Holden closure

[Perko]

I can accept the reports that losing Holden will affect many jobs and not just those directly at Holden. It is not a good thing and nobody wants to see their fellow Australian lose their job. However what the unions and other parties have failed to address is how is manufacturing going to continue? As stated by others, the Commodore sales levels are tanking, exactly like the Falcon. There is no other platform being produced long term that has been announced that will allow suitable economies of scale. The Cruze has been less than successful. Are union members going to put their money where their mouths are and start buying Commodores? Can't see it happening.

No amount of efficiencies or job wage cuts will save the fact that the Australia market is moving away from the large 4 door car. Supporters like me are a dying breed. The FH will be my last opportunity to purchase one. Ford Australia have asked for a handout but it is with research, something that has been growing and is sustainable. I have no dramas with Holden asking for money. Just prove to me that it is for something that I am going to get long term value out of. Not just prop a dying product up for a few more years longer than it deserves.

[BroadyFord]

Worse and worse...

Holden fears Australian government support will end in 2016

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ho...210-2z45a.html

Holden remains unconvinced that the federal government intends providing any further assistance to the industry after 2016, in a decision that would virtually guarantee its closure, according to sources close to the embattled car maker.
The new doubts are fuelling a worsening standoff, with Holden management refusing to reveal whether it plans to stay or go and the government taking the extraordinary step of writing to the company demanding ''immediate clarification'' even before its own Productivity Commission inquiry into the value of industry assistance issues an interim report next week.
Holden's managing director Mike Devereux fronted that very inquiry on Tuesday and, among other things, flatly denied that any decision to withdraw had already been taken in Detroit.
His defiance came as GM Holden continued to make clear it wants to see what the government is prepared to put forward in industry assistance after 2016 before it decides its future.
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With tempers fraying in Federal Parliament the opposition depicted the Coalition as callous ideologues for putting 50,000 jobs at risk.
Acting Prime Minister Warren Truss revealed he had written to Holden to demand clarification after intense speculation ''impacting on Holden's workers, their families and the supply chain''.
Acting Labor leader Tanya Plibersek told Parliament that from 2001 to 2012, Holden generated $32.7 billion of economic activity in Australia, and paid $21 billion to other companies while receiving $1.8 billion in subsidies.
She asked if the Treasurer, Joe Hockey, regarded 18 to 1 as an acceptable rate of return on investment. In response, a fired-up Mr Hockey confirmed the government's hardline approach, saying the best return on investment came from companies investing their own money rather than taxpayers'.
''Either you're here, or you're not,'' Mr Hockey said more-or-less directly to the American-owned manufacturer.
''We have put another billion dollars on the table from 2015 … there's a hell of a lot of industries in Australia that would love to get the assistance that the motor vehicle industry is getting.''
The worsening political row also saw the government lash out at both Holden and the opposition for the widespread speculation over the company's future, even as members of the government added to that uncertainty.
Meanwhile the Victorian government has issued its sternest warning to Canberra yet that it wants Holden to keep making cars in Australia. ''We believe that Commonwealth assistance should continue over the next 10 years,'' Victorian Manufacturing Minister David Hodgett said on Tuesday.
Victoria would be hit hard if the car manufacturing industry shuts down in Australia, with an estimated 25,000 jobs lost and a 1.4 per cent fall in gross regional product by 2018. The government has ruled out new money for the Australian car industry, and also committed to a half-billion-dollar cut to funding over the next two years.
In his letter to Mr Devereux, Mr Truss said: ''I note your statement today that 'there's been no decision made at this point'.
''However, your comments failed to provide a commitment that Holden will remain in Australia well into the future. Instead, your comments merely confirmed that a decision to end manufacturing in Australia remains a live option and has not been ruled out.''
It came after Mr Devereux rejected all speculation the company had already decided to leave Australia. ''No decision has been made,'' he told the inquiry.
Over the past 12 years, Holden has averaged $153 million in taxpayer funding each year. It has simultaneously over that period averaged yearly profits of $50 million.
Mr Devereux was asked whether the company could survive without government support. He said he could not ''predict what that future would look like'', but that the car industry generated huge returns for any public investment made.
He also pointed to the mining and property industries, both of which get taxpayer subsidies. ''The $3 billion a year that goes into mining companies … I'm not criticising that,'' he said, ''or $5 billion in subsidies for negative gearing''.
If Holden were to stop manufacturing cars in Australia, it would almost certainly force Toyota to follow suit because the components manufacturers that are vital to the industry would not be able to achieve economies of scale.

