Ford Fiesta Sales

[photn]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Steffo - where are those stats coming from? Majority of Yaris I see are private owners. Ever been to Market City? Damn - they are everywhere!

*EDIT*

Seems you and Photn are incorrect.

This year the Yaris/Echo stats are;

15,695 total sales (July YTD)
11,495 private sales (July YTD)

Which means that private buyers account for 73.2% of Yaris/Echo sales.

Bahaha your FUnny. lol you Edit an Earlier Post saying that me and Steffo are incorect B4 i even POST just so that you can basically say that you said it First.

[photn]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I here what you are saying but its based on your observations which might not be repeated everywhere else. Using ones own experience to base broad assumptions on is just bad science. Now we do have totally accurate figures for total sales of the yaris from Vfacts, and the article that listed the number of private sales for the yaris in that period which leads to the given 77%.

Now given the hard facts and you opinion and subjective experience I now which one I will be forced to believe. And no offence steffo but unless you can come up with some other article with a more accurate breakdown of fleet sales than those from drive than what you are saying just has no merit.

Ware where the "VFACTS" taken from. straight FROM Toyota's sales figures or generated from an outside body

btw i CBF login in so deal with it.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I here what you are saying but its based on your observations which might not be repeated everywhere else. Using ones own experience to base broad assumptions on is just bad science. Now we do have totally accurate figures for total sales of the yaris from Vfacts, and the article that listed the number of private sales for the yaris in that period which leads to the given 77%.

Now given the hard facts and you opinion and subjective experience I now which one I will be forced to believe. And no offence steffo but unless you can come up with some other article with a more accurate breakdown of fleet sales than those from drive than what you are saying just has no merit.

I have enough experience to know better. If all you can rely on is articles, especially from a murky source like Drive, then that's sad. It doesn't have to be registered anywhere as a fleet sale to be one. Private buyers make a small amount of the top 10 best selling models in Australia's sales figures. Company cars/fleet cars make up the vast majority. And as is the case with alot of company cars, they can be misinterpereted as a private sale.

And there's another whole scenario I'm not mentioning, the tax-claim lease. Many people lease new cars over and over as a tax claim. That's a really murky area of car sales right there, because its hard to determine what it should be considered, truley private or fleet. Personally I vote the latter, as its not an individual putting their own hard earned to a product they need to depend on. Its a means to an end, which disqualifies it from being a private sale.

[photn]

i agree with Steffo ........those kinda cars are classed LEASE!

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I have enough experience to know better. If all you can rely on is articles, especially from a murky source like Drive, then that's sad. It doesn't have to be registered anywhere as a fleet sale to be one. Private buyers make a small amount of the top 10 best selling models in Australia's sales figures. Company cars/fleet cars make up the vast majority. And as is the case with alot of company cars, they can be misinterpereted as a private sale.

In general, the commment about most top selling cars being fleet sellers is true. If you look at the large segment, it's roughly 70+%. If you look at the 380, it's closer to 96%!

The smaller the car, the smaller the fleet volume, in general. As fleet players, the Corolla is king of the small segment fleet market - noone really can match Toyota on price and cost of ownership (what matters to a fleet manager).

Corollas do a good handful of fleet sales, but when your're selling 3700+ per month, it's not hard to see how they can also be Australia's number one selling private car. Frankly, they do awesome fleet volumes, but their private volumes are certainly damn high too. I have seen VFACTS results broken down by sale type; yes a lot of Corollas go to fleets, but there are a lot of mums and young drivers buying Corollas too.

What source do you have to back up your claims?

Originally Posted by Steffo

And there's another whole scenario I'm not mentioning, the tax-claim lease. Many people lease new cars over and over as a tax claim. That's a really murky area of car sales right there, because its hard to determine what it should be considered, truley private or fleet. Personally I vote the latter, as its not an individual putting their own hard earned to a product they need to depend on. Its a means to an end, which disqualifies it from being a private sale.

