Ford soon to highlight local 'Vision'

[Polyal]

You did miss a few good Fords there Flappist but it certainly seems Ford are going for volume first...much like Toyota did.

Now Toyota have sparked up.

[Wretched]

I don't mind if Ford do the volume selling. If it makes them money then I am all for it.
It gives them more money to spend on building more exciting cars.
They still build the ST models, Mustangs, etc so as long as that happens i don't care how many white goods they sell. Hey we may even get another GT(40).

Ford's "whitegoods" are not like Toyota's either, they are a brilliant base platform and world class.

[Maka]

While i mourn the loss of Falcon, Fairmont, Fairlane i know Ford are doing the right thing business wise positioning themselves to take advantage of current motoring trends, emissions legislation, technology etc.

Ford will consolidate & improve market share with cost effective offerings that will be (or close to) segment leaders, a fact already proven now! I live in hope Falcon gets a last minute reprieve for sure but looking into the future, Ford can only flourish if it gets this "Vision" right - how long have Ford been around for again? Hint - (been there done that) lol!

cheers, Maka

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I don't mind if Ford do the volume selling. If it makes them money then I am all for it.
It gives them more money to spend on building more exciting cars.
They still build the ST models, Mustangs, etc so as long as that happens i don't care how many white goods they sell. Hey we may even get another GT(40).

Ford's "whitegoods" are not like Toyota's either, they are a brilliant base platform and world class.

This!!! X1000

[imugli]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hmm

Toyota make/made ...NSX

Did they? I'm sure Honda would argue they didn't

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Mrs LeadFoot81 just bought a Focus Titanium, it's not so much a Cheeseburger as it is a Filet Mignon...puts every luxury Falcon/Fairmont I've been in to shame.

Looks sensational inside and out (looks are subjective, fair enough)
Well built
Too many standard features/gadgets to list
Goes like stink
Economical
Fun to drive

There is a world outside of Falcon/RWD saloons. Open your eyes.

Some of us don't give two hoots about fuel economy. And buying a Ford for its gadgets is like a lady going to K-mart to buy the latest fashion or best jewellery. I thought henry Ford's vision was for the car to become an affordable, durable item, not a class leading ultimate driving machine for bankers and accountants, loaded with more gadgets than dick smith powerhouse.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Some of us don't give two hoots about fuel economy. And buying a Ford for its gadgets is like a lady going to K-mart to buy the latest fashion or best jewellery. I thought henry Ford's vision was for the car to become an affordable, durable item, not a class leading ultimate driving machine for bankers and accountants, loaded with more gadgets than dick smith powerhouse.

I'm sorry but I think your opinions are in the minority with most buyers putting high priority on
fuel economy and desiring well appointed smaller vehicles that have all the features you would find in larger vehicles.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Some of us don't give two hoots about fuel economy. And buying a Ford for its gadgets is like a lady going to K-mart to buy the latest fashion or best jewellery. I thought henry Ford's vision was for the car to become an affordable, durable item, not a class leading ultimate driving machine for bankers and accountants, loaded with more gadgets than dick smith powerhouse.

Yep I don't care about fuel economy either....

A New FG XR6T isn't that bad on fuel, is that what you have?

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Some of us don't give two hoots about fuel economy. And buying a Ford for its gadgets is like a lady going to K-mart to buy the latest fashion or best jewellery. I thought henry Ford's vision was for the car to become an affordable, durable item, not a class leading ultimate driving machine for bankers and accountants, loaded with more gadgets than dick smith powerhouse.

So you're one of 'those' guys are you? I won't waste any more of either of our time.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

This is a FORD Forum ....... NOT a FALCON nor an AUSTRALIAN MADE Forum.

Thank you!

I'm sick of the "I'm done with Ford" attitude here, especially on a thread about the future of Ford with Aussie design and engineering input.