[nstg8a]

Its a common comment made that if/when Holden goes, Toyota will follow very soon. But does this really need to be the case?
Camry has 70% local content, if Toyota got the wage reforms they want, and shut out local suppliers in favour of importing their components presumably for a significant saving, would they be viable?

[OCTANEBOSS]

I do not want another one of my tax dollars spent on a company that produces cars that I will never drive or own. Seemed ok to let the blue corner crumble & die but there is a apparently a bit of worry now if the red corner was to pack up & leave. It is also reported that each Holden produced here costs the Aussie taxpayer about $ 2000.00 per car ( tabloid tele always tells the truth lol.. only there say ). Damm, no wonder commodore drivers are always smiling as they disappear in my rear view mirror.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by redloamrules

I do not want another one of my tax dollars spent on a company that produces cars that I will never drive or own. Seemed ok to let the blue corner crumble & die but there is a apparently a bit of worry now if the red corner was to pack up & leave. It is also reported that each Holden produced here costs the Aussie taxpayer about $ 2000.00 per car ( tabloid tele always tells the truth lol.. only there say ). Damm, no wonder commodore drivers are always smiling as they disappear in my rear view mirror.

Better not use your taxes on education since your not going to be needing that, or hopefully ambos, or any other of the myriad things your taxes go towards that you never use.
Simple fact is, for every dollar the govt has tipped into the local car builders they have made a nice return on.

Last time I looked a return on an investment is a good thing?

[BroadyFord]

More doom.

Toyota's warning to unions on future

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1226780194336#

THE Australian car manufacturing industry is on the brink of collapse as Toyota warns that the future of its Melbourne operations will be under threat if a cost-cutting deal is rejected by unions and Holden appears certain to close its Adelaide car plant.

Toyota warned yesterday that a no vote on a union workplace agreement would send "a very strong message to our parent company that we are not serious about transforming our business".

"This will put our ability to continue building cars in Australia at serious risk," a spokeswoman said.

She said a decision was due next year on the next-generation Camry and the company's export program.

The warning from Toyota came as Acting Prime Minister Warren Truss wrote to Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux to demand that GM Holden "immediately provide a clear explanation of its future intentions and explain what its plans are for its Australian operations".

Joe Hockey also demanded clarity from Holden, telling parliament it must "come clean" with the Australian people.

"Either you are here, or you're not," the Treasurer said.

He said there was no shortage of money being directed to the automotive industry, with net combined assistance in 2011 at $1.1 billion or $48,000 an employee. Many other companies would like to be able to remit Australian taxpayer funds back to their head offices "in Detroit, London, Tokyo or anywhere else", Mr Hockey added.

"We have put another billion dollars on the table from 2015," he said. "A hell of a lot of industries in Australia would love to get the assistance the automotive industry is getting."

Motor-industry insiders said Holden felt "bullied and hectored" by the government intervention, which had sealed its fate, suggesting it gave Holden little choice but to bring on a closure announcement.

They warned this could jeopardise 50,000 jobs because the closure of Holden would almost certainly lead to Toyota following suit.

The ultimatum from the government to Holden came hours after Mr Devereux told a Productivity Commission inquiry in Melbourne that "there's been no decision made at this point".

The commission's interim report on car industry assistance is due at the end of next week.

Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane is planning to use its release to make a statement of good faith to the carmaker to encourage it to await the release of the final report early next year.

Mr Macfarlane accused Labor of politicising the issue and risking a "self-fulfilling prophecy".

"I am not for a moment going to take any criticism from those opposite that the Coalition is anything but totally committed to the car industry and its future in Australia," he said.

Mr Devereux refused to speculate on the timeframe for Holden's parent company to make a decision about its Australian production, amid speculation it will shut down its plants from 2016.

"Where possible and where feasible, the general philosophy of our company is to build where we sell," he said. "We have continued over the years to make the case to our parent (company) that we want to continue to build things in this country."

Holden had recently made an average profit of $50m a year, while receiving an average $180m of support in various forms from Australian taxpayers "which we take very very seriously".

He spoke of government support as an investment in local jobs and economies with significant flow-on effects. "The budgetary cost, I think, of losing this industry would dwarf the cost of keeping it," Mr Devereux said.

"The business case for having an auto industry is something that is understood all around the world."

