How the hell is v8 Supercars going to help our local market

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Thanks for the input guys and helping me understand.

No v8s and green power, feels like the 1980's all over again.

Except that there are new V8s for sale now and lots of low mileage used versions...

[OCTANEBOSS]

I think a lot of people have lost interest in V8 Supercars. I have anyway, maybe getting to old. There just expensive machines that do not reflect the current Australian car made here except in shape only. COTF is here next year and the Teams with the cash will do alright, when people say it will be cheaper they are full of it. Its about appealing to all those that dont like Fords or Holdens, Personally I would like to see road cars race like the earlier days with the safety features and certain controlled mods. To see a locally made tricked 335 gt/or phoon worked up against an HSV the same and any other local made car have a go on the track would be OK. The Blue Oval would have it in the bag lol, but Im am a bit one-eyed. Who won today anyway?...just did the 82.5 thou service

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by redloamrules

Personally I would like to see road cars race like the earlier days with the safety features and certain controlled mods.

Here you go, 5 catagories offering just that.

APCC/Australian Manufacturers championship

The Australian Manufacturers Championship, incorporating the Australian Production Car Championship for drivers, allows a wide-ranging list of vehicles sold in the domestic automotive market to take to the track and compete for a prestigious CAMS title.

Improved Production

Improved Production, formerly known as 3J Club Cars. It is classified by CAMS as category 3J. An Improved Production car is loosely based on a modified road car, and is made popular by the fact that it is fast and relatively inexpensive, as far as race cars go. Starting out with a production body shell, and then carrying out substantial modifications to engines, brakes and suspension

NSW Production Touring cars

While some modifications are allowed to improve safety on the track and handling, the category is designed for standard production cars in Australia and, as such, the cars are very similar to their road going counterparts.

Street Car Racing

Street Cars are high performance race vehicles based on production road cars. The Street Car regulations allow a great deal of freedom in modifying engines, brakes and suspension while limiting the addition of aerodynamic aids and body modifications to keep them easily identifiable by the motoring public - hence the name 'Street Cars'

Production Racing Cars

With a broad range of manufacturers represented, Production Racing Cars truly is a fantastic showcase for the car makers - providing the opportunity to demonstrate who makes the best car. It's a great category for drivers too - with the minimal modification allowed, it comes down to the driver being able to find a balance between getting the most out of a car, and having enough mechanical sympathy to get the car to the end of the race.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Sums up just about every racing catagory...even production cars...ad money and it's more the truth.


What does it matter?

Nothing.


Thundering 4 door V8's, banging doors, sliding though corners...noise and fury.

Nothing wrong with that.

i think that is some of what is missing in super cars, in the old days it was tooth and nail racing most of the time, there`s no denying at times one car led almost from start to finish and it was boring racing on occasions too, but the good races where good no doubt about it,

it could be the race as well as the the cars are just too clinical and precise these days, they have big buck teams to manage them,
they rarely break down, they almost never run out of fuel, rarely at the end of the race is there more than a couple of cars with a bit of panel damage, these modern blokes are driving around with power steering for gods sake,

drivers are more puppets these days , they rarely make in car decisions other than what gear should i be in, all engine systems are monitored for them, they know everything going on around the track via radio from their team, perhaps with the new cars some uncertainty might add some flavor again to the super cars.
maybe letting drivers make some decisions in car bringing it back a little closer the old days without radio`s except for dangerous crash situations might be a good thing.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Sprint

First off , i know competition can produce a better product but can we really compete on a world market?.I think a world market would crush our Aussie cars and the indentity of the Australian car.

I can see Nissan as being "a adverage mans car", but really Mercedes AMG. Who the hell is going to benafit from them?The rich mans team?the executive team?.

How will this all help sell more fords and holdens?, why are they talking this up to be so great?



Comments please.

P.s Mods.. I would like this thread to stay in the pub section and not motorsport section, I see this problem as a marketing one, never mind silly promo 100k cop cars, this will have far more effect on sales.

