tells me differently for my car and application. But obviously you have a very black and white view, and I will not bite. I don't care to argue.
OP. As I said, I would fit tri-y on a stock XR.
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25-02-2009, 11:05 AM | #39 | ||||||
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If you so strongly feel the need to prove your opinion as fact then I am happy for you to send me a set of good Tri-Y's and I will do back to back testing of them. My headers are the old Herrod/Di Fillipo ones, much R&D work went into what would be best for the AU XR8 (people can say what they want about Herrod but the fact they research and have very good products can never be disputed) so they went with this design 4>1 header.
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07 Renault Sport Megane F1 Team R26 #1397
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25-02-2009, 11:13 AM | #40 | ||
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The old Tri-y Vs 4-1 discussions never end.. still makes interesting reading though.
After speaking with Pacemaker they recommended Tri-y ( PH4001 ) for my 220 manual, to tell you the truth I was not 100% happy with them. The vehicle just felt a bit toned down if that makes sense, it felt like it lost its urgency. Still went well, plenty of torque but lost its aggro, made it a more pleasant vehicle to drive but thats not what I was looking for. This changed after fitting a SS inductions CAI, don't ask me why but it transformed the vehicle, the aggro was back, breathed very nicely and was back to its old self but with plenty more go, no question on that. Having said that if I was going to do it all again, which I won't be on this vehicle anyway I would go with Pacemaker PH4006 on a manual vehicle. I just think the Tri-y design whilst better than the factory effort is still perhaps more restrictive than the 4-1 design. Just my opinion for whats its worth. |
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25-02-2009, 11:56 AM | #41 | ||||||
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We'll agree to disagree, sound fair? Quote:
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The old engine builder that I once worked for has been in the game for just over 30 years, spent more hours on dynos than we can poke a stick at. And the exhaust guru mentioned earlier has been making headers and exhaust systems for perhaps similar number of years. Both of them agree that most 4-1's are used because they are easier and cheaper to make. A good tri-y is a complex unit and has more science to it. But when done right, provide the rewards. They know there business, and it correlates with almost everything that is written on the subject. I'm not worried about you guys using what you want to use, but when it goes against what's been researched and documented over a lot of years, it's a bit hard to swallow from a handfull of quick and dirty tests. Anyway, I'll give it a rest if you want, contrary to what you think I'm not interested in arguing about it. But when I see something wrong, I try to clear it up, don't you?
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25-02-2009, 12:05 PM | #42 | |||
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OK Sox, you're right and anyone that has a differing opinion must be wrong.
I think it is time to drop the header debate.
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07 Renault Sport Megane F1 Team R26 #1397
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25-02-2009, 03:33 PM | #43 | ||
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Some basic info if anyone cares to look....
http://www.hmheaders.com.au/index.ph...ical-Info.html http://www.advanceheaders.com.au/ http://www.impulsengine.com/how/header.shtml http://www.pacemaker.com.au/faq.html http://www.speedpartz.com/techarticle_triy.htm http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...que/index.html
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25-02-2009, 09:47 PM | #44 | |||
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I hope there is no ill feelings between the people that took part in today's spirited debate. Thanks for the informative links, Sox. My decision to go the 4into1 paceys was made on the advice from a exhaust shop worker that owned a 200kw au ute and had the luxury to do back to back swap overs between try y and 4 into 1 pacemakers, On their own in house dyno. Just to add to my original post, He also said on the street the try y may have felt a little more torquey but thought it may be his imagination because it didn't show on their dyno. Regards, Craig. |
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25-02-2009, 11:08 PM | #45 | |||
AU DIE HARD
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MMM leave the stockies on it like me : and come play anyway : :
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26-02-2009, 07:21 AM | #46 | ||||
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Next time I drop in to see my exhaust bloke I'll see if he has some info to post back here.
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26-02-2009, 07:23 AM | #47 | |||
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The rest of the system is crap though.
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