It costs General Motors an extra $3750 a car to build vehicles in Australia compared with other plants in the region.

Productivity Commissioner Philip Weickhardt said simple arithmetic suggested workers would need to be paid "virtually nothing" to close the gap.

"There is a gap," Mr Devereux agreed. "I don't suggest we are asking to close that gap to zero. We need a public/private partnership over the long term to be able to be relatively competitive and to have GM be able to do what it wants to do, which is build where we sell."

Mr Truss, in his letter, said Mr Devereux's comments "failed to provide a commitment that Holden will remain in Australia well into the future . . . Instead, your comments merely confirmed that a decision to end manufacturing in Australia remains a live option and has not been ruled out."

The opposition's industry spokesman, Kim Carr, said there was "a very real threat that the Abbott government's inaction and downright hostility to the automotive industry will force Holden out of Australia and cause the entire industry to fail . . . This government has no comprehension of the social and economic catastrophe that would result if automotive manufacturing collapses."

He accused Mr Truss and Mr Hockey of taking an "an extraordinarily cavalier attitude".

In parliament, Mr Hockey warned the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union over the Toyota negotiations. "If you really care about the motor vehicle industry, I say to the Labor Party: ring up your good mates at the AMWU and tell them to recommend to the workers at Toyota that they should accept the deal offered by Toyota on Friday," the Treasurer said.

He said Toyota had an additional cost of manufacturing in Australia of $2800 a vehicle. Toyota needed to get the deal through so it could say to its Japanese parent in good faith, "the workers of Australia really do want a manufacturing business".

Toyota issued a blunt threat to its Australian workforce that a vote against a proposed industrial package would risk local operations.

Employees are to vote on Friday on the measures, which would scrap some decades-old allowances. Toyota has described the measures in the agreement as urgently needed to remain productive. A spokeswoman said AMWU encouragement of a "no" vote was disappointing - Toyota was doing everything possible to secure its employees' future and it expected union support for that.

AMWU vehicle division national secretary Dave Smith said Toyota was using strongarm tactics.

[BroadyFord]

And more.

Workers must wait till big dogs stop barking

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opin...1226780122798#

HOLDEN is dead in Australia along with up to 50,000 jobs but the focus now is on who is going to read the last rites.

The Abbott government, particularly Joe Hockey, is demanding, bullying and hectoring Holden into declaring that a decision - where it matters in Detroit - has already been taken to end Holden production in Australia.

Holden wants the responsibility to fall with the government and is perhaps holding out a forlorn hope that the Productivity Commission will provide last-minute assistance to save some of the Australian operations.

Along with the horror budget outlook that Hockey will release next week, the government wants to pin the impending Holden closure on commercial failings of the corporation and stick Labor with a record of interventionist failure that has cost taxpayers millions.

An angry and frustrated Holden - particularly the Australian end - is claiming there is a lack of process because Tony Abbott and the Treasurer have declared there will be no more assistance even before the Productivity Commission report.

Holden resents the forced timetable from the government and feels unfairly treated. But there is little sympathy in cabinet for Holden's position, seen as attempting to create leverage and force more subsidies from Australia, and even an attempt to make the broader point on the survival of Toyota and no "blank cheque" for a struggling Qantas.

It's rough and ugly politics and commerce but there will be no concentration on the workers' rights and assistance, as well as future industry for South Australia, until one of the big dogs in the fight declares a final position.

While the job losses, direct and indirect, are disastrous, the government appears to have public sympathy for refusing to bail out Detroit once more.

[BroadyFord]

More evidence

Bomb-proof BMWs will replace the Prime Minister's Holden fleet of limousines

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1226780185117

THE Prime Minister's flagship fleet of high-security Holden limos is expected to be replaced with bomb and gas proof BMWs after Government sources claimed Holden had failed to bid for a lucrative $4 million plus contract to replace the ageing convoy of armoured cars.

And a further armada of 20 German built cars will need to be leased for the G20 Summit in Brisbane next year - at a cost of $2 million - with foreign leaders prevented from using the Holden Caprice as it didn't meet their standards to protect against terrorist attacks.

Government sources last night claimed that Holden had not submitted a bid for a new construction contract to replace the existing eight-year-old fleet of nine armour-plated Caprices - including the PM's own car "C1".

The Daily Telegraph understands that only four bids were entered, including Audi and Mercedes.

