refill gas bottles

[Gobes32]

Can't you buy natural gas adapters for your bbq? Seems the easier option.

[poppa smurf]

when I build our "outdoor kitchen" I will be looking at getting the barbie rejetted for natural gas and feed it straight from the system

but for the moment that is on the "one day" list

[saam]

AU3XR6, thanks mate , you seem to know a whole lot about nothing .....

I think you should become a spokes person for darwin awards, since thats all you seem to rabble on about

[saam]

Yes guys it looks to be the easier option to connect a natual gas connection to the bbq area

Saves alot of stuffing around i think

[poppa smurf]

I've heard about some blokes on a different forum speak about refilling the gas bottles from the servo's.....often wondered!

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by saam

AU3XR6, thanks mate , you seem to know a whole lot about nothing .....

I think you should become a spokes person for darwin awards, since thats all you seem to rabble on about

actually I know plenty about if I researched it a while back ( with the idea of saving money) and found out how dangerous it is so I abandoned the idea do do otherwise would have been foolish in light of what I had found out. I was trying to warn of the dangers of this practice. there have been past fatalities and serious injuries.
there is no need to be sarcastic and condecending

[saam]

As i have stated before, you know a whole lot about nothing....

All in all you state you did all this research and yet you continue to blabber on about nothing....

The practice is still being done TODAY

I also know for a FACT that some people in the country areas also get their bottles filled both for their homes and their bbq gas at the servo..

They tell me the people who come to refill their gas bottles charge over $200 for the service

So in these tough times they have decided to do something about it

[FGII-XR6]

doesn't make it legal. people drink drive all the time but it is not legal. filling a cylinder from a car bowser is illegal and dangerous. the difference between you and I is i can put my point across without throwing insults around.

[yakcam]

I wish there was a cheaper option for us. We've got one of those huge bottles connected to the house to run the ducted heating. We had it set to 18 degrees, timed to run about 5 hours a day-and it was costing us $175 pw... We told Elgas not to fill it again, but we'll still have to pay for the rental of the bottle, $75 per 1/4.

Last winter we froze to save money.

For some reason, our house doesn't have a wood heater, so I want to put one in, but my wife has her heart set on one of those through the wall ones (our house is kind of split into 2 areas) and they cost a fortune.

I just wish it wasn't so bloody expensive to run the heater, it's the only thing on gas in the house.

Cheers,

Kraig

[poppa smurf]

mate when you look at wood heaters have a look at the alternative fuels......my SIL just had one of those "pellet" heaters put in.....very schmick and not too hard on the pocket

also if you have a funny shaped house ask your installer about heat shifters (can't remember the correct name)....it's a set of ducts that sit in the ceiling with a small fan that moves the heat from one area of the house to another

[saam]

Nothing dangerous about refilling your bbq bottle via a servo bowser, thats how it was done not too long ago and some people still do it

I remember doing it at a servo years ago and the attendant would come out in a differnt section of the servo and refill it for you

When a cars gas cylinder is over 10 years old and needs to be restamped, what do they change? A regulator (something like that ) and thats about it
Good for another 10 years

some people are making some very stupid money while others contribute nothing to society but blabber

[mik]

what are the laws with fork lift bottles?

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by saam

Nothing dangerous about refilling your bbq bottle via a servo bowser, thats how it was done not too long ago and some people still do it

You just don't get it do you? You want to do things your way and to hell with anybody else just to save a couple of miserable dollars. Too bad if you ** up and kill or injure others.

Cylinders designed for decanting 9kg of less have a very thin cylinder wall thickness when compared to larger bottles which are pumped in under pressure the same as a vehicle LPG bowser. They have different safety mechanisms.

The laws are there to protect people from injury from stupid acts like those that your promoting, not to stop you saving a dollar.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by mik

what are the laws with fork lift bottles?

Fork lift bottles exist under a special clause in the standard to do with removable bottles exclusively used for vehicle use. They must be designed to be not capable of attachment to standard LPG fittings or appliances. Forklifts are generally a liquid draw system with a liquid to gas phase convertor.

[scoupedy]

Ive been told that you can't use auto gas in bbq as too explosive? ??
We have a swap and go bottle and swap it if we are in a hurry or mitre 10 fill it up if we are not in a hurry and is cheaper

[scoupedy]

remember that an auto tank is 80l and the 9kg bottle is around 8-10l so how would you transport the full bottle? so dangerous

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

remember that an auto tank is 80l and the 9kg bottle is around 8-10l so how would you transport the full bottle? so dangerous

9.6kg (approx) = 25 litres - This is taken from the Aus Standard.

[MrEL]

The reason why you cant use auto gas to run household appliances is the fact that in the city Autogas has a high Butane content which the fumes of burning is toxic.
As touch on earlier household gas is propane and Autogas int he country generally has a high propane content due to using the same stuff.
Propane isnt as toxic when burnt as Butane.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by yakcam

I wish there was a cheaper option for us. We've got one of those huge bottles connected to the house to run the ducted heating. We had it set to 18 degrees, timed to run about 5 hours a day-and it was costing us $175 pw... We told Elgas not to fill it again, but we'll still have to pay for the rental of the bottle, $75 per 1/4.

Last winter we froze to save money.

For some reason, our house doesn't have a wood heater, so I want to put one in, but my wife has her heart set on one of those through the wall ones (our house is kind of split into 2 areas) and they cost a fortune.

I just wish it wasn't so bloody expensive to run the heater, it's the only thing on gas in the house.

Cheers,

Kraig

Looked into wood heating?

[saam]

[QUOTE=MarkAW]You just don't get it do you? You want to do things your way and to hell with anybody else just to save a couple of miserable dollars. Too bad if you ** up and kill or injure others.

