VF SS COMMADORES everywhere !!!!

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Large RWD imported sedans might be overpriced but are definitely not inferior :-)

Yeah, when it comes to large RWD sedans they're aren't many that are inferior to Falcodores. The 300C comes with more kit than an FPV and a VE HSV. Any Euro RWD sedan are pretty well kitted out at the base level and the high end ones just embarass Falcodores. Chrysler Chargers are a pretty good car as well.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Yeah, when it comes to large RWD sedans they're aren't many that are inferior to Falcodores. The 300C comes with more kit than an FPV and a VE HSV. Any Euro RWD sedan are pretty well kitted out at the base level and the high end ones just embarass Falcodores. Chrysler Chargers are a pretty good car as well.

The VF interior and electronics brought it up to most other Euro and Yank models. Shame it came too late.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by duaned

I haven't tried it in mine yet, but I believe in sports mode the auto blips the throttle in downshifts. Have you tried this Adrenaline?

Yep. It will auto-blip when you use the tiptronic gate and also (from what I can gather) when it determines that rev matching is appropriate in sports mode. There seems to be two tiers within sports mode itself. With the shifter just pushed to the left in standard sports mode, it does the usual stuff like downshift more frequently and hold gears a little longer- much like I was used to with the ZF. But once you start to drive it spiritedly, a performance shift message appears on the central display and the box goes into some kind of maximum attack mode, very cool. It keeps the revs very high, winds out all the gears, the shifts themselves feel firmer and it auto-blips the downshifts on its own- I've never experienced an auto get so aggressive, but it is very enjoyable!

[XtRmn8]

^^^
I like the sound of that!

As a current FG XR6T owner I am more then satisfied with the car power and performance, however the VF is a very attractive proposition because it is a much better overall package.

I am hanging out to see what the 2014 Falcon brings before I jump the gun.

Also by the way lots of VF SV6 and SS models on the roads in Perth.

[wicksy]

i hear back today if i get the all clear to lease a VF SS Wagon in Regal Peacock green, hope it all goes through

[Cuyper]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i'm seeing them all throughout sydney . v8 SS SEDANS . they look good . i dont know they are selling , there are more of em on the road than HSV'S , FPV'S .
there is a llittle bit of evidence that australians still want A V8 SEDAN .
MUST BE COST . I DUNNO . FEEL BAD THAT WE ARE GOING TO LOOSE EM .
BIT LIKE LOSING BLONDE BLUE EYED AUSSIES WITH SHORT SHORTS AND BIG CLEAVAGE .

If you want to save the blondes you only need to keep breeding with them. Continuing to build big cars is a harder task. Doing either in a climate not favourable to both probably isn't the most logic thing to do even if it might seem fun.

[Trump]

If I didn't have the FG and I was in the market for a new RWD sedan, my first choice would be a manual SSV sedan. So much fruit in it for such a good price (been quoted $43,500 drive away), it is very hard to look past it and get a GT or similar (for a V8).

Having said that, the potential to make an FG a truly great car for a small outlay is far higher with the FG than it is with the VF. Three and a half gorillas will see me do high 11's and put down approx 340rwkW, whereas to do that with a non HSV VF would be about double that and then some. Straight line mumbo isn't the all and end all, a car has to corner and stop as well. In that aspect, again I feel that the FG takes to such modifications better than a VE-VF (I say this because the suspension is essentially the same between the two iterations and I have had a modded VE SS). The FG makes more use of good suspension components (shocks primarily) than the VE, despite its flawed IRS. Right now, my FG is delivering road manners and handling far better than the VE (mods and all) thanks to the Bilsteins, braided brake lines, DBA4000's and FerodoDS pads. With the sway bar to be fitted come next month, it should improve yet again.

But at the end of the day, stock for stock, right now I'd pick an SS.

Adrenaline, did you get the SSV or a vanilla SS?

