New Car v's Old Car.... How the figures stack up ?

[XR Martin]

When you can do all the work yourself, there is no question on how much it saves you.
For starters you dont have be paying hundreds of dollars for an oil change and a stamp in a book.

When you dont have a clue on how a car works or how its repaired then you are better off with a new car.

[302 XC]

Old Vs new

Brand new , youll find its easier to borrow for a spankin newie than for the equivelant priced 2nd handie
Government gets a better kik back as well
Then look at depreciation
On a newie , depending on make ,model most loose what 30-50% in 3 - 5 years
So on a newie on pure cost outlayed and $$$ return
50K down youd be lucky to pull 25K in 3 years
This doesnt include runnings costs
There is rego , all the same depending on cylinders , wether new or old
Insurance, a 50 K car will be dearer than a 5K clunker
(Age dependant again)

IF you bought a 5 K clunker and got 2 years from it with minimal maintenance
(outside of general services ect)
Remember new cars dont cost nothin to repair
You would be financially better off than someone who bought at 50K and sold at 30K

Depending how good the 2nd hand clunker is/was you could also spend a motsa on day to day maintenance and repairs and still do your wallet major damage

[flappist]

He who dies with the most money......

IS DEAD

[GTP-03]

Look, Ive had an EB 5 litre for 2 1/2 years now, its a 5 litre on gas, I have spent money on fixing it, new water pump, front suspension, brakes water pump, calipers, alternator, starter motor, power steering rack, ball joints, and the list goes on. My latest drama is that it overheated last week because the radiator snout broke clean in half, so I had to call the RAA AGAIN!
I also have a leak in one of the fuel hoses for the third time, whilst it is a cheap fix to replace the fuel line, I spent a few hundred extra bucks and bought a 3 core radiator aswell as it runs hot uphills which ive known since I bought the car.
The worst part of owning this car is that yes, it is old and yes it is a hassle breaking down, but on the other hand, I enjoy driving it, it is cheap to run, it does sound good, and its fully paid for.
I recently test drove a Dedicated LPG BF with 88000km on the clock, The car yard wanted 13k which was a good price, but after driving it I was less than impressed with the power, and especially the noise of the straight 6 compared to my bent 8, it would of been a reliable neat every day car, but you know what, It would of just depreciated in value and I would be paying a loan on it for 7 years and theres no guarantees it wont break down either!
It also had rust in the boot area which had nearly gone through the other side, so I decided to keep my EB.
On the down side the EB needs a new left hand tyre again as its scrubbing out on the outside and the trans always goes in limp mode,(stuck in third gear) so new fuel lines, new radiator, new tyre and possible camber kit and new solonoids needed in the trans..........oh boy, what a dilema!
So I guess if you are prepared to run into a few problems know and then and enjoy driving an older car, just expect for it to break down know and then, but if im going to finance a car, Id rather it be a slammed XA coupe than a FG XT Falcon

[fmc351]

I remember when people bought brand new, and still had it 20 yrs later. Some still in near mint condition.

If you still owned them that long, then the average cost per year would be better than 2nd hand every 5 or so years IMO.

[mickyyyy]

EF XR6

$6300 Purchase price in 2009 had low kms
$6438.65 repairs just over 3yrs ownership
$2156.72 rego and green slip and thats for 2 renewals
$5316.15 for 3yrs insurance and roadside

$20211.52 Total outlay over 3 years
$4000 - Trade/sell price

$16211.52 Net loss

Im lucky that i can claim everything on tax as i would be spuwin.............

I guess repairs may be less if i drive something newer but insurance and rego would be about the same.

Ive been thinking of selling my XR6 after 4 yrs which falls on feb next yr and upgrade to a FG XR6. What u think guys? or should i keep my XR for another yr as its reliable NOW after all the work.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by flappist

He who dies with the most money......

IS DEAD

x2.

Having a car that makes you happy is all that matters in the end.

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by flappist

He who dies with the most money......

IS DEAD

Very true.

What about he who lives too long?
It is a proverbial can of worms.

I had typed a very long reply; it's OT so I deleted it.

[93EB_SXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I love not having to worry about fixing my car, that's why I like computer controlled cars.

In cars, replacing mechanical bits like carbys and distributors with electronic bits usually makes them more reliable.....

Given that we have had computer controlled Falcons since 1988, I think it's a safe bet that they are reasonably reliable.

I was more referring to the fact that I own a 67 Holden and that has no computers in it what-so-ever.
Then again, when the triple webers go on it I'll hate having a carb set up

I'd say my EBII has the perfect mix of old and modern, of course there are many who would disagree and say it is a POS...