It is 2012 not 1972. The only group that see an upsurge in sales after a big win at Bathurst etc. is "Motor Finance Wizard" as anyone who is smart enough to not buy through them is smart enough to understand just what V8SC really is............
A mixture of "World Championship Wrestling", "State of Origin", "My Kitchen Rules" and "The Block" with wheels.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by mik

drivers are more puppets these days , they rarely make in car decisions other than what gear should i be in, all engine systems are monitored for them, they know everything going on around the track via radio from their team, perhaps with the new cars some uncertainty might add some flavor again to the super cars.
maybe letting drivers make some decisions in car bringing it back a little closer the old days without radio`s except for dangerous crash situations might be a good thing.

To quote flappist:

Originally Posted by flappist

It is 2012 not 1972.

Stop thinking of the 'good ole days' because we almost always look at them through our rose coloured glasses. It most certainly wasn't great racing at all.

There is so much money in the sport that technology and innovation form a big part of the appeal, just like NRL, AFL, Cricket, Tennis plus every other sport on the planet!

Originally Posted by mik

Rarely at the end of the race is there more than a couple of cars with a bit of panel damage.

Have you watched a V8 race recently? Half the bloody grid ends the race with panel damage!!

Originally Posted by mik

maybe letting drivers make some decisions in car bringing it back a little closer the old days without radio`s except for dangerous crash situations might be a good thing.

L-O-L with this comment.

Drivers make a LOT of decisions but at the end of the day their pit crew will have all the data they need to make the right decision for him. It's all about winning or getting in a position to win.

[robbyj]

Originally Posted by mik

drivers are more puppets these days

Not having a go at you or anything, but racing is very physically demanding. They have to have full concentration for the entire race, and because the cars are so powerful and so fine tuned, a lack of concentration can result in a huge crash or losing the race etc etc

I'm buggered after doing maybe 20 laps of winton, in an AU! over the whole day! (and im the fittest bloke i know) I respect all kinds of drivers/racers, no matter what car they are driving and whether it has power steering or not.

So they are not merely puppets, they are highly skilled, highly fit athletes.

[Peuty]

I think he was more referring to their personalities mate

[The Yeti]

I have to say I'm looking forward to the changes

the days of grass roots racing getting prime time TV are in the past, Ive accepted it, but the Holden V Ford traveling roadshow I found increasingly more and more boreing.

I know this is the same traveling circus, but I'm hopeing there will be a few different clowns to make it entertaining

as for the local market, I dont know wether the wins monday sells monday thing is finished or if the marteting people with poney tails at ford and holden have just decided they arent interested in it but its hasnt been a priority for them for many years

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by robbyj

Not having a go at you or anything, but racing is very physically demanding. They have to have full concentration for the entire race, and because the cars are so powerful and so fine tuned, a lack of concentration can result in a huge crash or losing the race etc etc

I'm buggered after doing maybe 20 laps of winton, in an AU! over the whole day! (and im the fittest bloke i know) I respect all kinds of drivers/racers, no matter what car they are driving and whether it has power steering or not.

So they are not merely puppets, they are highly skilled, highly fit athletes.

They are puppets in a sporting sence as they simply go where the contract is and say what the sponcer says

that said you are very right when it comes to the physical fittness side of things, you only had to look at the cabin temps on Saturday to know that if you wernt physically up to the task you wernt going to last, the days were these guys could be a little tubby etc finished back when they had corolla's racing at Bathrust and they smoked the sponcers product

[mik]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

To quote flappist:



Stop thinking of the 'good ole days' because we almost always look at them through our rose coloured glasses. It most certainly wasn't great racing at all.

There is so much money in the sport that technology and innovation form a big part of the appeal, just like NRL, AFL, Cricket, Tennis plus every other sport on the planet!



Have you watched a V8 race recently? Half the bloody grid ends the race with panel damage!!



L-O-L with this comment.

