This guy claims to have the solution to Melbourne's water crisis

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

This whole water restrictions issues is laughable.

Firstly, the world has only X amount of water, new water is not manufactured, it falls, it evaporates, it rises, it falls, it evaporates, it rises, etc, etc, etc.

It just so happens that when it falls, it falls in other places than where it is needed, this is called a drought.

After saying what I was saying above, about us being in the driest part of the State, get this! Here is Shepparton we are on Stage 1 water restrictions, that is right Stage 1 - go figure.

But alas, there is a political reason why (of course)

The city of Shepparton, like every farm, gets allocated water from the Goulburn Murray system, this allocation was established many many years ago.

Shepparton is allocated more water than it uses, figures I am hearing is that the City of Shepparton uses the equivilent water to what 6-8 diary farms use when they get ful allocation, now, there are hundreds of dairy farms and orchards around Shepparton, so you can imagine the water allocation (when full water is available to farms)

Farmers are getting about 30% water allocation (when they pay for 100%), City of Shepparton is getting 100% allocation!

A couple of years ago water was selling on the open market for about $1000 per megalitre (million litres)

We were on Stage 3 or 4, I can't remember which, but our local water board sold what water we weren't using on the open market and made a shyte load of money.

There was a huge outcry, this is NOT a water saving measure, this was profiteering at our (and the local farmers) expense, this water could be sold to anyone on the Murray Goulburn system.

And like I said previously, people have the cheek to complain about the rising prices of day to day expenditures, they just don't get it...

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Ahh my Bendigo brother, a person who does not have luxury of living on a river or in hilly country, we are more than happy to share our water with you and our bretheren in Ballarat.

The water going to Bendigo and Ballarat is from the Goulburn too. No suprise that the Goulburn is in a safe Coalition seat and Ballarat & Bendigo are marginal seats.

[RG]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

The water going to Bendigo and Ballarat is from the Goulburn too. No suprise that the Goulburn is in a safe Coalition seat and Ballarat & Bendigo are marginal seats.

I think the fact that we both almost ran out of water pushed aside the politics a little on this one.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by RG

I think the fact that we both almost ran out of water pushed aside the politics a little on this one.

Really? The water that they got came out of a system that had almost ran out itself. The storeage levels at Lake Eildon and Waranga Basin were both extremely low at the time.

[xbgs351]

Oh, and at the same time they decommissioned Lake Mokoan.

[RG]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Really? The water that they got came out of a system that had almost ran out itself. The storeage levels at Lake Eildon and Waranga Basin were both extremely low at the time.

But it wasn't having to support 200k people was it?

Two of the largest regional centres Ballarat and Bendigo are, either running out of water would have been a slightly more serious issue.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by RG

But it wasn't having to support 200k people was it?

Two of the largest regional centres Ballarat and Bendigo are, either running out of water would have been a slightly more serious issue.

Which should perhaps suggest that they are not in the right position for such large cities. The big problem for Bendigo was the proliferation of lifestyle properties complete with dams that have stopped the rain from reaching the catchments. They are the real reason that Lake Eppalock etc have been next to empty for so long.

[RG]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Which should perhaps suggest that they are not in the right position for such large cities. The big problem for Bendigo was the proliferation of lifestyle properties complete with dams that have stopped the rain from reaching the catchments. They are the real reason that Lake Eppalock etc have been next to empty for so long.

So we should move the cities?

It's because the water tables are moving, a perfectly natural event that can be forecast. Govt inaction also didn't help.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by RG

So we should move the cities?

It's because the water tables are moving, a perfectly natural event that can be forecast. Govt inaction also didn't help.

I just think it is shorty sighted to encourage the growth of cities located in areas that are naturally short of water and almost criminal to allow the proliferation of lifestyle properties.

I'm not particularly upset that the pipes from the Goulburn system went to Bendigo and Ballarat, but having yet another pipeline go to Melbourne, whilst shutting another dam in the area makes me feal like the Goulburn valley was really hard done by. If the Goulburn was in a marginal seat it just wouldn't have happened.

[RG]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

I just think it is shorty sighted to encourage the growth of cities located in areas that are naturally short of water and almost criminal to allow the proliferation of lifestyle properties.

I'm not particularly upset that the pipes from the Goulburn system went to Bendigo and Ballarat, but having yet another pipeline go to Melbourne, whilst shutting another dam in the area makes me feal like the Goulburn valley was really hard done by. If the Goulburn was in a marginal seat it just wouldn't have happened.

Growth in these areas needs to be encouraged, Melbourne obviously can't cope either.

[xbgs351]

For those of you who haven't seen the Upper Thomson River, here is a photo of the 'mighty' river that feeds Melbourne's greatest dam.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OuxhW2mkxR...239-783054.jpg

also found here: http://kz-on-the-aawt.blogspot.com/2...son-river.html

Yes that is right, you cross the river by walking across a log, or if you don't mind getting your ankles wet you can just walk across it.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by RG

Growth in these areas needs to be encouraged, Melbourne obviously can't cope either.