[strik9]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Yep. It will auto-blip when you use the tiptronic gate and also (from what I can gather) when it determines that rev matching is appropriate in sports mode. There seems to be two tiers within sports mode itself. With the shifter just pushed to the left in standard sports mode, it does the usual stuff like downshift more frequently and hold gears a little longer- much like I was used to with the ZF. But once you start to drive it spiritedly, a performance shift message appears on the central display and the box goes into some kind of maximum attack mode, very cool. It keeps the revs very high, winds out all the gears, the shifts themselves feel firmer and it auto-blips the downshifts on its own- I've never experienced an auto get so aggressive, but it is very enjoyable!

so no ***** the auto is as good as the zf or better? really my ve senator was a heap of junk.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by strik9

so no ***** the auto is as good as the zf or better? really my ve senator was a heap of junk.

So were the first ZF 6 speeds. Took a while for the engineers to get the software correct.

[strik9]

the first zf i had was amazing, so i wouldn't know they were every average.(saying that i only came in from bf onwards) but they were all fpv not sure it makes a difference though. dont get me wrong i really hope the holdens have sorted it . was the only real fail in my book

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by stevz

When people use the term "nobody wants large sedans anymore" it's usually just an excuse to make themselves feel better about driving some horrible buzz box or overpriced but inferior import. There may not be enough demand to sustain production, but the rwd large sedan, especialy the V8 versions, will remain a timeless classic that will never go out of fashion.

Nobody wants to buy Falcons or Commodores anymore. This is a sad fact.

No company in history has stopped selling a top-seller (or even mediocre seller).

[stevz]

Originally Posted by puts99

Nobody wants to buy Falcons or Commodores anymore. This is a sad fact.

No company in history has stopped selling a top-seller (or even mediocre seller).

No it isn't a fact. Commodore has rarely ever been out of the top 5 in sales and the fact there are still waiting lists for certain models tells otherwise.
Plenty of members here with new or near new Falcons too. To say that nobody is buying them is ignorant and false.
The decline in Falcodore sales can be largely attributed to fleets moving to small cars in order to portray themselves to be "environmentally responsible" (What a load of crap that is).
Falcon and Commodore are still the first choice for many private buyers, although with the fleet sales gone, there are not enough numbers to sustain production.

[AndyXR6T]

I've been seeing them everywhere. Particularly the orange SS' with black wheels and stripes... I gotta say they look pretty damn tough.
I definitely wouldn't turn down owning one (especially after reading adrenalines post!) but I can't stand that the wagon variants have the VE rear. I know that's been the case with falcons and commodores for years but this time the wagon looks out of place

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

No it isn't a fact. Commodore has rarely ever been out of the top 5 in sales and the fact there are still waiting lists for certain models tells otherwise.
Plenty of members here with new or near new Falcons too. To say that nobody is buying them is ignorant and false.
The decline in Falcodore sales can be largely attributed to fleets moving to small cars in order to portray themselves to be "environmentally responsible" (What a load of crap that is).
Falcon and Commodore are still the first choice for many private buyers, although with the fleet sales gone, there are not enough numbers to sustain production.

If the numbers aren't high enough to sustain production...then surely that means they're not selling well...

[stevz]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

If the numbers aren't high enough to sustain production...then surely that means they're not selling well...

Not necessarily. They are disadvantaged due to the fact that they don't have the global markets and economies of scale that just about every other importer does. Then there is also Australia's fragmented market to consider. Commodore or Falcon could be the top selling car in Australia but the numbers still wouldn't stack up for local production.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Yep. It will auto-blip when you use the tiptronic gate and also (from what I can gather) when it determines that rev matching is appropriate in sports mode. There seems to be two tiers within sports mode itself. With the shifter just pushed to the left in standard sports mode, it does the usual stuff like downshift more frequently and hold gears a little longer- much like I was used to with the ZF. But once you start to drive it spiritedly, a performance shift message appears on the central display and the box goes into some kind of maximum attack mode, very cool. It keeps the revs very high, winds out all the gears, the shifts themselves feel firmer and it auto-blips the downshifts on its own- I've never experienced an auto get so aggressive, but it is very enjoyable!