Drivers make a LOT of decisions but at the end of the day their pit crew will have all the data they need to make the right decision for him. It's all about winning or getting in a position to win.

maybe i`m just getting too old :( , it just seems to lack the unpredictable nature and excitement of the old days racing, how often have we seen one driver from a leading team jump into the front spot and stay there for most if not all of the race? they have reduced the out put on the engines to a level where they rarely expire, the drivers rarely for an american term "screw the pooch" , because the the million dollar pit managers have sorted the strategy out for them, i probably sold the drivers short in their abilities and responsibility `s but it still lacks something for my money.

[mik]

Originally Posted by robbyj

Not having a go at you or anything, but racing is very physically demanding. They have to have full concentration for the entire race, and because the cars are so powerful and so fine tuned, a lack of concentration can result in a huge crash or losing the race etc etc

I'm buggered after doing maybe 20 laps of winton, in an AU! over the whole day! (and im the fittest bloke i know) I respect all kinds of drivers/racers, no matter what car they are driving and whether it has power steering or not.

So they are not merely puppets, they are highly skilled, highly fit athletes.

no offence taken ;), i probably deserve a good talking down at times anyway .

i put that badly, i have no doubt these blokes are very skilled and good athletes and still have a lot of responsibility in car , but it does seem though they are more of a cog in the machine than the drivers of times past, something is missing in todays racing, (maybe it`s my youth ), i still like racing but have trouble getting interested in supercar series, bathurst is the exception.

[302 XC]

I dont care what brands,makes ,models are running,they look nothin like whats avaliable to the public, they are that stretched from a production car as can be , and if bringing other makes and brands makes for exciting racing i mite consider watching the stuff
When the cosworths,skylines,jags gave the aussie stuff a run way back when it proved how far behind technology we are here
Anyone for a 15,20 year old lexus 4L 205 KW ,6 bolt main engine,see my point

Maybe they should rego the cars, drive em to the track and race like they done way way way back when to show how reliable or non reliable factory muscle is
Lets see what a 355 GT or an XR6T,or the best commodore can do on the track

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Maybe they should rego the cars, drive em to the track and race like they done way way way back when to show how reliable or non reliable factory muscle is
Lets see what a 355 GT or an XR6T,or the best commodore can do on the track

Not good...

Australian Manufacturers Championship - Race 2 SANDOWN


FPV GT up in seventh...bettering a GTS...


But a heap of EVO's and BMW all ahead of them...

[Mercury 8]

When will people catch on? Here is the giveaway clue - V8 Supercars. Not V8 production cars,as pointed out by Nikked above in post 33 there is plenty available to watch along those lines yet no one ever seems to???

[Fordman]

I rekon Ford showing up a merc will be good pr lol

[Nikked]

Van Gisbergen already showed us what he thinks of the germans lol

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by jpd80

DJR's engine builders have a bunch of Ford DOHC V8s they're working on...

Very interesting.
Is it known whether they are Coyotes or Boss?

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

When will people catch on? Here is the giveaway clue - V8 Supercars. Not V8 production cars,as pointed out by Nikked above in post 33 there is plenty available to watch along those lines yet no one ever seems to???

the V8 Utes are good fun

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Bonn

Very interesting.
Is it known whether they are Coyotes or Boss?

They are Coyotes but don't expect to see them in V8SC anytime soon IMO. With everything being parity based they will keep all engines at basically the same power levels, and with the current 5 litre Ford engine being so race proven its unlikely they will switch to an unproven Coyote, especially with the money required to make it totally reliable under racing conditions. There's just no advantage in doing so. The alloy Nissan engine will even have ballast added to match the weight of the cast iron block Fords and Chevs.

[LTDHO]

The cars are to fake to me and are too far removed from the car that is actially sold. Too much like NASCAR IMO.

Bring back the racing of the 80's. Cars were race version of dealer cars, there was a variety of brands. No sequential gearboxes or adjustable swaybars, the drivers had to actually 'drive' the car to get it to finish, not just be driven.

[2011G6E]

The link between the V8 supercar "Commodores" and "Falcons" has been tenuous and vague at best for many years now...they kind of look like them, but that's about all.