[93EB_SXR6]

Also, I buy old cars as they are cheap (why pay 40K for something that does the exact same job as my 3K car? *talking dailys here*).

I'd prefer to keep cars that make me happy; HR for instance and I love the early E-series Falcons for their looks/charm.

If an older Falcon blows a headgasket, its almost always cheaper to just drop a second-hand engine in anyway - which is easy to do.

My brother has a BAII ute which has been good to him (repair wise) but I didn't have to outlay 15K+ for my car.
My brother knows nothing about cars (he has Ultratune service it for him) so it works out for him as I seem to constantly be fixing niggly little things whereas he would have to pay someboy $100 an hour to fix them.

Apples and Oranges I'm afraid.

[Professor Farnsworth]

i've kept a record of the repairs and maintenance done to my EL Ghia V8

bought in October 2009 - $5100
transfer fees - $300ish i forget
repairs/maintenance/etc - $3204.94

Total - ~$8604.94

There are plenty more little things i could do if i could be bothered too, but it works fine.

If that doesn't help, just refer to my sig

[janddbone]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Non EFI deisel is the stuff for me!

No PCM, carbies, points, leads, spark plugs....

Yep, my old '73 Mercedes 220D fitted that description. It did not even need a battery to run, all mechanical. Would have not even cost $500 a year to keep on the road, excluding rego and insurance. As for safety, I hit a tree in that at 70MPH and walked away...

[EB#]

Originally Posted by Scotty85

x2.
Having a car that makes you happy is all that matters in the end.

Agree with this one also....
I have been pretty happy with all the cars I have owned over the years, even
the ones that cost a few bucks to maintain/repair.

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

EF XR6
..........$16211.52 Net loss

Here is certainly an alternative to my theory. I'm sure I got kind of lucky with
my old EB as it was in OK shape when I got it.

[sudszy]

A new car doesnt make a lot of sense for the private buyer, the depreciation in the first 5 years is much more than any repair costs could possibly cost you and that would be replacing engine gearbox everything.

However, I do appreciate that without somebody buying new cars I wouldnt be driving anything.

while I enjoy the classics I own, for daily drivers comfort and safety i prefer to be in something as modern and reliable as possible. Though my classics are so well maintained that Id put more faith in them to go everytime.

I think where people need to more careful of their sums is when they end up with big ticket repair items for cars that are in the 10-20 year old range, where 2-3K is for a repair is going to be overcapitolising the vehicle.

Has anyone done in figs on what time is best to upgrade to a quality used car in terms of where the depreciation has started to bottom out.
Possibly 5 years old?

[EB#]

Originally Posted by sudszy

....Has anyone done in figs on what time is best to upgrade to a quality used car in terms of where the depreciation has started to bottom out.
Possibly 5 years old?

Could be hard to say.... ?
Maybe one can decide when to purchase a used car in regards to the depreciation curve, so to speak,
that may best suit their budget as well as personal preference in respect of modern features ??

A Falcon or other large car in that price bracket, for example, would be around
about 50% of the original purchase price at the 5 year old mark I think.

[302 XC]

I knew a bloke who was a ford car dealer
His recommendation to me regarding buying new , was
"Buy 1 of those import cars ya know 15K driveaway ones"
???
His reasoning was
15K down ,over the depreciation period they loose alot less than the 40-50K commo or falcon
Alot less $$$ damage to the pocket

We really have to compare brand new Vs 2nd hand
Not 5 year old nused Vs something 10-15 year old

[sanchoXB]

Originally Posted by rag top

Not all old cars depreciate. I had a daily I bought for $14,000 and sold it for $22500 8 years later.
Wife bought an AU wagon for $14,000 around the same time, sold it 5 years later for $3,000. AU was also more expensive maintenance wise (thanks to a blown gearbox).

Thats right, not all old cars depreciate.
1972 Valiant Galant, paid $1100 sold for $1900, spent nothing on it.
1980 XD Wagon, paid $800 sold for $1300, spent nothing on it.
1971 XY Wagon, paid $4300 sold for $7500, spent nothing on it.
1980 Jaguar XJS, paid $5250 sold for $7500, spent nothing on it.
1979 Jeep Cherokee, paid $4200 sold for $5400, spent nothing on it.
The only thing I spent on these cars were rego costs, I dont include rego costs because you have to pay that on any car, if you keep adding rego to the cost of your car of course it will add up to huge amounts. Its not really a realistic guide.