In terms of behaviour, I'd argue many leases are closer to private buyers than fleet buyers in terms of buying behaviour - 'user choosers'. Even if they're not paying, doesn't matter - they have free choice. Further to that, in the case of novated leases, people are basically paying with their own money. This is one of the factors behind the fall in the large car segment; as people have had greater choice, people who once might have had a Falcon XT as a company car, suddenly decide to get an Accord Euro, etc. instead. Don't need the size of a Falcon, an Accord Euro has enough go, uses less fuel, has some prestige and a few more toys.

Isn't that the argument behind retail sales, people buying what they want. In the case of a novated lease, people leasing what they want.

If the choice is limited, then I'd argue they are more like fleet buyers by nature.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by Mrsfantz

Lets just get to the point.... most of the small car market is taken up by females.
Most females are clueless.... they look for things like, "is it cute", "how many cup holders does it have", "does it come in pink", etc.
The Yaris and Jazz accomodate for alot of this criteria.
Also, you must remember a lot of people think the Fiesta is just the new Festiva. We all know what a "great" car that was....

That's true but some also look at the size of the boot. Has anyone had a look at the size of the boot on the Yaris Hatch? They are tiny so shallow & small a couple bags of shopping they would be full. Space every which way in the Jazz in comparision. Im sure Toyota has lost a few private sales on the Yaris hatch due to tiny tiny boot. My Mum just bought a new car on Sat (Tango LX Fiesta 5 Door auto) Not saying the boot is huge by any means in the Fiesta but it is massive compared to Yaris hatch lol. We both test drive the Jazz & Fiesta. Didnt end up driving the Yaris even though that was Mum's preferred choice b4 opening the boot. Cause the boot was so tiny she didnt bother. But as for cute factor (if any car can be cute that is). Id rate the Yaris number one. Then the Jazz/Fiesta/Swift as equal 2. The Mazda2/Colt as equal 3. :

[Sonia]

I work for a rental company and the small cars used in our fleet nation wide consist of Yaris, Getz, Corolla, Elantra and Viva. And I know that many other rental car companies use the same vehicles.
Rental car companies basically go with a car that is cheap to buy and maintain or the dealership that has the best "buy back" scheme on offer for vehicles they can lease to us.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by photn

Bahaha your FUnny. lol you Edit an Earlier Post saying that me and Steffo are incorect B4 i even POST just so that you can basically say that you said it First.

Yea, so I wouldn't waste another post... Um, if I wanted to do that I wouldn't advertise the fact I edited it with '*EDIT*', would I?

Originally Posted by photn

Ware where the "VFACTS" taken from. straight FROM Toyota's sales figures or generated from an outside body

btw i CBF login in so deal with it.

NO. Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries. VFACTS means the consolidated national statistics for categorised sales of new motor vehicles, produced and published on a monthly basis by FCAI.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I have enough experience to know better. If all you can rely on is articles, especially from a murky source like Drive, then that's sad. It doesn't have to be registered anywhere as a fleet sale to be one. Private buyers make a small amount of the top 10 best selling models in Australia's sales figures. Company cars/fleet cars make up the vast majority. And as is the case with alot of company cars, they can be misinterpereted as a private sale.

And there's another whole scenario I'm not mentioning, the tax-claim lease. Many people lease new cars over and over as a tax claim. That's a really murky area of car sales right there, because its hard to determine what it should be considered, truley private or fleet. Personally I vote the latter, as its not an individual putting their own hard earned to a product they need to depend on. Its a means to an end, which disqualifies it from being a private sale.

Read his post. VFACTS is not collected by Drive.

Originally Posted by photn

i agree with Steffo ........those kinda cars are classed LEASE!

You serious?

I'd call them private cars. I mean, I drive my car home, don't I? So does the girl at work with her Integra Type S. Oh, and my boss and his E class. Oh, and the other boss and his RX-8. They use them for work too, but the car is a family car.