The only options of a semi-local built car was believed to be a newer version of the retrofitted Holden Caprice offered by British Aerospace at a cost of $800,000 each, or a "ground up" model based on a Holden chassis, which cost $1.2 million for just one vehicle.

However, neither option is believed to have been able to meet international standards for protection against attacks.

The Federal Government is now expected to sign a contract to buy cheaper, off-the shelf BMW High Security 7-series vehicles, at a cost of $525,000 each, which meet higher international standards of protection against ballistic and gas attacks - and which can be serviced in Australia.

It has an existing contract through the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade with BMW for high security cars.

The BMW option would save the government more than $3 million. They would also be available for the 20 strong fleet of security cars required for the G20, saving the Government a further $1 million.

Holden last night denied it had declined to bid for the tender, claiming it had partnered with the two after market companies in bids to supply armoured plated cars.

"We have partnered with two bids from armoured plated companies," a spokesman for Holden said.

"Holden is involved in two bids for this work and we would love to see the PM in a Caprice, and we have obviously provided caprice for this purpose before."

But departmental sources disputed the claim and said Holden had "shown no interest" when made aware the tender was being let.

The imminent loss of Holden as the PM's official car was revealed as the Detroit based car giant came under pressure to reveal whether it planned to close its operations in Australia by 2016.

Yesterday thousands of Holden workers were left hanging over Christmas to find out whether they would still have a job with Holden boss Mike Devereux refusing to confirm whether it would continue to make cars in Australia.

Labor has accused the government of trying to kill the Australian car industry by cutting assistance by $500 million and has urged the Government to restore assistance to Holden to protect thousands of jobs.

But Acting Prime Minister Warren Truss yesterday wrote to the company requesting that it reveal its intentions and reminding it that the Government had already committed a further $1 billion to the industry until 2020.

"An immediate clarification of GM Holden's future plans is needed to end the uncertainty for Holden's workforce, its suppliers and the people of Australia," Mr Truss said.

A senior government source yesterday confirmed that Holden "was not interested" in bidding for the government security cars with the contract likely to be awarded to BMW - which once made engines for the Nazi war machine - over the coming days.

The AFP is already using BMW X5s for security support vehicles for the PM claiming there was nothing in Australia built to specifications required for protection.

The Government will need a total of 20 armoured BMW, Mercedez or Audis for the G20 meeting next year.

It could save $1 million in lease fees by sourcing 9 of the vehicles from a new Government fleet of BMWs.

[BroadyFord]

And more.

Holden's future solely up to General Motor's global chief Dan Akerson

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/techno...-1226780186335

A DECISION on Holden's future is a mere pen-stroke away, with the Detroit based global chief of General Motors, Dan Akerson, having sole discretion to sign away Holden's manufacturing operations and with it the jobs of 1760 factory workers.

Contrary to earlier reports - and protocols at other companies - the Holden edict does not need to go to the General Motors board, which meets monthly.

Dan Akerson is a $12 million-a-year man who served as an officer on a US naval destroyer in the 1970s.

In just three years he has developed a reputation in Detroit for not being afraid to make tough calls, such as shutting factories or axing entire brands, such as Pontiac and Hummer and the sale of Swedish icon Saab.

A self-confessed "non-car guy", Mr Akerson has helped reshape General Motors globally since it came out of bankruptcy, driven the company to record profits and, as of yesterday, finished repaying the $50 billion loan from the US Government, which sold its remaining shares in GM.

SHOULD HOLDEN BE SAVED BY TAXPAYERS? COMMENT BELOW

In a recent interview, when asked about the secrets to his success and the transformation of General Motors, Mr Akerson said: "Fundamentally I've got to run a business that's gonna turn profits."

Holden has lost $432 million over the past five years and the company openly admits it loses money on each car it builds locally.

With pressure from the Federal Government reaching new heights after Treasurer Joe Hockey said of Holden in Parlimentary Question Time "either you're here, or you're not", General Motors is increasingly being left with no option but to shut the car-making factory that Queen Elizabeth II visited in its opening year, in 1963.

It is possible an announcement by Holden could come on or before December 20 - the last day of work for Holden factory employees before the scheduled summer shutdown, and the same day the preliminary report by the Productivity Commission is due to be released.

When asked yesterday if Holden felt pressured by the Federal Government to announce a shutdown sooner rather than later, Holden boss Mike Devereux said: "No decision has been made by General Motors."

