Open Speed Limit Highway in NT???

[Ben73]

You can't go more then 130 otherwise you will be dead. Just like how everyone in Germany is dead.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

and that can be proved where?

I live here , I talk to people all the time. People are constantly telling of the time it takes to get from ASP to DWN and how it now involves a night time drive. Before the 130 you could, if yo chose to, do the trip in day light hours. The emergency workers that I know have told me of the increase in fatigue related accidents, they always get written up as eccessive speed.


In relation to statistics, best you check the link I put up, the Territory Government link I mean. I think you will start to see a decrease, to me at a cursory glance I reckon there could be a downward trend occuring, but time will tell.

If the speed limit is all mighty at reducing road trauma, then how do you explain 2007, 2008. There was a small drop after that but the numbers are getting back up again.

Here is a summary for 2010.

http://www.pfes.nt.gov.au/Media-Cent...l-wrap-up.aspx

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

and that can be proved where?


In relation to statistics, best you check the link I put up, the Territory Government link I mean. I think you will start to see a decrease, to me at a cursory glance I reckon there could be a downward trend occuring, but time will tell.

The same place it can be disproved.

Yes there is a slighly downward trend. If it continues at the same rate it will be down pre 130 road toll in another 10 years or so.

There will be a HUGE amount of pressure on this.

There is no actual physical evidence anywhere in Australia on what happens when speed limits are raised significantly just the constant dogma pushed by the academics and their financers.

If, where the limit is raised, the toll drops there will be a lot of questions that need to be answered and a lot of "experts" will be shown up.

Therefore the only way that the "experts" can protect themselves in to make sure that it never happens.

It is the bully principle. Threaten and cause fear and you will get your way until someone stands up to you and knocks you down.
The best way to never be knocked down is to ensure that no-one ever gets a chance to stand up to you......

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Ben73

You can't go more then 130 otherwise you will be dead. Just like how everyone in Germany is dead.

That doesn't even warrant a comment, suffice to say, google accidents on the autobahn

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by flappist

The same place it can be disproved.

Yes there is a slighly downward trend. If it continues at the same rate it will be down pre 130 road toll in another 10 years or so.

There will be a HUGE amount of pressure on this.

There is no actual physical evidence anywhere in Australia on what happens when speed limits are raised significantly just the constant dogma pushed by the academics and their financers.

If, where the limit is raised, the toll drops there will be a lot of questions that need to be answered and a lot of "experts" will be shown up.

Therefore the only way that the "experts" can protect themselves in to make sure that it never happens.

It is the bully principle. Threaten and cause fear and you will get your way until someone stands up to you and knocks you down.
The best way to never be knocked down is to ensure that no-one ever gets a chance to stand up to you......

As a former VicSES road accident rescuer, I can tell you that when a car hits a pole/tree at 100km/h there is significant damage and injury, but when that same car hits that same pole/tree at much higher speeds there is significantly more damage and injury, I didn't think you needed to be Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton to work that out.

People are currently struggling to come to grips with driving now given their level of ability and concentration.

This is not an argument about speed limits, this is an argument about compliance with simple rules, this is about I want everything now, it is about I need to be somwhere NOW, oh so typical of the NOW generation.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

As a former VicSES road accident rescuer, I can tell you that when a car hits a pole/tree at 100km/h there is significant damage and injury, but when that same car hits that same pole/tree at much higher speeds there is significantly more damage and injury, I didn't think you needed to be Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton to work that out.

People are currently struggling to come to grips with driving now given their level of ability and concentration.

Bugger all tree's / posts on the roads where the (//) is being proposed,Trev. BTW, if the (//) does come back here, its is still voluntary as to what speed you travel at. Please accept that on the right roads and the right conditions that speed can be safely managed. Pre 1/1/2007 my chosen cruise speed solo was 200kph and with SWMBO and kids it was 160kph. We never had any situation where we were in any kind of danger. And as far as I know we are all still alive and kicking.