So, IMO these aren't company cars. Neither are they owned by the business (well, not really)

Originally Posted by Lagom

In general, the commment about most top selling cars being fleet sellers is true. If you look at the large segment, it's roughly 70+%. If you look at the 380, it's closer to 96%!

The smaller the car, the smaller the fleet volume, in general. As fleet players, the Corolla is king of the small segment fleet market - noone really can match Toyota on price and cost of ownership (what matters to a fleet manager).

Corollas do a good handful of fleet sales, but when your're selling 3700+ per month, it's not hard to see how they can also be Australia's number one selling private car. Frankly, they do awesome fleet volumes, but their private volumes are certainly damn high too. I have seen VFACTS results broken down by sale type; yes a lot of Corollas go to fleets, but there are a lot of mums and young drivers buying Corollas too.

What source do you have to back up your claims?



In terms of behaviour, I'd argue many leases are closer to private buyers than fleet buyers in terms of buying behaviour - 'user choosers'. Even if they're not paying, doesn't matter - they have free choice. Further to that, in the case of novated leases, people are basically paying with their own money. This is one of the factors behind the fall in the large car segment; as people have had greater choice, people who once might have had a Falcon XT as a company car, suddenly decide to get an Accord Euro, etc. instead. Don't need the size of a Falcon, an Accord Euro has enough go, uses less fuel, has some prestige and a few more toys.

Isn't that the argument behind retail sales, people buying what they want. In the case of a novated lease, people leasing what they want.

If the choice is limited, then I'd argue they are more like fleet buyers by nature.

Should have read your post earlier. BINGO! :

[Piotr]

I would say it comes down to people no liking the waiting list for the Zetec, which is the pick of the bunch IMO and because hear it comes from germany will be expensive to service and repair (Although it can get expensive and a hassle when parts have to come from germany).

If we look that the Fiesta has got a waiting list on some models it comes down to a supply issue that is limiting sales on popular spec levels. Im sure plenty of potential buyers are put of waiting for the car to arrive.

Offtopic could people please either use only 1 post to put their point across not several within a few minutes or each other. The edit feature is there for a reason.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by Piotr

I would say it comes down to people no liking the waiting list for the Zetec, which is the pick of the bunch IMO and because hear it comes from germany will be expensive to service and repair (Although it can get expensive and a hassle when parts have to come from germany).

If we look that the Fiesta has got a waiting list on some models it comes down to a supply issue that is limiting sales on popular spec levels. Im sure plenty of potential buyers are put of waiting for the car to arrive.

Offtopic could people please either use only 1 post to put their point across not several within a few minutes or each other. The edit feature is there for a reason.

Just on that point as it comes from Germany in general terms is the Fiesta any dearer to service than for example the Yaris or Jazz? Also as it gets older and needs parts replacing are these items on par with Yaris or Jazz?

[photn]

Originally Posted by Teki04

You serious?

Yes actually. Why!? you ask?.

Well My car is under a Novated Lease. Now i Pay the Fleet Company Out of my PRE-TAX dollars for the car, everything, Absolutely EVERYTHING.

I chose the car. i went did research talked to dealers. when i found the one i wanted i said to leasing company. Yo i want this with this and this from this dealer who gave me this price. Now they go out and buy it. and its under my name BUT!!! the name also incorporates the Fleet service so its

Sean Coleman & Macmillian Shakespear Fleet Services.

So when i go in to get the Car serviced or anything done on it such as a tyre rotation and balance + allignment i go its a fleet car. then they ring up and get the OK b4 they do anything on the car.

So my car IS a fleet car.

to me there are 2 types of Fleet cars. Company Fleet cars and Novated Fleet cars. the later is just giving you the choice of what you want, baically personalisation.

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

Just on that point as it comes from Germany in general terms is the Fiesta any dearer to service than for example the Yaris or Jazz? Also as it gets older and needs parts replacing are these items on par with Yaris or Jazz?