A formal decision to shut the Elizabeth car making factory is believed to be a formality given the hard line stance of the Federal Government to not increase taxpayer funding to the industry, and Holden's request for more assistance.

Central to the debate over the Holden shutdown is the definition of the word "decision".

In car industry terms, executives may have made up their minds on an outcome, but a "decision" is a more formal process.

It took Ford more than 300 meetings and seven years to arrive at its decision to shut its Australian factories, and Mitsubishi was questioned for four years before its eventual shutdown, the Federal Government is trying to force Holden to announce its bad news within months.

When Ford announced the 2016 shutdown its Australian factories, the decision was made at board level and included input from executive chairman William Clay Ford Jr, and Edsel Ford, both great-grandsons of Henry Ford.

It then took several days for the announcement to be made to Ford workers on the factory floor.

Holden has been hammered over the past decade by the strong Australian dollar, high labour rates and low import tariffs.

Holden is now on track to post its lowest annual sales in 20 years, and the Commodore, despite a new model, the lowest sales in its 35-year history.

In 2011, after 15 years as Australia's favourite car, Holden Commodore sales were overtaken by the Mazda3 from Japan.

Automotive historians say it is the first time since WWI an imported car has led the new-car market.

This year, the Toyota Corolla is on track to become Australia's top-selling car for the first time.

Holden once dominated the Australian car market with 90,000 sales of the Commodore. Nowadays you can take top honours by selling less than half as many cars, as Mazda has done and Toyota is about to do.

Today, only five out of 100 new cars sold in Australia is a locally-made Holden.

Holden was overtaken in some months by Mazda, Hyundai and Nissan this year.

Despite a record new-car market, Australian vehicle production falls to its lowest levels since 1958.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont understand why people think this has anything to do with Australian politics. The business cases are floored until the products are intergrated into aglobal platform, thats all to hard for Americans even though the Germans do it quite well.

This has nothing to do with puppets, its bottom lines.

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

[OCTANEBOSS]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Better not use your taxes on education since your not going to be needing that, or hopefully ambos, or any other of the myriad things your taxes go towards that you never use.
Simple fact is, for every dollar the govt has tipped into the local car builders they have made a nice return on.

Last time I looked a return on an investment is a good thing?

Yeah bloke, the country is going ahead in leaps & bounds. Maybe Holden could borrow some more cash of a bank, the bank would be guaranteed a return at least. Maybe we could make a new JV type car FOLDEN. 100% Australian owed, built by & made from australian stuff if we go **** up then we only have ourselves to blame. This is only a small issue compared to some of the other stuff that my grandkids are going to have to face.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by stevz

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

Oh that's right the coalition that's been in power for 3 months, having inherited a friggin mess of an economy from the previous demigods - it's the coalitions fault.

ALP's CO2 tax, that helped, or ALP's changes to FBT/car leasing, that obviously helped GMH and boosted sales of Aussie cars?

Add the unions along with the ALP, partners in crime playing politics, now stalling the repeal of the CO2 tax in the senate, they're hell bent on causing as much trouble as possible - but it's all the coalitions fault.

Add the blatant anti-Abbott news led by Fairfax and ABC (both leftie mouth pieces), their rubbish is now wholesale gospel - everything is the coalitions fault.

Add GMH, who play the politics very well and milk the taxpayer for as much as possible.

But go on and believe what you want...

[buggerlugs]

oops repost..........

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by stevz

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

The key difference is that the "others" sell cars that people want. Its the business case and the direction of the companies that makes the difference.

The investment needed to make a car competitive is too large for cars sold soley in one country to sustain...thats all it is. The politicians rotate through and it makes very little diffrence.

To GMHs credit they actually gave the platform a chance, more so than Ford ever did. Difference is that Ford realised it and mde the decision sooner which in theory helps all involved in the long run.

You can give them all the concessions you like, if they dont have volume then it wont work.

[Dodge]

why are the CEOs still getting massive payments if they are losing money , anyone one else here sick of payn for companies that run on our tax money when they waste so much of it on rubbish finish the V8 supa cars and bring back the days when u rock up with ur own production car and flog it around the track then drive it home

[GT2]

Originally Posted by stevz

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

I agree with subsidising industry, but you can't use tax payer funding to subsidise an industry that rampant unions have destroyed. Have you read the Grace Collier story?
The smart countries also subsidise an industry that builds export product, not a couple of thousand pieces a month for local consumption.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by cheap

Oh that's right the coalition that's been in power for 3 months, having inherited a friggin mess of an economy from the previous demigods - it's the coalitions fault.