This is an exciting time for Ford Australia. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm sorry but I think your opinions are in the minority with most buyers putting high priority on
fuel economy and desiring well appointed smaller vehicles that have all the features you would find in larger vehicles.

Time for some facts and figures - just to give you some perspective... And this goes back to my first RANT about people not caring about $XX per week for something.... you can justify small amounts of money being spent for your own personal satisfaction....

2013 Focus Ambiente (4cyl auto petrol) FG XR6 (6cyl auto petrol) vs FG GT-P (8cyl auto petrol)
6.5lt per 100km (combined economy) vs 9.9lt per 100km (combined economy) vs 13.7lt per 100km (combined economy)

Now - lets say on average you're gonna do 35,000km in a year...
And lets say the average petrol price is $1.40 per litre...
The Focus is going to use: 2275 litres (which is $3185.00 of fuel)
The XR6 is going to use : 3465 litres (which is $4851.00 of fuel)
The GT-P is going to use : 4795 litres (which is $6713.00 of fuel)

So - here is where the big costs really stand out.

$61.00 a week to fuel the Focus
$93.00 a week to fuel the XR6
$130.00 a week to fuel the GT-P

Now - given the Focus costs approx $20k, double that for the XR6 ($40k) and then double that again for the GT-P ($80k) and it all starts adding up doesn't it....

And - just quickly while i'm spitting out FACTS.... If we were doing this on FINANCE: (Based on a 5 year loan, 9% interest, weekly repayments)

Focus $20k loan = $95.00 per week (and total interest of $4,825)
XR6 $40k loan = $190.00 per week (and total interest of $9,650)
GT-P $80k loan = $380.00 per week (and total interest of $19,298)

So really what I'm saying is - if you can afford to drive around in a GT-P... you could alternatively afford to drive around in a Focus and also own an investment property instead.......

BUT - People don't look at these facts in detail when they are buying a car. Buying a car is an 'emotional' decision. If it was based on 'rational' thinking - we'd all be driving a white Focus... or worse - a Prius.....

But - we're car enthusiasts.... we love our cars and enjoy driving them.... and sometimes the costs don't matter when you're getting a smile on your dial each and every time you turn the key...........

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

Time for some facts and figures -

$61.00 a week to fuel the Focus
$93.00 a week to fuel the XR6
$130.00 a week to fuel the GT-P

yes, very well said. I'm also a figures person, and that's why i have a fuel sipping buzzbox for daily chores and a guzzling v8 for weekend fun.

[jpd80]

And after four years ownership and 40% residual value,

the $20,000 car is now worth $8,000 and has lost $12,000
the $40,000 car is now worth $16,000 and has lost $24,000
the $80,000 car is now worth $32,000 and has lost $48,000

All of the above have lost those amounts whilst their owners were paying those principle amounts off with interest.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And after four years ownership and 40% residual value,

the $20,000 car is now worth $8,000 and has lost $12,000
the $40,000 car is now worth $16,000 and has lost $24,000
the $80,000 car is now worth $32,000 and has lost $48,000

All of the above have lost those amounts whilst their owners were paying those principle amounts off with interest.

Yes, very ugly numbers quoted above for SC GT-P ownership, numbers I don't like to read and try my best to ignore. I suppose you'd call that creative accounting Here's some more creative accounting...suppose you put $200,000 deposit into a decent investment property and borrowed the other $800,000. The tenant started a P Lab in your house and afterwards including non payment of rent and a general decline in the market value caused by interest rates going back up again, including cleaning up the P Lab mess you could easily lose the full $200,000. People think property investment is a one way bet and in my view nothing could be further from the truth especially with grossly over inflated current prices. At least with owning a high performance car you know you'll have lots of fun while you lose lots of money. Sorry to digress.

[GTP534]

We have the Territory for through the week use - it offers us versatility that we need as a family that the Focus, XR6 and GTP can't offer. It's reasonably economical and has been trouble-free for almost 4 years.