Ive found servicing to cost the same as any other car but the with the fiesta the service comes at every 15,000km not 10,000km like some other jap brands. Repair wise I wouldn't expect it to be more expensive than anything else, if you use 2nd hand parts from fiestas already here, but if something has to be imported from Germany the worst part is waiting for it to arrive.

Id say its on par or at most a tiny fraction more than other cars in terms of costs.

[Imolator]

Well Services should be on par, but parts pricing might be dearer here is a list of parts compared to the Holden Euro Barina

RETAIL PARTS PRICES at April 2004
ITEM Ford Fiesta Holden Barina
Alternator belt $115.13 $53.35
Air filter $28.85 $19.69
Fuel filter $27.61 $30.80
Front brake pads $204.60 $126.50
Front brake rotors (pair $246.40 $368.50
Radiator hoses (top and bottom) $47.38 $62.70
Radiator $242.00 $275.00
Rear exhaust muffler $344.30 $226.60
Head light assembly $258.50 $198.00
Tail light assembly $121..00 $203.30
Windscreen $401.50 $286.00
TOTAL $2037.27 $1850.44

lets just hope we dont do a windscreen or a rear exhaust. And the alternator drive belt is quite expensive too.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&cd=10

[photn]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Well Services should be on par, but parts pricing might be dearer here is a list of parts compared to the Holden Euro Barina

RETAIL PARTS PRICES at April 2004
ITEM Ford Fiesta Holden Barina
Alternator belt $115.13 $53.35
Air filter $28.85 $19.69
Fuel filter $27.61 $30.80
Front brake pads $204.60 $126.50
Front brake rotors (pair $246.40 $368.50
Radiator hoses (top and bottom) $47.38 $62.70
Radiator $242.00 $275.00
Rear exhaust muffler $344.30 $226.60
Head light assembly $258.50 $198.00
Tail light assembly $121..00 $203.30
Windscreen $401.50 $286.00
TOTAL $2037.27 $1850.44

lets just hope we dont do a windscreen or a rear exhaust. And the alternator drive belt is quite expensive too.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&cd=10

well if you needed to get your rear exhaust done by then (unless you had a freak acident in chich case there are many diff situations...ur at fault or there at fault. if you had comprehensive cover or not) your car would be out of warranty and you wouldnt have to worry about aftermarket ones. due to the fact that going down to your local service centre you can get an exhaust system for alot cheaper than 344. especially if its nothing special and theres no real work involved.i.e. getting a resonator or sumthing special like a bog stock exhaust.

[Imolator]

I think the point was to compare original part costs.

[Teki04]

Flipping hell!

That's cheap Imolator! My windscreen costs $800 and my exhaust is $1,500 :P But that's another matter.

Whilst I owned the Fiesta I thought it was very cheap to maintain. As Piotr said, the servicing was every 15,000kms not 10,000kms like most (aka MINE!). On top of that the service costs were always cheap, which is great. Of the parts I replaced, I found them to be reasonably priced and at worst I had to wait overnight for them to arrive from Melbourne. Oh, and trust me, the Jazz ain't cheap to service :

[Imolator]

All Hondas are expensive to service, and unlike a lot of other manufactures who cater to fleets they dont have an unrealisticly high service interval. To my way of thinking 15000k's or 1 year is just to long for the majority of cars and the way most drivers use them. 10000k's or 6months makes much more sense, especially if you expect the engine to last the distance. Of course if you sell your car every 2 or 3 years its the next owner who will pay for these long service intervals.

As for the parts I think it is valid to compare the euro fez to the euro barina, the c3 is in a different class isn't it?

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

All Hondas are expensive to service, and unlike a lot of other manufactures who cater to fleets they dont have an unrealisticly high service interval. To my way of thinking 15000k's or 1 year is just to long for the majority of cars and the way most drivers use them. 10000k's or 6months makes much more sense, especially if you expect the engine to last the distance. Of course if you sell your car every 2 or 3 years its the next owner who will pay for these long service intervals.