I have never lost money on older cars
Modern cars however
1992 EB V8 Fairmont, paid $7000 sold for $4000
2004 XR8 Ute, paid $25000 sold for $20000
2002 Futura, paid $10000 sold for $7000
2005 Camry, paid $16000 now worth about $13000

Old cars I can service & repair myself, modern cars up to $500 for a service plus other repairs.

[mickyyyy]

Here is certainly an alternative to my theory. I'm sure I got kind of lucky with
my old EB as it was in OK shape when I got it.[/QUOTE]

Mine was too but i did the following in the first month of purchase for reliability.

Oil, spark and filter's service
Water pump
Thermostate
Radiator Heavy duty type

Done the above as E series are notorious for blowing head gasket's and now my car on 40degree Sydney heat with aircon on wont go past half way. Now in Autumn it just gets to the operating temp line which is below letter L.

After that i did

LPG conversion (i only added $500.00 as i got the rest from rebate)
coil pack
leads
02 sensor
temp sensor
Brake rotor's and pads all round
Tyres all round
Springs and shocks

After a few months i did

Cat replacement with highflow magnaflow
Cat back exhaust just factory replacement

All that was done within the first 6 months of ownership and has been great until 2 weeks ago when i hit a rock, and cracked my transmission case so got a reco for $1350.00. If that didnt happen and minus the lpg conversion cost difference of $500 as i made that money back my repairs would of come in at $4588.65

Most of it was replaced as im fussy and want it to be running it perfect order so could of been abit cheaper, but as u can see from money spent my car has been reliable and can still go a few more yrs.

[ebxr8240]

I have three road cars and haven't lost anything YET !!
I haven't sold or traded them in...
Would be close to $100k ..
But the GOOD thing about older cars there NO dept!!!
This where things start going bad when life gets tuff !!!

Having said that tho.. I recomend a new car to female driving to work...
Different for a young bloke if his car fails...
Especially if they have to travel through the city to get to work..

I pass my cars down to my children so we end up with spares
yes they are all E series Falcons..
Um?? with AU engines...

[EB#]

By way of some additional info to my opening post, here are a few figures
from my records of three cars. The yearly running cost figures include all fuel,
services, parts, repairs, rego and insurance.

1. '85 Daihatsu F80 Rocky, 2.0L
Owned this car 1996-2004 (purchased as an 11 year old car)
Travelled about 25K km each year.
Sample running costs...
2001: $5324
2002: $5094
2003: $4345
2004: $4726

Average: $4872
Times the car broke down: 3

2. '92 EB Fairmont, 4.0L
Owned this car 2004-2008 (purchased as a 12 year old car)
Travelled about 25K km each year.
Sample running costs...
2005: $7327
2006: $5565
2007: $7521
2008: $8876

Average: $7322
Times the car broke down: 1

3. '03 BA XR6 Falcon, 4.0L
Owned this car 2008-present (purchased as a 5 year old car)
Travelled about 25K km each year.
Sample running costs...
2009: $7761
2010: $7800

Average: $7780
Times the car broke down: 0

Interestingly, the EB and the BA have ended up being about the same cost
to run overall. The 4 cylinder, of course, makes substantial savings in fuel.

All these cars were serviced and maintained regularly, which I tend to
think improves reliability issues.

[flappist]

Toyota Yaris, bought $13,500 sold 2 years later $12,750 (wholesale)

You want to reduce your costs DO NOT BUY A BIG OR PERFORMANCE CAR.

After all the only reason you own your falcon and come to AFF is because it gets you from A to B not because you are a car enthusiast.

If you don't want to lose money on your car buy a bubblemobile and spend your savings on something you really like....tickets to see justin beeber or a hotel suite in sydney during mardigras for example.....

[Professor Farnsworth]

i'll go through mine in order:

1997 EL Fairmont Ghia I6
Bought for $13,000
Repairs etc: ~$1000
Traded for: $7000

2005 BA MKII XR6
Bought new for $32,000
Repairs (3 transmissions, two computers, several flashes (in 5000KM), crack team of transmission engineers flown down from Albury to drive car and agree "they're all like that" - all under warranty - ~$11,000)
Traded quickly for $25,500

2005 BF XR6 ZF
Bought new for $32,500
Repairs etc: none
sold back to Ford for $27,500

1996 EL Fairmont Ghia V8
Bought for $5000
repairs etc: none
Sold for $2400 (350,000KM)

1991 EB Fairmont Ghia 347ci
Bought for $3100
repairs etc: none
sold for $4000 (none of us knew it was a 347 at the time)
the one and only profit from a car = $900

2002 BA Falcon XT
Bought for $11000
Repairs etc: none
Sold back to ford for $7000

1991 NC Fairlane I6
Bought for $600
repairs etc: none
Sold for $500

1994 ED Fairmont Ghia I6
Bought for $4200
Repairs etc: $500
Traded for $2200

2003 BA Fairmont I6
Bought for $13000
Repairs etc: $200
Sold for $8000

1997 EL Fairmont Ghia V8
Bought for $5100
Repairs etc $3204.94

So as you can see, don't get into cars if you want to be savvy with your cash.