When it's time to replace we'll look at what best suits our needs then.

Now for the R-Spec - that was a totally emotionally driven purchase!

Economically it doesn't make sense and like Rodge, I try not to think about it!! But, once you hit that starter button, idle it along a little till she warms up, nail that throttle and disappear up the road - it makes sense!!

[Polyal]

I dont know why people buy cars and overly worry about resale, you cant control it so let it go.

Yes for most people its probably the second biggest purchase they make, but they dont make you money thats for sure.

[Focused]

I'll be there and will let you know how it goes.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont know why people buy cars and overly worry about resale, you cant control it so let it go.

Yes for most people its probably the second biggest purchase they make, but they dont make you money thats for sure.

Some people update in three to five years so they worry about how much they're going to get for it.

Me personally, I'd keep it for a very, very long time, until it's worth next to nothing. By then I should've had 10+ years of enjoyment out of it.

[FalconXV]

I want to attend, how does one get an invite?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yes, very ugly numbers quoted above for SC GT-P ownership, numbers I don't like to read and try my best to ignore. I suppose you'd call that creative accounting

Not meaning to put down people who lay out serious coin on a major investment that's going to be
a depreciating asset so long as they can afford it, the problem occurs when people who can't afford it try to
and then realise just how big the cash burn really is. True cost of ownership covers everything and it's much more
than fuel economy and payments, I've seen marriages destruct over cars and houses when the sums don't add up.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yes, very ugly numbers quoted above for SC GT-P ownership

Rodge you own an S class. Correct me i im wrong but the rip on that cold buy a beach house.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yes for most people its probably the second biggest purchase they make, but they dont make you money thats for sure.

Almost true. Over a lifetime, people end up spend MORE on cars than houses. That's due to frequency of replacement. Think of the number of retired folk with a new Prado that cost more than their house did 30 years ago.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

Time for some facts and figures - just to give you some perspective... And this goes back to my first RANT about people not caring about $XX per week for something.... you can justify small amounts of money being spent for your own personal satisfaction....

2013 Focus Ambiente (4cyl auto petrol) FG XR6 (6cyl auto petrol) vs FG GT-P (8cyl auto petrol)
6.5lt per 100km (combined economy) vs 9.9lt per 100km (combined economy) vs 13.7lt per 100km (combined economy)

Now - lets say on average you're gonna do 35,000km in a year...
And lets say the average petrol price is $1.40 per litre...
The Focus is going to use: 2275 litres (which is $3185.00 of fuel)
The XR6 is going to use : 3465 litres (which is $4851.00 of fuel)
The GT-P is going to use : 4795 litres (which is $6713.00 of fuel)

So - here is where the big costs really stand out.

$61.00 a week to fuel the Focus
$93.00 a week to fuel the XR6
$130.00 a week to fuel the GT-P

Now - given the Focus costs approx $20k, double that for the XR6 ($40k) and then double that again for the GT-P ($80k) and it all starts adding up doesn't it....

And - just quickly while i'm spitting out FACTS.... If we were doing this on FINANCE: (Based on a 5 year loan, 9% interest, weekly repayments)

Focus $20k loan = $95.00 per week (and total interest of $4,825)
XR6 $40k loan = $190.00 per week (and total interest of $9,650)
GT-P $80k loan = $380.00 per week (and total interest of $19,298)

So really what I'm saying is - if you can afford to drive around in a GT-P... you could alternatively afford to drive around in a Focus and also own an investment property instead.......

BUT - People don't look at these facts in detail when they are buying a car. Buying a car is an 'emotional' decision. If it was based on 'rational' thinking - we'd all be driving a white Focus... or worse - a Prius.....

But - we're car enthusiasts.... we love our cars and enjoy driving them.... and sometimes the costs don't matter when you're getting a smile on your dial each and every time you turn the key...........