MarkAW, thanks for stating the dam obvious, you must be a professor of the irrelevant.

I dont think I ever stated that i wanted to do it. Ive said it used to be done in the past. Maybe read before you post rubbish

A forklift tank is another issue we have here. There are people to come to you and replace your forlift tank, then there are people to refill them at the servo for a third of the price

I know some people that use their forklift bottles as bbq cylinders as they are easier to transport around

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by saam

At first i had the idea of getting a second hand car gas tank and filling that up with normal gas from the servo and using it to replace my bbq swap and go bottle

Has anyone filled their 8.5 kilo bbq gas bottle from a servo? I know once this was done around 10 years ago, now its all swap and go

Does anyone still take their bottle to their sevo and fill it themselves?

Really - the above is what started this thread or are you illiterate and don't understand what you write?

[Professor Farnsworth]

this is helping no-one.

[Professor Farnsworth]

re-opened for more info to be posted shortly by another member..

no name calling is needed here, anyone instigating it again will receive a warning

play nice, keep it an informative thread.

saam: in reply to your email message - it was closed due to the bickering and condescension, which you were the main perpetrator of.

[Full Noise]

It always concerns me when I read about people wanting to make adaptors so they can fill BBQ bottles at bowsers. Carkrz, Pcman and MarkAW have pretty much summed everything up.

I’ll just throw a few figures out there for people to consider if things go pear shaped.

For those not familiar with the properties of propane, the expansion ratio is approximately 1:273.

A 9KG BBQ bottle holds just over 17 litres of liquid because the density is around 0.51.
17.3 litres of liquid will expand to form 273 times that amount in vapour.
17.3 x 273 = 4,725 litres of vapour.
Because this 4,725 litres is to rich to burn, the vapour mixes with air to create an explosive mixture at a ratio of around 5% vapour to 95% air.
What we do now is multiply 4,725 Litres of vapour by 95% air. This will give us what’s known as the total explosive content.

4,725 x 95 = 448,874

That’s nearly half a million cubic litres of explosive atmosphere from a 9KG BBQ bottle. This is more than enough to blow up an average size house.

Generally, rules are put in place to protect people from harming themselves and others. It isn’t all about saving a few dollars on filling the BBQ bottle.

In my opinion, if you use the correct bottle that is designed for the device you are using it with and follow the correct procedures, the chances of anything going wrong are minimal. When you start using different blends, 50/50, 60/40 or 70/30 in something that’s designed solely for propane, you’re asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by mik

what are the laws with fork lift bottles?

Leave the forklift bottles for forks and leave auto cylinders for cars. Also, forklift bottles are designed to be used only when they are on their side and facing the right way.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

one other thing about those swap and go bottles.....they are never full!...rip off!

They’re not supposed to be full. There has to be some ullage space to allow for expansion, so they’ll generally fill them to around 85%, so if it’s around 85%, it’s full.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

For those not familiar with the properties of propane, the expansion ratio is approximately 1:273.

Full Noise
As a tech question can I ask where you got the 273 ratio above? Is this just the compressed gas volume (P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2 @ standard conditions) or does it also consider any change of volume due to thermal conditions cause that will blow the ratio by 1.5 for every 10 degrees C

[Full Noise]

The expansion ratio from my understanding is just an industry standard, along the same lines as density as a standard.

Depending on who you ask, the expansion rate can vary from 1:270 to 1:273. With the density of propane of around .505 to .510, 60/40 (propane / butane) at around .530 to .538 and 50/50 at around .540, you can just about guarantee that all of the different mixes will fall close to the 270 to 273 mark regardless of their temperature or pressure that they’re under.

Carkrz may have a more technical explanation and may be able to explain better than me.

Cheers

[saam]

Yes i beleive i have an adaptor to fill up these small cylinder bottles at a servo but have never been game enough to try it

You cant even fill up the car cylinder bottles full becasue it does allow room for expansion

And my own personal oppinion on some things is that people will throw out all sorts or rubbish at you just to justify paying 10 times the amout that you should

[AU1XLS]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Full Noise
As a tech question can I ask where you got the 273 ratio above? Is this just the compressed gas volume (P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2 @ standard conditions) or does it also consider any change of volume due to thermal conditions cause that will blow the ratio by 1.5 for every 10 degrees C

Liquid to vapour ratio stays the same regardless of temp its the volume that changes. Most volumes, weight & qty are quoted at a corrected temperature of 15 degrees
Propane liquid to vapour ratio is 1:273 Butane 1:233, auto mix would be any where in between depending on Propane/Butane Ratio

[AU1XLS]

Originally Posted by MrEL

The reason why you cant use auto gas to run household appliances is the fact that in the city Autogas has a high Butane content which the fumes of burning is toxic.
As touch on earlier household gas is propane and Autogas int he country generally has a high propane content due to using the same stuff.
Propane isnt as toxic when burnt as Butane.

In part yes but you also have to change jet sizes due the differences in specific gravity between the two gases

When you fill a bottle at a servo from a dispenser designed to fill cars what mix exactly are you getting? Not a guessing game I would like to play

[AU1XLS]

Originally Posted by Springfield_Johny

What about using one of the tall home lpg bottles and filling from a servo? Wife's workmates husband does this, reckons it costs him stuff all to refill his cylinders and he uses this method for his BBQ and his house gas. It costs over $100 to get an exchange has bottle for home. It sounds like a cheap solution, we go through around 4 big gas bottles a year at a cost of around $130 each replacement. If I could fill them myself for $0.70/litre I'd save a fortune

As above when filling at a servo what mix are you putting in your bottle? Propane which your appliances are jetted and regulated to run on or an automix?