As for the parts I think it is valid to compare the euro fez to the euro barina, the c3 is in a different class isn't it?

Well 15,000kms is becoming the norm. I do believe my cousin's Citroen C2 VTR has the same service interval.

And yes, Hondas are extremely expensive to service. Hence my parents no longer service them with Honda since the warranty ran out.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Well 15,000kms is becoming the norm. I do believe my cousin's Citroen C2 VTR has the same service interval.

And yes, Hondas are extremely expensive to service. Hence my parents no longer service them with Honda since the warranty ran out.

I know its becoming the norm, but if you investigate closely you will find that the manufacturers that specify those intervals also list more frequent services for cars mainly driven in the city. Those long service intervals are for maketing purposes only. They make the car appear cheaper to service, but the way most people drive their cars those intervals are not suitable and the manufactures know it. That is why in all their service manuals they will list more frequent services for cars that do stop start city work.

Now a lot of owners who sell their cars every few years will just do the minimum services as listed and those engines if mainly driven in the city will be forming sludge which will eventualy take its toll on the engine and be paid for by the poor sap who buys their car.

[photn]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I think the point was to compare original part costs.

true but i was just pointing out that a service centre would be cheaper again.

[Teki04]

Agree with you Imolator. I used to do oil changes on my Fiesta more regularly then 15,000kms.

With the other things you mentioned - I look to change cars before 4 years max anyway.

[Piotr]

Imolator car makers have NOT change the way they determine service intervals. If your car is having a hard life it should be serviced more regularly whether it has 10k or 15k intervals. Lets say city driving cuts the service interval in half the 15k service will become 7.5k and 10k has become 5 so it still holds the same advantage.

Cars can have 15k service intervals becuase of advanced in metalurgy (Low friction, low weight, high strength alloys), machining (Much tighter tollerances) and oil technology.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Piotr

Imolator car makers have NOT change the way they determine service intervals. If your car is having a hard life it should be serviced more regularly whether it has 10k or 15k intervals. Lets say city driving cuts the service interval in half the 15k service will become 7.5k and 10k has become 5 so it still holds the same advantage.

Cars can have 15k service intervals becuase of advanced in metalurgy (Low friction, low weight, high strength alloys), machining (Much tighter tollerances) and oil technology.

Modern car engines actually demand much more of their engine oils , and not only that the majority of car owners cant be trusted to check their tyres let alone work out what is the best service interval for their car based on useage.

Why dont all manufactures use 15000k service intervals? Why is it that some still do 10000k intervals?

Could it be because the brands that still specify 10000k's actually care about their product and those that own them. I have the Haynes workshop manual for the Fiesta, and they say " Ford state that the engine oil and filter should be changed every 12500miles or 12mths. However oil and filter changes are good for the engine, and we recommend that the oil and filter are renewed more frequently, especially if the car is used on a lot of short journeys."


Their recommended interval is 6000 miles or 6 months.

Note that it is a general recommendation, not just for cars used on short journeys.

I'll put it this way all things being equal, 2 cars 1 owner follows the book regarding oil and filter changes, the other has them done at 7,500 or every 6 months. Which would you think would have the cleaner engine, and which engine would you think would last the longest?

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I'll put it this way all things being equal, 2 cars 1 owner follows the book regarding oil and filter changes, the other has them done at 7,500 or every 6 months. Which would you think would have the cleaner engine, and which engine would you think would last the longest?

I'd guess the one with the better motor oil!!

And I'm sorry, I'd back Ford over Haynes any day. Good books, but not a mega million dollar research establishment.

And to be honest, most cars fall apart before their engines "wear out" under normal conditions.

If you took your argument to a logical conclusion, you'd change engine oil every week.

With regard to those manufacturers who recommend 10,000, don't forget that servicing is one of the big income earners for dealers, and the more motor companies can make sure that dealers are earning a good quid from the workshop, the less flack they get about tight margins on vehicles

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

I'd guess the one with the better motor oil!!