With this being said, It's time I take mine out and give it a thrash!

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I've been driving around the VF for 6 weeks now and one thing is quite clear- it's every bit as quick as an XR6 Turbo before you start reaching quite high speeds (150+) where the turbo's torque starts to do it favours.

and

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

That photo doesn't even capture the full extent of how bulky the VF is- it sits like a tank next to the FG, particularly at the rear.

It would be interesting to see how the drag coefficient factors (Cd) compares between the two cars. The additional frontal area alone would increase the drag of the VF, which would become more noticeable at higher speeds.

Looking at Adrenalines photo, the FG appears to have a much cleaner aerodynamic shape, therefore a lower Cd than the VF, which would also help more at higher speeds.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

Not necessarily. They are disadvantaged due to the fact that they don't have the global markets and economies of scale that just about every other importer does. Then there is also Australia's fragmented market to consider. Commodore or Falcon could be the top selling car in Australia but the numbers still wouldn't stack up for local production.

C'mon man you cant have high sales but low sales at the same time. Holden/Ford knew they were only selling these cars in Australia, cant blame the lack of exports for their demise. Build a car to suit the market no matter what the market is.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

C'mon man you cant have high sales but low sales at the same time. Holden/Ford knew they were only selling these cars in Australia, cant blame the lack of exports for their demise. Build a car to suit the market no matter what the market is.

Rubbish. Cars that people supposedly "want" in Australia are Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Hyundai I30 etc which sell roughly 3000-4000 per month. Now if these cars were produced here and only sold locally, do you think the business case for their production would stack up any better? I think not.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

and



It would be interesting to see how the drag coefficient factors (Cd) compares between the two cars. The additional frontal area alone would increase the drag of the VF, which would become more noticeable at higher speeds.

Looking at Adrenalines photo, the FG appears to have a much cleaner aerodynamic shape, therefore a lower Cd than the VF, which would also help more at higher speeds.

Frontal area means very little. Most motorcycles have a worse drag coefficient than cars, and it is easy to see which has more frontal area, obviously not the motorcycle..

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

What's a commAdore????

Something only a Ford fan could misspell

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by strik9

so no ***** the auto is as good as the zf or better? really my ve senator was a heap of junk.

I know what you mean, the VE/II autos really struggled and it always let down the entire car, that's the main reason I think I kept going back for FGs- need the autos for towing but I still like tracking them so bad trans = bad car. They've come leaps and bounds with this version.

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Adrenaline, did you get the SSV or a vanilla SS?

Stock standard SS. The V was only a couple of grand more but there were some deal breakers in the package that didn't work for me personally- seats (couldn't be full leather, loved the leather/suede in the SS), wheel size (preferred 18s for stuff like R1Rs, R888s etc that you can't get in 19s), trims (loved the piano black and gloss faux carbon in the SS, after converting my entire XR6T interior to piano black I felt at home in the SS) and stock availability. The Redlines were also a 3-4 month wait! They must be selling a few.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Frontal area means very little. Most motorcycles have a worse drag coefficient than cars, and it is easy to see which has more frontal area, obviously not the motorcycle..

Drag force = Cd x 1/2 x density x V^2 x S where V = speed, and S is frontal area.

Therefore frontal area does have an affect on the drag force, which opposes thrust (from the driving wheels).

I think you are getting mixed up between Cd and drag force. Cd is only a factor, which is dependent on the shape of the vehicle.

[strik9]

well he is a technical contributor .

[duaned]

I threw on a set of 19's from the SSV model ( I hated the 18's) fitted the sports pedals,( this was a pain as the accelerator pedal is one piece with the TPS), tinted windows and replaced the front / rear scuff plates with SS logo ones. Audio next.