ALP's CO2 tax, that helped, or ALP's changes to FBT/car leasing, that obviously helped GMH and boosted sales of Aussie cars?

Add the unions along with the ALP, partners in crime playing politics, now stalling the repeal of the CO2 tax in the senate, they're hell bent on causing as much trouble as possible - but it's all the coalitions fault.

Add the blatant anti-Abbott news led by Fairfax and ABC (both leftie mouth pieces), their rubbish is now wholesale gospel - everything is the coalitions fault.

Add GMH, who play the politics very well and milk the taxpayer for as much as possible.

But go on and believe what you want...

Not excusing previous govt's actions, but they have the opportunity to fix everything right here right now and yet what are they doing? Absolutely nothing. Playing games by leaking rumors to the media to create even more of a mess.
What happened to the "transparent", "decisive" and "no nonsense" government we were promised? Just as I thought, all talk no action. Talk big and tough to get into power then sit on your hands once you get elected. On one hand Abbott says he wants the auto industry to prosper in this country but on the other he is trying to wash his hands of them. How is this helping the nation?
And what does it tell you when even their own Victorian Liberal counterparts are screaming for action?

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by cheap

Add the blatant anti-Abbott news led by Fairfax and ABC (both leftie mouth pieces), their rubbish is now wholesale gospel - everything is the coalitions fault.

But go on and believe what you want...

Are you SERIOUS??!?! See Fairfax and the ABC only seem like that to you because you're obviously engrossed in the Murdoch press, which are all hard right neo liberalism propaganda filled editorial pieces, controlled by a foreign billionaire who's only aim is protecting and building his commercial interests at the direct expense of the Australian public. ABC and Fairfax are merely independent - the anti-Abbott sentiment you're picking up on is simply accurate reporting of what is by far the most inept and destructive government in this countries history.

I dont agree with Stevz that its solely the Coalition's fault that the auto industry is closing down, its far more complex than that. But the way this whole situation is being handled by the current government is disgusting. Pulling funding then playing the tough guy demanding immediate answers and decisions. Successive governments may have lead us to this point, but the Abbott government will be solely responsible for the premature (by 10 years) closure of the auto industry.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Are you SERIOUS??!?! See Fairfax and the ABC only seem like that to you because you're obviously engrossed in the Murdoch press, which are all hard right neo liberalism propaganda filled editorial pieces, controlled by a foreign billionaire who's only aim is protecting and building his commercial interests at the direct expense of the Australian public. ABC and Fairfax are merely independent - the anti-Abbott sentiment you're picking up on is simply accurate reporting of what is by far the most inept and destructive government in this countries history.

I dont agree with Stevz that its solely the Coalition's fault that the auto industry is closing down, its far more complex than that. But the way this whole situation is being handled by the current government is disgusting. Pulling funding then playing the tough guy demanding immediate answers and decisions. Successive governments may have lead us to this point, but the Abbott government will be solely responsible for the premature (by 10 years) closure of the auto industry.

So what would you do to fix the manufacturing mess?

a) do nothing

b) do the same (throw more money)

c) some thing else (be interesting hearing exactly what)

d) withhold taxpayer money until GMH make a firm commitment as to their intentions

I assume you approve of repealing the CO2 and FBT taxes - or are these good for the industry?

Over to you

[GQ_Smooth]

Getting WAY to Political now!!!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

ABC and Fairfax are merely independent

LOL. no really, LOL!!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

Getting WAY to Political now!!!

Which is ironic when its not important to the eventual outcome.

Blame the two companies for not moving with the times and involving the platforms in their current or updated state into the global plan.

Ive said it a million times before but if the 5 series and E Class work then why cant Ford figure out a Falcon/Lincoln platform for the world just the same as they do with every other car now for sale in their range.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

Getting WAY to Political now!!!

agreed and i was going to say this last night:

Keep this thread (aside from the quoted articles) 100% non-political and focus purely on the end result itself, the possible end of local manufacturing by Holden, and the impact this may have.

Any further arguing about political allegiance and the peeing contests will result in warnings issued, and despite what the OP begged for in the first post, thread closure. Here's hoping we can maintain a mature thread in The Bar for once.

[cheap]

GMH is stalling on making a formal announcement because they want to make the decision next year - as in 1st January 2014, purely for accounting reasons which better suits their bottom line.