I can understand your reservations, knowing your background, but we can't keep on making laws that draw back to the lowest common denominator ie brainless hoons. They are best taken out of the gene pool anyway.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

As a former VicSES road accident rescuer, I can tell you that when a car hits a pole/tree at 100km/h there is significant damage and injury, but when that same car hits that same pole/tree at much higher speeds there is significantly more damage and injury, I didn't think you needed to be Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton to work that out.

People are currently struggling to come to grips with driving now given their level of ability and concentration.

This is not an argument about speed limits, this is an argument about compliance with simple rules, this is about I want everything now, it is about I need to be somwhere NOW, oh so typical of the NOW generation.

Then a simple question Trev.

Two cars, one a XY Falcon the other FG Falcon hit the same immovable tree, the XY at 100km/h the FG at 150km/h.

Which occupants have the best chance of surviving?

Change the speeds to 60 & 100, speed is not the only factor in road trauma and remember that travelling from one end of Victoria to the other is just a trip to the shops in NT, WA or western QLD.

Technology has come a long way.....

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by flappist

Then a simple question Trev.

Two cars, one a XY Falcon the other FG Falcon hit the same immovable tree, the XY at 100km/h the FG at 150km/h.

Which occupants have the best chance of surviving?

Change the speeds to 60 & 100, speed is not the only factor in road trauma and remember that travelling from one end of Victoria to the other is just a trip to the shops in NT, WA or western QLD.

Technology has come a long way.....

Or even a used Territory vs a brand new Cherri, Great Wall, or Hyundai Getz...

[fatcorty]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Before you make a statement like that, best you do a bit of research that entails more than one year.

Here is a place to start: http://www.roadsafety.nt.gov.au/tran...ts/index.shtml, scroll to the bottom, there are statistics that go back further if you want them. So far to me there has been very little change, but this year that could change.

I think it was January 2007 when the speed limit dropped to 130km/h

I fail to see anything in that link that shows any data on the roads in question, just an overall statistic.

As for the NOW generation comments what has that got to do with the topic at hand????

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes but that got all murky a few years ago when they became self governing.

1976 i think, we lived in Nhulunbuy at the time.

taken from National Archives:
"As the 1970s opened, Territorians pressed on towards the goal of self-government. In 1970 Cabinet agreed to a joint study on Northern Territory political and administrative arrangements. It did, however, caution that 'so long as the Commonwealth is providing the bulk of the funds involved it must retain control of decisions as to how and where this money is to be spent"

anyway, i hope sanity prevails and the major roads in the NT are returned to their rightful deregulations

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Bugger all tree's / posts on the roads where the (//) is being proposed,Trev. BTW, if the (//) does come back here, its is still voluntary as to what speed you travel at. Please accept that on the right roads and the right conditions that speed can be safely managed. Pre 1/1/2007 my chosen cruise speed solo was 200kph and with SWMBO and kids it was 160kph. We never had any situation where we were in any kind of danger. And as far as I know we are all still alive and kicking.

I can understand your reservations, knowing your background, but we can't keep on making laws that draw back to the lowest common denominator ie brainless hoons. They are best taken out of the gene pool anyway.

excellent reply mate.
i think some people just don't get it when they haven't been there to experience it.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

excellent reply mate.
i think some people just don't get it when they haven't been there to experience it.

Thaks mate, one of our (Teritorians) pet hate, is east coast chardonay sippers telling us how to live. We are the same people living in vastly differnet conditions. I would aslo include those living in northern WA and parts of QLD. But having just said that, QLD roads are the worst in the country. Speed limits there are definately justified....

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

If the speed limit is all mighty at reducing road trauma, then how do you explain 2007, 2008. There was a small drop after that but the numbers are getting back up again.

Here is a summary for 2010.

http://www.pfes.nt.gov.au/Media-Cent...l-wrap-up.aspx

a small drop?, it went from (2008), 75 to (2009), 31.

The numbers for the NT are small and averaging 50 in the last 10 years. They aren't going to be exactly 50 every year and trying to attach significance to the +/-10 each year is really just guess work.