And I'm sorry, I'd back Ford over Haynes any day. Good books, but not a mega million dollar research establishment.

And to be honest, most cars fall apart before their engines "wear out" under normal conditions.

If you took your argument to a logical conclusion, you'd change engine oil every week.

With regard to those manufacturers who recommend 10,000, don't forget that servicing is one of the big income earners for dealers, and the more motor companies can make sure that dealers are earning a good quid from the workshop, the less flack they get about tight margins on vehicles

I did say all thing being equal, and yes I realise that the dealers make money out of servicing. But given the job that an engine oil has to do, I dont believe that an oil or filter no mater how good can be doing just as good a job 15000k's down the track as it can on day one. And what evidence to you have to support your comments against haynes.

There is no way I'll leave engine oil in my car for a whole year, I'll be changing mine every 6 months myself as well as the filter. Its the cheapest insurance policy for your engine.

You know engine oil never actually wears out, its the contaminents left over from the combustion process that does the actual harm. And the car manufactureres are pretty safe, at the intervals that they list the damage will be long term not evidenced in the short term. And they dont mind cars needing major surgery later on in life now do they. Helps keep their spare parts division liquid.

[Piotr]

Some engine use 10,000k service intervals and some use 15,000 intervals becuase the engines are designed differently. The same reason why different different engines use different oil.

I don't know what your argument is. Because not matter what engine or what service interval if you use it only on very short trips it will need to be serviced more frequently. Lest look at your example again, 2 Identicals cars cept 1 engine is designed for 10,000km service and the other 15,000km and both are serviced @ 7,500km over time the 15,000km service intervals will be better.

Ford has spent thousands of hour in testing labs to see what the engine can handle while haynes has not, Enough said.

And ford recommend 15,000km not 20,000km as stated in your haynes manual.

*EDIT* And no, Ford don't want to keep a massive stockpile of 1.6L Zetec-Se engine parts in storage, Not only does it cost money to first produce them, it costs money to store the parts and takes away a production line while it could be used to make new engines for new models.

[melbzetec]

[QUOTE=Imolator][B], I dont believe that an oil or filter no mater how good can be doing just as good a job 15000k's down the track as it can on day one. [QUOTE]

I've seen the evidence may times on synthetic oils. And it's not so much contaminants that create the problem, but in mineral oils, the fact that the different size carbon molecules shear each other and literally break down the oil. One of the reasons synthetics are so good is that the carbon molecules are all the same size and don't shear each other. Wait till we get oil made from buckyballs!!!

Having said all that, I'll always use synthetic, and change more often!!!

And how did this discussion get into a Fiesta sales thread?????lol

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Piotr

And ford recommend 15,000km not 20,000km as stated in your haynes manual.

.

The Haynes manual is an English manual, and Ford in England do infact list 12500 miles or 6 months as the service Interval. Its only Ford Australia which has changed it to 15000k's for this market.

Ford cant even get the Australian service book right. All those with WQ model fiestas check your service manual for the following contradiction.

Page 35 in the table of services ford state that the first "B" service takes place at 60,000k's or 4 years which is the same as Ford England (from Haynes).

Now look at page 48 at the service record section, it lists the first "B" service as 45,000k,s or 3 years. Which one do we go by?

Its funny but the table on page 35 mirrors the schedule of services listed by Ford of England and Europe.

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in Ford Australia's attention to detail. :

[Imolator]

[/QUOTE]And how did this discussion get into a Fiesta sales thread?????lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know but at least were talking As soon as mine has done 3000k's, I'll put in some castrol edge 5w 30 and a good filter. I'm still shocked to find that they expect the initial oil fill to last till 15,000k's in a new engine. I might be showing my age but all new cars I've ever had before this one ( and I've had a lot) had first oil changes of between 1000k,s to 1500k,s.