Sayonara GMH

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226780453890

ACTING Prime Minister Warren Truss today suggested Holden was delaying an announcement on its future in Australia because it was "seeking cover for a decision that had already been made''.

As the government ramps up the pressure on Holden to declare its hand, Labor accused the Coalition of "unparalleled hostility'' towards the automotive industry.

But Mr Truss said there was more than enough money in the government's car industry assistance fund to help Holden through its immediate difficulties.

Union launches attack on Toyota

He said he was disappointed Holden boss Mike Devereaux had failed to clarify the company's intentions regarding its two Australian plants when he fronted a Productivity Commission hearing yesterday.

"It was a chance for Mike Devereaux and General Motors to make it clear that they wanted to be in this country, that they were talking to the government seriously about their future, rather than having just made up their mind and looking for cover for a decision that had already been made,'' Mr Truss told ABC radio.

Mr Truss, who yesterday wrote to Mr Devereaux demanding a statement on the car-maker's future, declined to say whether Holden had asked the government for an extra $150 million a year to stay in Australia.

He said he believed the company had not put on the table "anything that's quite that specific''.

But he said the $1 billion left in the car plan should be "comfortably adequate'' to cover Holden's needs,

"The key question is does Holden want to participate in the future automotive transformation scheme or have they already made a commitment to leave the country," Mr Truss said.

But opposition industry spokesman Kim Carr said the company needed a longer-term guarantee, and the government had to commit funding beyond 2020.

"This government has demonstrated an unparalleled hostility to General Motors, an unparalleled hostility to the automotive industry,'' he told ABC Radio.

International companies operating in Australia would be shaking their heads at the government's "incredible bullying and hectoring approach'', he said

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by cheap

So what would you do to fix the manufacturing mess?

a) do nothing

b) do the same (throw more money)

c) some thing else (be interesting hearing exactly what)

d) withhold taxpayer money until GMH make a firm commitment as to their intentions

I assume you approve of repealing the CO2 and FBT taxes - or are these good for the industry?

Over to you

I think its important to understand that the auto manufacturing industry cannot survive in this country for much longer no matter what any government does. As I've said in other threads, we're talking about foreign companies, and their only interest is their bottom line. I agree that throwing ever increasing amounts of cash at these foreign corporations is bad policy.

So what I'd do, seeing as you asked, is try to manage what is going to be a difficult transition. Having all three manufacturers shut up shop in the same year is a very bad idea. Holden had said they'll be here until 2025 under the previous governments funding scheme. Being GM, I realise their word doesn't count for much, but anyway...

Anything that can be done should be done to stagger the closures, which would greatly assist the workers to make the transition. I think the level of funding should have remained unchanged, Kevs FBT tax reform should have been pushed through BUT exempt any Australian made car, along with abolishing or reducing stamp duty and GST on Aussie made cars. No doubt some of our free trade partners overseas would have something to say about that, wouldn't be easy, but a talented government could massage it in surely. It could be funded by reducing the diesel levy currently enjoyed by the mining companies, you know, spread the love a little.

So you got my thoughts on the FBT deal... With the carbon tax, well I'm not so sure about the current arrangement, but there absolutely must be a price on carbon, no doubt about it. It's short term pain for long term gain. The idea that no other countries are pricing carbon is wrong, and the idea that the pricing is there only in some futile attempt to reduce pollution is simplistic. The world is changing, industry is changing, and pricing carbon is more like a capital re-distribution mechanism that will help Australia make the transition to new, clean industries that it must make if our economy is to survive. It may not help today's industry, but it will tomorrows. We cant just bury our heads in the sand and insist everything stays the same - it never does.

Hopefully that wasn't too political, I realise not many here will agree with my carbon pricing stance but it's a thought out one, could be wrong, right or half way inbetween, but it's not one thats been rammed down my throat by Mr Murdoch. That's all I'll say on the matter, would rather the thread stays open.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I think its important to understand that the auto manufacturing industry cannot survive in this country for much longer no matter what any government does. As I've said in other threads, we're talking about foreign companies, and their only interest is their bottom line. I agree that throwing ever increasing amounts of cash at these foreign corporations is bad policy.

So what I'd do, seeing as you asked, is try to manage what is going to be a difficult transition. Having all three manufacturers shut up shop in the same year is a very bad idea. Holden had said they'll be here until 2025 under the previous governments funding scheme. Being GM, I realise their word doesn't count for much, but anyway...