If we only live once, and we could die tomorrow, what use is the investment property, or the big bank balance for that matter. Imagine living life based purely on logic: marrying the worst person for their wealth, staying sngle because nobody can be trusted and divorces always happen, not having any children because each one you don't have is a million saved over the next 2 decades, staying indoors all the time for fear of skin cancer, not driving because you are more likely to be killed in a road accident than in a plane crash or driving a camry hybrid because it is reliable and economical. Have to make at least some decisions emotionally in life, or what is the point of living

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

If we only live once, and we could die tomorrow, what use is the investment property, or the big bank balance for that matter.

I'm reminded of Groucho Marx comment on money,

“While money can't buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.”

- Groucho Marx

The crazy thing is that so many people are so focused on you could die tomorrow that they fail to plan for living.

It's like the guy who was given news that he was dying of cancer, not long to live,
went out told his boss and friends to all go jump, spent all his cash and trashed his house (mortgaged)

Then came the letter confirming he had been given someone else's diagnosis by mistake..

[XR Craig]

I wish Ford would hurry up, dose anyone know the date of the conference launch

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The crazy thing is that so many people are so focused on you could die tomorrow that they fail to plan for living.

This x100000000000

When I was a student I lived week to week, now that I can save, I do.
And hey, what's the worst that happens? I die and mum gets some money she sure as hell could use? Good.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

If we only live once, and we could die tomorrow, what use is the investment property, or the big bank balance for that matter. Imagine living life based purely on logic: marrying the worst person for their wealth, staying sngle because nobody can be trusted and divorces always happen, not having any children because each one you don't have is a million saved over the next 2 decades, staying indoors all the time for fear of skin cancer, not driving because you are more likely to be killed in a road accident than in a plane crash or driving a camry hybrid because it is reliable and economical. Have to make at least some decisions emotionally in life, or what is the point of living

And this is where some people just don't get it...

The investment property (or any investment for that matter) that you bought instead of the GTP, if structured properly, could pay the insurance, rego, petrol, interest and maintenance of your Focus, leaving you to be able to better afford your GTP. OK there may be some FBT to be paid if the car is used for personal purposes, but you're still better off in most circumstances.

Buying an investment isn't just about thinking for tomorrow at the cost of 'living' today. It's about being able to afford your toys (like your GTP) without it actually needing to come out of your own pocket.

Look at Rich Dad Robert Kiyosaki. He has multiple cars - Lamborghinis, Ferraris, you name it. Before he buys any of them, he purchases an investment that will give him the income to pay for them without having to do so out of his own pocket.

Every "Toy" (a car, a boat etc.) has an "Asset" (A house, a business) paying for it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by imugli

And this is where some people just don't get it...

The investment property (or any investment for that matter) that you bought instead of the GTP, if structured properly, could pay the insurance, rego, petrol, interest and maintenance of your Focus, leaving you to be able to better afford your GTP. OK there may be some FBT to be paid if the car is used for personal purposes, but you're still better off in most circumstances.

FBT is now fixed at 20% of the purchase cost for the first four years,
on a GTP that's like $16,000 tax per year...

I understand what you're trying to say but unless you have the cash to completely own the assets you're buying,
you're not going to have as much income as you think as most growth comes from capital gains on property,
most people financing investments either negative gear or break even not much income from them at all...

[XR Craig]

Oh god who cares if you want it and can afford it just buy it.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hmm

Toyota make/made Supra, NSX, GT86 and under the name LEXUS made ISF, LFA

Ford make/made Taurus, Mondeo, Fusion, KA, Fiesta, Festiva

So which of those are "white goods on wheels"?

Nice way to leave out the good cars Ford currently make, and the great ones they have made in times past. For every great car Toyota has ever made, Ford would have made three.

Ford has lost it's way, and is now only interested in a streamlined, uniform design of bland, FWD, volume money makers. The company may have been in the best position it ever has been in since One Ford, but at least the cars weren't trading in soul and character for it.