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27-12-2013, 10:52 AM | #32 | |||
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If I had some spare cash I would look into some Shell shares or LNG supplier shares of some sort too? |
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27-12-2013, 10:55 AM | #33 | |||
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27-12-2013, 10:58 AM | #34 | ||
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LNG is 'Liquid Natural Gas' so like LPG they can store much more fuel in whatever tanks they..... Range with CNG is pathetic.
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27-12-2013, 11:05 AM | #35 | |||
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27-12-2013, 06:09 PM | #36 | ||
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Beat me too it... Cng is a pain in the **** let alone trying to find a decent cost filling station for end user use.
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27-12-2013, 08:45 PM | #37 | ||
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Go have a quiet look at the size of the fuel tank that was actually in that 7 series BMW...you know, they V12 that could only put out the power of a six cylinder because of the very low energy content of hydrogen gas?
So many technical issues, so much cost, so many problems using an energy-negative fuel such as hydrogen (takes more power to produce the stuff than is contained in the end product). Until massive technical breakthroughs are made in storage and production, it's a dream, or just something to interest people who think there are simple answers to the fuel question. |
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27-12-2013, 08:52 PM | #38 | ||
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^^^^so why are they asking for the infrastructure rollout?.
Merc BS?.
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27-12-2013, 09:35 PM | #39 | ||
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No idea. Probably won't be anything to do with passenger vehicles though. As I said, the fuel tank in the BMW...it took up most of where the back seat should be and half the boot...it was huge, and heavily insulated as it had to be to contain the cold fuel.
I never said that hydrogen couldn't be used in an internal combustion engine...it's just hopelessly inefficient as a fuel source. I would hazard a guess that they're trying to access some of the billions floating around for anyone willing to use the word "green energy" in the title of their proposal...? |
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27-12-2013, 09:40 PM | #40 | ||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car
.. Had these things running in 1963 and would run on almost any combustible liquid without mucking about .. See President of Mexico running his on tequila. Why mucking about with things like hydrogen when this technology already exists and could be "upgraded" to modern specifications? |
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28-12-2013, 08:54 AM | #41 | |||
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30-12-2013, 09:04 AM | #42 | |||
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02-01-2014, 12:13 PM | #43 | ||
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Most hydrogen is produced from natural gas
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...gen-production Why not just use the natural gas for fuel and not bother converting it to hydrogen? Yes, you can make hydrogen by electroylis from water but the reason they make it from natural gas is cost. Perhaps some time in the future there may be cheaper ways to make hydrogen such as biological processes which are under development in labs but so are better batteries for electric cars. Right now LPG is the only practical alternative to petrol and diesel. Anyway, whatever we use, you can bet the govt will put a big tax on it. |
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02-01-2014, 12:19 PM | #44 | |||
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Turbo direct injection diesel and now petrol with all the other formats, hybrids etc and no local input will see to that.
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02-01-2014, 06:38 PM | #45 | ||
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Japan is investing in Hydrogen infrastructure and pushing for hydrogen fuel cell technology which will "eventually" be able to allow better storage and performance form hydrogen. Israel is already running trials of fuel cell vehicles but the issue is size of the cells at present but they estimate in 5 years fuels cells will be small enough and economical enough to be an everyday use.
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2...cell-stations/ http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/21/...s-no-platinum/ |
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02-01-2014, 08:09 PM | #46 | ||
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CNG was what they used in Pakistan when I was there. Can't recall seeing LPG at all? Lots of cars there run on the stuff, got some pics of the tank and filler setup in a civic I think?
They have been using it for ages, I guess to them it's like how we see LPG. I did save things like cost of conversion, economy compared to petrol and cost per litre (I think it may have been sold by the kg?!?) On my phone but that was 3 or 4 phones ago now.
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02-01-2014, 08:14 PM | #47 | ||
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Interesting time for the local servo coming up it seems....
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02-01-2014, 08:21 PM | #48 | |||
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02-01-2014, 08:25 PM | #49 | ||
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......only while it lasts, it going going......
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02-01-2014, 08:34 PM | #50 | ||
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Not sure yet Ryeman give it some time for pump prices to come back down. Plus lets see what happens with Abbotts latest idea of investing in LPG technologies......It really can go two ways......Either exponential or yes it may gradually die off...
Eastern countires are actually taking on LNG and LPG bigtime for buses and infrastructure etc so why cant OZ do the same? This is why we all need to sign that petition I posted and get as many lpg users as possible to stand up and demand some answers and changes! |
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02-01-2014, 08:41 PM | #51 | |||
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The only industry he wants to meddle in relates to CO2 emissions. But I certainly hope I'm wrong.
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02-01-2014, 11:13 PM | #52 | ||
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what's wrong with methane
there has always been a never ending supply coming out of Canberra What colour are methane flames? |
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02-01-2014, 11:45 PM | #53 | |||
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GK
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03-01-2014, 10:40 AM | #54 | ||
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The Prius had barely come out in large numbers before other manufacturers were getting far better fuel economy figures out of cars with "normal" drivetrains like small turbo diesels and petrol engines with interesting new technologies in them, combined with better gearboxes.
With LPG, it probably made sense back when 10ltr/100km was an unobtainable dream in anything but some funny little tiny foreign cars, but now if a manufacturers large sedan doesn't get way better than 10/100 on the highway, it's vilified as old fashioned and hopelessly out of date. Our G6E used to amaze me by sitting down on 8/100 when our four cylinder 1982 Celica can't get anywhere near that good a fuel economy. With the price rises of LPG, and the amazing economy of "normal" cars, there's no real benefit of going the LPG route anymore. Hydrogen has a whole other long list of limitations and problems of its own. |
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04-01-2014, 03:41 PM | #55 | |||
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Rather than combusting liquid H it uses a fuel cell to drive an electric motor and appears to have a practical range (hard to know who to believe though), top speed and refueling time. It carries around 5kg of H2 on board and the setup doesn't look to be badly intrusive on cargo space - it's diminished by 1.9 cubic feet (54 litres?) compared with a standard Tucson. A lack of hydrogen stations outside a couple of LA looks like a major current limitation although apparently there are more planned throughout San Fransisco and LA. Will this restricted coverage along with a limited build number of 1000 vehicles in California see it go the way of the BMW 7 or will it become a viable alternative?
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05-01-2014, 06:52 AM | #56 | ||
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There's no such thing as liquid hydrogen, it doesn't exist. Even liquifying Helium is extraordinarily difficult.
As a fuel for internal combustion, Hydrogen is difficult and rather pointless. The push for Hydrogen centres around fuel-cells, and the use of non-fossil energy. Unfortunately generating Hydrogen from electrolysis of water is extremely inefficient and expensive. Ironically, the only commercially viable method of producing Hydrogen gas is by burning natural gas in such a way that only the carbon is oxidised. But of course you'd be better off just running your car on the natural gas. |
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05-01-2014, 08:29 AM | #57 | ||
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05-01-2014, 09:06 AM | #58 | ||
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Nor 'liquid' gas.....oh.....err....
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05-01-2014, 10:28 AM | #59 | ||
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Maybe we should start using our farming land to make ethanol based fuels, since majority of the **** you buy in the supermarket tastes like crap and comes from overseas.
I believe some of the VE Commodores can run on E85 from factory? |
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05-01-2014, 11:02 AM | #60 | |||
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I read a news article where it said Melbourne drivers and servos basically dumped the whole Ethanol idea because they couldn't see the benefits of it. Shell removed all there E85 pumps too! |
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