[jimmyxr6t04]

I see quite a few VF SS, and HSV's in canberra. Sort of makes me glad i chose the GT. I very rarely see a GT 335 on the roads in canberra.

[Rodge]

I had a listen to the Bose stereo system in the SSV Redline i poked my nose into the other day and came away pretty underwhelmed. Admittedly it was a brand new car so probably hadn't has its various settings optimised, but as stock it wasn't as good as the stock system in my GT-P which I admitt I have spend hours tweaking the settings to my exact preference, (but the Ford premium sound is hardly a benchmark system, anything but), so that's really saying something. The Bose in the SSV Redlien must be the most basic system Bose make, just sayin...

[jimmyxr6t04]

Rodge - glad that you got to have a listen to one. I thought my caprice must have been a dud! My BF Fairlane G8 was heaps better, and even the GT is better.

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Guilty as charged. I've always considered myself a Ford fan, but I don't get into the Ford vs Holden garbage (because being a Ford fan doesn't mean you need to hate Holdens!), I appreciate both brands and the rear drive Aussie muscle they bring to the table. I just buy the best car for the money and enjoy it. After a number of FGs, this is my first Commodore purchase and I must say, this VF is very, very good. Hats off to Holden. What you get for 40-something grand is hard to beat.

Now regarding the notion of "average performance" compared to an FG XR6 Turbo- I can't take anybody who says that seriously. I've owned both cars- not taken them around the block for a test drive- actually owned them. I drove my XR6T every day for years, including track and quarter mile stuff. I know exactly how fast they are. I've been driving around the VF for 6 weeks now and one thing is quite clear- it's every bit as quick as an XR6 Turbo before you start reaching quite high speeds (150+) where the turbo's torque starts to do it favours. Compared to the VE, the VF is a lighter, more aerodynamic car putting more power to the ground (no hydraulic power steering pump) with better engine and transmission tunes and Drive proved this by running a 13.1 at WSID. You'd be knocking on the door of a 12 second pass with E85 in the tank.

But that's only one fraction of performance. The SS stops better with much better fade resistance from the stock brakes. It doesn't just beat the XR6T through the corners, it slaughters it. Compared to an FG, the engine sits lower & further back, the front wheels are further forward, it builds on the perfect 50/50 weight distribution of the VE but now with the bonnet/bootlid made from aluminium, plus new shocks, coils, sway bars, revised suspension components also made in aluminium, amazingly well tuned steering and the GM auto has finally managed to outshine the ZF - it's a very sweet thing to drive and it's topped off with that old-school pushrod V8 sound. Ford really have their work cut out for them with FH.

And for anyone who hasn't seen an FG side by side with a VF, I think the FG has aged very well.

image

Great post Adrenaline.

As a Holden fan whom drifted to the dark side in 2010, I have at heart always been pro Aussie manufacturing and Australian cars. Prior to picking up my G6ET I drove a SV6 Wagon, an SS Sedan and G6ET. The SS is everything you say it is and in Prussian Steel, it is horn.

In the end I went with G6ET for the luxo feel and my love of the I6T (plus BossXR8 helped with Friends of Ford), that said the SS really is the complete package and had I wanted the sportier variants, its SS over the XR6T (at the minute).

Side Note: If the other half warmed more so to the wagon, it could have been an SS Sportwagon in my drive way.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

Rodge - glad that you got to have a listen to one. I thought my caprice must have been a dud! My BF Fairlane G8 was heaps better, and even the GT is better.

Yeah thanks Jimmy for the heads-up on the Holden Bose system, based on your previoius comment is what made me inquisitive so thanks to you I've had my eyes opened, should that be ears opened , anyway yeap it sounded nothing like the Bose in the high end Audi I drove a while back.

Depending on what I do next year, (my GT-P is 3 years old in March), if I keep it I might look at some high spec speakers and Bilstein suspension.