Anything that can be done should be done to stagger the closures, which would greatly assist the workers to make the transition. I think the level of funding should have remained unchanged, Kevs FBT tax reform should have been pushed through BUT exempt any Australian made car, along with abolishing or reducing stamp duty and GST on Aussie made cars. No doubt some of our free trade partners overseas would have something to say about that, wouldn't be easy, but a talented government could massage it in surely. It could be funded by reducing the diesel levy currently enjoyed by the mining companies, you know, spread the love a little.

So you got my thoughts on the FBT deal... With the carbon tax, well I'm not so sure about the current arrangement, but there absolutely must be a price on carbon, no doubt about it. It's short term pain for long term gain. The idea that no other countries are pricing carbon is wrong, and the idea that the pricing is there only in some futile attempt to reduce pollution is simplistic. The world is changing, industry is changing, and pricing carbon is more like a capital re-distribution mechanism that will help Australia make the transition to new, clean industries that it must make if our economy is to survive. It may not help today's industry, but it will tomorrows. We cant just bury our heads in the sand and insist everything stays the same - it never does.

Hopefully that wasn't too political, I realise not many here will agree with my carbon pricing stance but it's a thought out one, could be wrong, right or half way inbetween, but it's not one thats been rammed down my throat by Mr Murdoch. That's all I'll say on the matter, would rather the thread stays open.

I guess you don't see any contradictions in the above?

[BroadyFord]

BlueScope, Toll face Holden hit

http://readnow.isentia.com/ReadNow.aspx?1YfZCxyLtCq

Australia's largest steelmaker, Blue- Scope Steel, will lose at least $33 million in revenue a year if GM Holden shuts down local car manufacturing from 2016.
BlueScope Steel supplies 14,000 tonnes of steel worth about $18 million directly to Holden to make vehicles in Australia. Major Holden suppliers buy $15 million -plus of steel from BlueScope.
Another ASX -listed company facing a revenue hit from a Holden shutdown is the $4 billion logistics and transport giant Toll Holdings.
Toll provides warehousing and sequencing for the just -in -time manufacturing process at Holden which in 2012 amounted to revenue of $12.7 million, and is 50 per cent shareholder in PrixCar, which provides $35 million -plus of domestic transport services for Holden.
BlueScope reported a loss of $84 million in 2012 -13, an improvement on the $1 billion loss in the previous financial year. BlueScope declined to elaborate on the specifics of exposure to the automotive sector.
"Were not going to be commenting on our customers publicly," a BlueScope spokesman said.
Buried inside a Holden submission to the Productivity Commission inquiry into car industry assistance are details on how much it spends on steel from BlueScope.
The document reveals that it spent $18 million in 2012 on Australian steel from BlueScope, which `vas approximately 14,000 tonnes ".
"Holden forecasts to purchase the same amount, or more, by end of 2013," the Holden document says.
Holden revealed that some of its main component suppliers, including Precision, AIA and Carr, purchase 90 per cent, or $15 million worth, of their steel from BlueScope.
Holden disclosed that the steel is transported by direct rail from Blue- Scope's steelworks at Port Kembla in NSW, and that a "significant propordon" of the car maker's steel requirements come from BlueScope.
BlueScope said the automotive and transport industries represented 8 per cent of total domestic steel volumes in 2012 -13.
High -strength steel, which Holden said itcari tobtain locally, is imported from South Korea, Japan and China.
Holden's main logistics and transport suppliers include Toll Holdings, PrixCar and CEVA Logistics. Holden said Toll generated $12.7 million in revenue in 2012 for warehousing and sequencing.
Other businesses exposed to a Holden closure include Allied Express, which derived annual revenues of $4.8 million, and CEVA Logistics, which was paid $10.34 million for logistics services.
Another company, Australian Amalgamated Terminals, which provides port handling services for Holden's vehicles that are exported, was paid $800,000.
Holden said its closure would "significantly impact" the revenues of PrixCar and AAT .
Holden has 121 direct suppliers and spends $584 million annually on parts and components including seats, axles and body panels, with South Australian-based suppliers making up $409 million, and Victorian suppliers representing $170 million.
NSW suppliers make up $5 million.

[BroadyFord]

Holden announcing factory closure now - from 2017!!!

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Holden announcing factory closure now - from 2017!!!

Where did you find that?

[BroadyFord]

All over twitter.