I suppose the data you are after is has there been any change on the roads that have been "downgraded" to 130km/h, don't know, the data doesnt appear to be available.

[Auslandau]

If things settle a bit and have a good conversation about the topic, a thread related to speed might survive 3 pages without a warning issued and another thread closed!

[Bunyip04]

The de-restriction should definitely be brought back in, i've done the stretch up and down the stuart (all the way to Pt Augusta) quite a few times in the last 2yrs, and across the barkly also, In my own car and different variations of mil veh's, and IMO the stuart hwy is perfectly safe in alot of areas to have the de-restriction, and the Barkly most definitely needs to be more (that's one dead straight boring piece of road).

As mentioned, it's all up to a person knowing their veh and limits, if someone crashes and burns resulting in a loss of their own life to being stupid, they would recieve no sympathy from me....

As for the QLD end of the line, the 110km/h speed limit is VERY reasonable!!

From my experience the biggest dangers are mostly the greay nomads!! And some of the veh's they use to tow carravans!! Oh and the idiots that have absoluteley no idea how to overtake safely or efficiently, and wandering livestock of course.

One word that ALL drivers should know.... ANTICIPATION..

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by sudszy

a small drop?, it went from (2008), 75 to (2009), 31.

The numbers for the NT are small and averaging 50 in the last 10 years. They aren't going to be exactly 50 every year and trying to attach significance to the +/-10 each year is really just guess work.

I suppose the data you are after is has there been any change on the roads that have been "downgraded" to 130km/h, don't know, the data doesnt appear to be available.

It looks to me that over the last two or three years there has been less traffic up here. Definately less grey nomads and I think less tourists (sadly). We have been hit hard by the GFC like the rest of the Aussie tourist industry. The NT intervention has also caused too may indiginous folk out of their remote homes and into places like the Alice , Tennant and Katherine. The number in Darwin has also gone up. This has had the effect of keeping them away from the main Highways. The indiginous people in the road toll up here is way over represented. They make up about 15% of the population and constantly account for around 50% of the road toll. Given the condition of the cars they drive, any speed above walking pace is dangerous. This is where the political correctness up here is killing people. It would be easy to set up random road blocks and check every car that passes thru and put the bombs off the road. But the only road side police presence up here is with a money gun. They ignore the wrecks that drive by. If we could halve the road toll up here on a permanant basis, that would be a good thing.... no.??

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It looks to me that over the last two or three years there has been less traffic up here. Definately less grey nomads and I think less tourists (sadly). We have been hit hard by the GFC like the rest of the Aussie tourist industry. The NT intervention has also caused too may indiginous folk out of their remote homes and into places like the Alice , Tennant and Katherine. The number in Darwin has also gone up. This has had the effect of keeping them away from the main Highways. The indiginous people in the road toll up here is way over represented. They make up about 15% of the population and constantly account for around 50% of the road toll. Given the condition of the cars they drive, any speed above walking pace is dangerous. This is where the political correctness up here is killing people. It would be easy to set up random road blocks and check every car that passes thru and put the bombs off the road. But the only road side police presence up here is with a money gun. They ignore the wrecks that drive by. If we could halve the road toll up here on a permanant basis, that would be a good thing.... no.??

Grey nomads getting less??? I'm going to have to disagree on that one, on my way down to Woomera earlier this year, in the arvo at the end of everyday, places like Banka Banka, and even just well set up rest areas, were FULL of em!! haha. It was amazing, i'd never seen anything like it, and they were all heading north. Coober Pedy was full on the way there and back too, haha.

As for the road toll, it would be great if we could reduce it by half indeed!! My opinion on 'one way' of doing it, is to re-test everyone's driving abillity maybe every 4-5 yrs? The standard of people driving on the road in a lot of places (regardless of state) is appalling... IMO, some sort of re-test system would help a LOT.
But... Then with less bad drivers committing offences, would lead to less fines... And we can't have that....