Why should it be encouraged if these regions don't have capacity to support the current population? just look at the Campaspe Irrigation System which is being closed. That is what Lake Eppalock was built for, not Bendigo.

[RG]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Why should it be encouraged if these regions don't have capacity to support the current population? just look at the Campaspe Irrigation System which is being closed. That is what Lake Eppalock was built for, not Bendigo.

So where do you propose people live then?

[mik]

i have to say i`m pro desal, i know there`s plenty of ways most of us can use water better and putting dam where it rains is all good and well .......but if it does`nt rain you have a big hole in the ground.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by mik

i have to say i`m pro desal, i know there`s plenty of ways most of us can use water better and putting dam where it rains is all good and well .......but if it does`nt rain you have a big hole in the ground.

Have you tasted desal water? That might change your mind.

Build enough dams and there's a higher probability that rain will be near one of them. Especially if one is built in a flood prone area.

[XRQTR]

I posed a similar question last year to an engineer currently working on the pipeline mentioned in the video, my idea though was to pipe storm water from the cities which we still get quite often and end up draining out to sea, back into the damms.

I asked what he thought about the idea and why it hadn't been considered, seeing as the pipeline was already being built it would have been of equivalent/similar costs to the current project however would not be pulling water from farming areas which also need it. His response, he paused for a moment while he thought about it, then simply said "Ye, I really don't know why it wasn't looked at".

Moral is, if something is essentially free then it's much more difficult to justify charging people more for it.



Also to add, the northern states get far more rainfall than what we do here in Vic in particular, northern NSW are still washing down driveways, however they are hoarding water, wasting it on driveways and then allowing what they don't need to simply flow into the ocean. How about the river systems be unlocked to allow more flow down south.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

If the Goulburn was in a marginal seat it just wouldn't have happened.

Absolutely spot on

This area in inundated with blue ribbon Liberal/National seats, both State and Federal - Seymour (Fran Bailey) is about the only shakey one.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by mik

i have to say i`m pro desal, i know there`s plenty of ways most of us can use water better and putting dam where it rains is all good and well .......but if it does`nt rain you have a big hole in the ground.

Spot on, also 90% of Australia's population in total live either on the coast or a very close proximity to it. The sea will always be there no matter where the drought or water table moves to.

For those that worry about the power bill for this type of water harvesting, then I think it is time that we honestly looked at nuclear power as well. It is my understanding that one of the real reasons (amoungst the usual ones such as waste etc,) that we have not travelled down this road before is that we do not have a big enough population and or industrial use for such an abundance that nuclear power will generate, (resident experts most certainly welcome here) and we are going to give it away over the next century any way. S.A. is the largest holder of single deposits in the world and is often referred to as the Saudi Arabia of the nuclear world.

Brown coal is now mortally wounded as it is now seen globally as one of the root causes of climate change (not by me though) so using it to desal sea water would been seen as a long term nonsense politically, as they claim that it just makes the drought situation even worse (supposably).

Desal is the future not only in this country but in most of the fully developed coastal countries so nuclear energy will need to become a bigger energy player over the next 20-50 years anyway. This would be our opportunity to cash in when the world turns away from traditional energy fuels just to make fresh water.

Other benefits could also include something like fully electric hi speed (400 kph) trains linking Adelaide to Melbourne to Canberra to Sydney to Coolangatta to Brisbane and to even as far north as Cairns. If you believe what they tell you about peak oil production (this one I do beleive is happening), then the "cheap jet age" will be a thing of the past in a decade or two so a rail net work like this will be essential in a country the size of Australia. It would also mean that populations would thrive along a rail net work like this so water infrastructure would be easier to build and administer.

Well just my thoughts anyway.

Bud Bud

[JazManXII]

in repsonse to Bud BUd
i dont know why nuclear has such a bad name to it

[mik]

Originally Posted by MAD

Have you tasted desal water? That might change your mind.

Build enough dams and there's a higher probability that rain will be near one of them. Especially if one is built in a flood prone area.

a lot of those hi rainfall area`s are probably around old growth forests, try and put a few monster dams in without haveing wall to wall greenies hanging form the tree`s and bulldozers.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by JazManXII

in repsonse to Bud BUd
i dont know why nuclear has such a bad name to it

Fear Mongering over the poor management of Chernobyl.

I would love for some private investment into Nuclear Electricity in Australia. The sooner it happens, the better, but it is a poisoned challis for which ever government introduces it. The opposition from the Greens (and their voters) will see this out of the public's eye for another generation at least. Solar won't cut it, wind won't cut it, and coal is done in Australia. Australia also has the added benefit of a very stable location in terms of tectonic plates. We can store our own waste in the middle of the bloody desert. Again, the greens won't like that...