Back in the good old days of Bathurst and the racing series where everyone was let in, it didn't "kill" our Australian car market...what it did do was wake people up to the fact that there are interesting cars available from someone other than an Australian Ford or Holden...

Perhaps that's what the problem is...the bogans on the hill will be shell-shocked to realise that other vehicles actually exist besides the red and blue...that sort of happy occurrence hasn't happened since Godzilla stormed the series...

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

the drivers had to actually 'drive' the car to get it to finish, not just be driven.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

The cars are to fake to me and are too far removed from the car that is actially sold. Too much like NASCAR IMO.

Bring back the racing of the 80's. Cars were race version of dealer cars, there was a variety of brands. No sequential gearboxes or adjustable swaybars, the drivers had to actually 'drive' the car to get it to finish, not just be driven.

The major problem with that is that it will absolutely destroy the Holden/Ford legend.

How many would watch Bathurst to see the FPV GT & HSV GTS fighting it out for 27th place 15 laps behind the BMWs and EVOs etc.?
This is of course as long as they ban GTRs, Porsches, and any of the BMW/AUDI/MERC/Whatever supercars otherwise it would be 37th place 45 laps behind the leaders.

Don't believe that the Falcadores are so uncompetitive? Look at all the production car race results over the last 5 years......

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by flappist

Look at all the production car race results over the last 5 years......

It too hard for them to do...they won't even watch the Production car races...

Its the same old story

They want the V8's to be production based, even though there many classes out there that provide that...so Australia's top tier class is slow and dominated by EVO's...


Given that the V8sc' first grid consisted of 4 cars, and now is a worldwide, viewed by millions sport...i guess something must be right about it. Bringing the V8's closer to spec to DTM cars (not NASCAR sillies!) is only going to make it better.


Bring on 2013, lets see Pepsi Max FPR falcons dominate those Mercs, Nissans and what-them-calleds...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

The cars are to fake to me and are too far removed from the car that is actially sold. Too much like NASCAR IMO.

Bring back the racing of the 80's. Cars were race version of dealer cars, there was a variety of brands. No sequential gearboxes or adjustable swaybars, the drivers had to actually 'drive' the car to get it to finish, not just be driven.

See post #33

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Perhaps that's what the problem is...the bogans on the hill will be shell-shocked to realise that other vehicles actually exist besides the red and blue...that sort of happy occurrence hasn't happened since Godzilla stormed the series...

It'll also defuse the non-motor sport fans who tar all V8 fans as Bogans (that knob L.McDoodle on 2JJJ yesterday for instance), but you're right; the Bogans on the hill alsways seem to come over, especially if the driver/team are established - look at the cheers that went up for Johnny Goss in the '85 winning XJS - that really united the Blue/Red campos like none before, and the Nissan 'Pack of' reaction was mainly due to Dicky being in front, and the GTR being written off when the race was 'called', otherwise happy days...

[Tokyo Geoff]

Bring on 2013 I say! I thought there were some great races this year and can wait to see an AMG in the mix, btw how many C63s have sold this year compared to FG GTs? As for the old days, Brock winning by 6 laps was boring for ford fans IMO. As many have said they aren't really falcons or comodes anyway but who cares? I'd show up to watch to watch two fat chicks race for a bucket of KFC .
Geoff

[2011G6E]

It'll just bring to life what people have read about for years in motoring magazines with reviews of foreign performance cars.
I vividly remember some years back reading a review of the M3 BMW which had something ridiculous like 250kw+ out of a naturally aspirated small straight six...at the time big sixes here were struggling to put out 150kw.

I think bringing in more makes (albeit stil only V8's unfortunately) will bring in a whole new bunch of fans. There are plenty of BMW and Merc enthusiasts who follow those makes rabidly, even if they never owned one, the same as there are plenty of Ford and Holden supporters who have never and will never own a Holden or Ford V8.

[superyob]

The average V8 fan does not care if our local cars are 150 years behind the slick sewing machines available today. It is the Holden vs Ford rivalry that gets them excited. Dinosaur, rear wheel grunt!!! Not souless 'foreign to our culture' technology from the lands of far away...