Oh and on the subject of speed, one good superintendant, Bob Rennie, once told us (in a road awareness gathering) there is such thing as "sensibly stupid", and i totally agree...

[FGII-XR6]

as a territory it is more answerable to the feds than states are thats why the NT euthenasia laws were overturned by the feds it would have been harder to do that with a state

Originally Posted by flappist

Well this it a states rights issue.

I am fairly confident the other states will not allow a precedent set with Feds over-riding road rules as that would potentially give them direct access to the "money cameras"......

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

As a former VicSES road accident rescuer, I can tell you that when a car hits a pole/tree at 100km/h there is significant damage and injury, but when that same car hits that same pole/tree at much higher speeds there is significantly more damage and injury, I didn't think you needed to be Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton to work that out.

You don't need to be a former VicSES road accident rescuer to work that out do you ?

In my experience any vehicle hitting an imovable object whether it be a tree, pole, retaining wall or whatever at 100km/h or more has always resulted in fatalities.

IMO the fatigue risk is greater than the speed risk.

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

Oh and on the subject of speed, one good superintendant, Bob Rennie, once told us (in a road awareness gathering) there is such thing as "sensibly stupid", and i totally agree...

wow Bob Rennie, now there's a name i haven't heard for ages. he did some time in Nhulunbuy just after i got my licence. he was a good bloke. last time i saw him was during one of my Tech blocks in Darwin around 1984. he canaried our car but then gave us an hour to get it off the road

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

IMO the fatigue risk is greater than the speed risk.

Agreed.

[EgoFG]

Speaking as someone who has broken the law and paid the financial and points price, and driven a LOT of country miles - Fatigue at lower speeds is much more dangerous than speed itself.

I have said it before, and prolly will again, Speed does not cause accidents without another cause. Granted, it does make them worse, but reducing speed limits, and enforcing them will only ever be a symptomatic cure.

Instead we could look at the actual cause of accidents, and correct that.

Driving at 120 kmph does NOT make you run into trees.

[flappist]

Big picture here guys.

None of the pro or anti open limits members can do anything about it unless they live in NT and vote in the next territory election.
Of course if Katter gets command in QLD in March we may just beat them to it.

So whether it will be nirvana or the apocalypse, only time will tell.

I am really looking forward to all the spin doctoring if the results are not as predicted.

[Bucknaked]

I'll be heading to Darwin in December. 130 kph. Cant wait. Guess I just need to watch out for children around schools ))

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I'll be heading to Darwin in December. 130 kph. Cant wait. Guess I just need to watch out for children around schools ))

If you have not been up there before it will be a real eye opener and you may get a whole new view of the posts made in this thread.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by flappist

If you have not been up there before it will be a real eye opener and you may get a whole new view of the posts made in this thread.

I've never driven in the NT before. I'll actually be heading down to Katherine for about 4 days before heading back to Darwin.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I've never driven in the NT before. I'll actually be heading down to Katherine for about 4 days before heading back to Darwin.

If you are riding, take water. IT IS BLOODY HOT.

My OAT gauge on the GT-P read 48 degrees last time I was there.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by flappist

If you are riding, take water. IT IS BLOODY HOT.

My OAT gauge on the GT-P read 48 degrees last time I was there.

Hiring a car. It's family trip to visit my mum for her birthday.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

wow Bob Rennie, now there's a name i haven't heard for ages. he did some time in Nhulunbuy just after i got my licence. he was a good bloke. last time i saw him was during one of my Tech blocks in Darwin around 1984. he canaried our car but then gave us an hour to get it off the road

haha yeah sounds like him, he was tellin us about all his hoon stories from when he rode bikes when he was younger, the briefing that we were there for was quite interesting, was about road accidents and all the factors involved, had some pretty gorey pics, they had a trauma nurse there telling us her side of the experiences too.... Was a real eye opener, that anyone with a licence should definitely have to see...

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Hiring a car. It's family trip to visit my mum for her birthday.

Hire car, hey - they love high speed cruising!