[RG]

Originally Posted by JazManXII

in repsonse to Bud BUd
i dont know why nuclear has such a bad name to it

Because wind and solar power is the way of the future.

**End extreme sarcasm**

[JazManXII]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Fear Mongering over the poor management of Chernobyl.

I would love for some private investment into Nuclear Electricity in Australia. The sooner it happens, the better, but it is a poisoned challis for which ever government introduces it. The opposition from the Greens (and their voters) will see this out of the public's eye for another generation at least. Solar won't cut it, wind won't cut it, and coal is done in Australia. Australia also has the added benefit of a very stable location in terms of tectonic plates. We can store our own waste in the middle of the bloody desert. Again, the greens won't like that...

arent the odds of meltdowns ridiculously low

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by JazManXII

arent the odds of meltdowns ridiculously low

If Managed properly, zilch. The problem is, nobody reports on the good news, only the bad. Good news never made a paper sell.

There is a large, uninformed group of sheeple that believe that Nuclear Power in Australia will end up like Chernobyl or Three Mile Island, both of which were operator error. Modern plants are not like this.

We're getting way off track here, however.

[JazManXII]

yeah sorry
well if everything in the youtube link in the OP is correct( or close enough too) it does seem like nothing but a good idea for all parties involved

[JMO]

Just to add to the nuclear power statement, there was a story on 60 minutes a few years ago about a Chinese scientist (I think) that developed a system that was completely safe. I'm pretty sure that it was said that a Chernobyl type accident was impossible. From memory the nuclear fuel was in balls and immersed in water but that's all I remember.

Things like this always seem to not see the light of day though (as far as I'm aware). Just like the electric car James May test drove on Top Gear that ran on sea water, emitted only water vapour and produced enough power to light up a street. Funny that. (That's the conspiracy theorist in me talking :P)

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by mik

a lot of those hi rainfall area`s are probably around old growth forests, try and put a few monster dams in without haveing wall to wall greenies hanging form the tree`s and bulldozers.

Dams are old hat and are not the answer any more as the worlds population expands and we are no exception. They served the purpose of the last century (and prior to that with much smaller populations of course) but what seems to have happened is, as more dams were being built as economies grew, water was increasingly being diverted away from natural run offs and river systems creating newer and more complex problems left for the next generation to mop up (pun intended!) such as water shortages in regions hundreds if not thousands of miles away.

We see the effects of natural and man made dams on large scale water storage systems like the Menindee lakes right down to micro systems with the explosion of hobby farms in the 80’s and 90’s creating new dams that capture what would ordinarily run off into natural basins and streams.

Add to this the complexity off climate change (if it is true) and the fact that drought cannot be controlled by man so any newer or “monster dams” would be useless if you can't even fill the ones already in place. Would we have a water crisis in Australia if all the dams already built were at 100% and overflowing? If they were over flowing then perhaps a smaller dam down stream would be of use then.

Dams in my opinion will now serve as holding pens so the administration of water can be secured and controlled. Sure some run off will fill them during hi wet seasons but during the dry seasons they will still need to be topped up somehow. We have to face the fact that there is just too many off us in Australia for what water is now available so we will have to get it from somewhere.

The Story from the OP has an incredible tale to tell. If it is true, then somebody in Vic should be hanging their head in shame. If this system is viable then at least for Melburnians, every thing should be done to alert the mass. Kudos for the attempt to bring this too our attention as illustrated by Tophers unpopular view.

But for the rest of us Desal is now and happening. For us in S.A. there is no water and no magic bullet. What we do have is a desal plant that is being built in the very same place that petrol was once made (if you beleive the climate change camp then that is irony in itself), another proposed one to be built near Whyalla by a mining company, and enough uranium to power the world for the next 500 years.

And for the record, of course things can go wrong with desal plants in respect to fishing, wildlife seagrass etc., but what we do know now is to do due diligence including environment impact studies and stick to strict guidelines about placement and operation of these facilities. At least we have this in place now not like when big dams were first built in this country.

Bud Bud.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

And for the record, of course things can go wrong with desal plants in respect to fishing, wildlife seagrass etc., but what we do know now is to do due diligence including environment impact studies and stick to strict guidelines about placement and operation of these facilities. At least we have this in place now not like when big dams were first built in this country.

Can we trust that these studies are being done correctly, after seeing what wasnt included in the future water supply enquiry, and also the so called 'water saving' of irrigation channel upgrades.

[GASWAGON]

Tas water idea is great.... And the amount that goes out to sea is HUGE so it would'nt be needed anyways.....This should have been done instead the of desal plant for this reason alone let alone the enviro impacts the plant will have... What a joke!!!!!!!!

[Revolver]

Has Flappist's mini me been moonlighting?