[billy302]

A very subjective subject and outcome depends on ones view.
For a none mechanically minded person the newer vehicle poses some sort of security in the belief that nothing will go wrong as its new or near new and covered by some sort of warranty.
The second hand older vehicle buyer generally has some mechanical knowledge and can pick the well maintained vehicle and get many happy years of motoring at half the price of the newer car.
So what is the conclusion?
Learn about the car you wish to buy and take someone with you who really knows mechanics not someone who pretends to know.
Don't be afraid to spend money on the vehicle of your choice.
Too many times I've heard people say they haven't spent anything on cars for years. I never want to buy these vehicles.
If buying privately, quietly in conversation, ask them where they get their vehicle serviced and when it was last serviced.
Listen and look for the answer. If they have to think then you can conclude that the vehicle has not been regularly maintained.
everyone buys a deal on something they like

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Toyota Yaris, bought

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[superyob]

Repairs on EB Falcon over last 10 years: A bazillion dollars! Every electrical/computer related thing that could break did so...

Repairs on ZD Fairlane last 18 years aside from fair wear and tear: One timing chain and gears. Which is really also fair wear and tear...

Just say NO!! to computerised cars...

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by superyob

Repairs on EB Falcon over last 10 years: A bazillion dollars! Every electrical/computer related thing that could break did so...

Repairs on ZD Fairlane last 18 years aside from fair wear and tear: One timing chain and gears. Which is really also fair wear and tear...

Just say NO!! to computerised cars...

or, say HELLO!! to 1988..

i agree with you that non efi, or even non 90's cars were cheaper to repair on the whole, but the benefits of a 90's+ car outweigh this

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by fmc351

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go easy, the Prius was on backorder!

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

or, say HELLO!! to 1988..

i agree with you that non efi, or even non 90's cars were cheaper to repair on the whole, but the benefits of a 90's+ car outweigh this

I would much rather a daily driver with air bags, ABS, crumple zones, fuel injection, immobilisers etc than have the convenience of not worrying about computers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

go easy, the Prius was on backorder!

Yes it was replaced by a Hyundai Getz.

I used to have a fleet of Falcons as work cars but they cost far too much with fuel usage, constant repairs and random down time so I replaced them with toyotas, hyundais, nissans and a Ford Ranger and, surprise, surprise, I save almost $1000 per month is fuel costs, over $1000 a year in rego, several hundred dollars in insurance and I have had ZERO unscheduled down days in over 4 years.

I only have one more falcon to get rid of, a 2005 BA2 XT with 120,000km on it. As soon as I replace the internal passenger door panel ($800), get the electronic locks fixed ($600) and get the brakes sorted so they don't randomly vibrate shaking the steering wheel violently it will be going.
I am not going to worry about all the other problems like roof lining coming loose, steering wheel falling apart or general plastic bits just turning to crap.
I could be lucky and get maybe $5,000 for this 6 year old $30,000 vehicle.

Now what was this about cost of vehicle ownership again.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes it was replaced by a Hyundai Getz.

I used to have a fleet of Falcons as work cars but they cost far too much with fuel usage, constant repairs and random down time so I replaced them with toyotas, hyundais, nissans and a Ford Ranger and, surprise, surprise, I save almost $1000 per month is fuel costs, over $1000 a year in rego, several hundred dollars in insurance and I have had ZERO unscheduled down days in over 4 years.

I only have one more falcon to get rid of, a 2005 BA2 XT with 120,000km on it. As soon as I replace the internal passenger door panel ($800), get the electronic locks fixed ($600) and get the brakes sorted so they don't randomly vibrate shaking the steering wheel violently it will be going.
I am not going to worry about all the other problems like roof lining coming loose, steering wheel falling apart or general plastic bits just turning to crap.
I could be lucky and get maybe $5,000 for this 6 year old $30,000 vehicle.

Now what was this about cost of vehicle ownership again.

haha relax big fella i was messing around

i have listed the huge losses i've had, a few posts back, i in no way claim that Fords are especially reliable. I've had most of the issues you speak of with one of my B series. Having said that, once out of warranty, Toyota's have rather high second hand genuine part prices which puts me off ever owning one again (had a corona CSi 2.4i before my fords). It was a great car but not cheap to fix.