VFACTS July 2023

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think the problem is I actually enjoy driving,

Incorrect. I enjoy driving also however I'll keep my territory over falcon any day.

How tall are you? How old are you? I suspect that might tell a story.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Incorrect. I enjoy driving also however I'll keep my territory over falcon any day.

How tall are you? How old are you? I suspect that might tell a story.

180cm and 31, however I do have L4/L5/S1 bulged discs in my lower back from a workplace injury which causes nerve pain.

I find with the lower back, its more about the seat itself and its support rather than the height of the seat - something with a flat seat is a problem, but the Recaros in the Fiesta ST - mint.

If the seat is flat then its 20 minutes before I got dramas, if its good, then I can drive non stop.

All the Euro Ford hatches, the seats are great from the povvo spec right up to the ST models.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't ever intend on driving one either, I don't need to drive a Puma to know that its going to drive worse than the Fiesta its based on,

You're comparing apples and oranges between the NA Fiesta and the boosted Puma, one uses ye olde Ford Sigma engine with VVTI and the other is a modern turbo 1L 3 cylinder engine - compare it with a WZ Fiesta Sport which has the same engine as the Puma.

We've got both a WZ ST Fiesta and a povvo spec 1.6L WS CL Fiesta - the WZ ST Fiesta uses less fuel than the naturally aspirated variant while making twice the power and torque, both 1.6L 4 cylinder engines but one dates back to the 1990s.

I took said WZ Fiesta ST on a 4000km drive across VIC/NSW/QLD and ACT, and I've used it for Adelaide and return six times, I wouldn't say its 'uncomfortable' or 'difficult' to get in and out of but I suspect my tolerance is higher.

We've got the least amount of choice ever in the new car market we've ever seen, you want something thats not an SUV or a Thailand Special then good luck.

Two options under $60K for someone who wants something thats manual and boosted:

Hyundai i30N
Subaru WRX

I think the problem is I actually enjoy driving, the people who buy SUVs use them to get from A-B and thats why a white goods manufacturer like Toyota dominates the market.

Trying to change my opinion about SUVs and Thailand Specials, you'd have more luck convincing a brick wall

You are damning yourself. You should drive (Puma)one. And only then can you compare.


Umm I have a confession to make. MG ZS $23990.
I got a lift in one yesterday. Quite a tidy interior. Good looking seats but flat and probably unsupportive. I couldnt pick the gear changes.

As basic a-b transport burbs area for a non driver driver I can see why people buy them.

I would not buy one as I like a car to be a driver drivers car even if its only in some areas.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

180cm and 31, however I do have L4/L5/S1 bulged discs in my lower back from a workplace injury which causes nerve pain.

I find with the lower back, its more about the seat itself and its support rather than the height of the seat - something with a flat seat is a problem, but the Recaros in the Fiesta ST - mint.

If the seat is flat then its 20 minutes before I got dramas, if its good, then I can drive non stop.

All the Euro Ford hatches, the seats are great from the povvo spec right up to the ST models.

You will be in a suv at age 40.
I moved to suv at age 67.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

You will be in a suv at age 40.
I moved to suv at age 67.

At the rate I'm going I'll probably be in the ground by age 40 and SUV in 6 months

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

180cm and 31, however I do have L4/L5/S1 bulged discs in my lower back from a workplace injury which causes nerve pain.

I find with the lower back, its more about the seat itself and its support rather than the height of the seat .

Good luck with the truck ownership then.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Interesting point, curious about the difference between the Fiesta and Puma as well.

Ok
I ve just measured puma seat from the very front ( towards bonnet) top of the seat base cushion to the ground set for my 1.83 frame

It 0.730

Measure your st fiesta and post back

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Ok
I ve just measured puma seat from the very front ( towards bonnet) top of the seat base cushion to the ground set for my 1.83 frame

It 0.730

Measure your st fiesta and post back

450mm to lowest point where my *** would sit
565mm to the highest point where my thigh would be

Measuring off the side bolster of the seat on the right hand side.

Seating position is in its lowest spot, can rest my elbow on the top of the door trim and drive with two fingers in the 3 o'clock position of the wheel

That puts the Puma seating position around 165mm higher than the WZ Fiesta ST at its highest point.

[kevino]

Not a lot in it
But Puma compared to
My wife’s Polo and my prev Skoda Fabia is def much higher

Although our comparison is pretty unscientific

[kevino]

But lowest to lowest is 300 ish still sfa

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kevino

But lowest to lowest is 300 ish still sfa

It's more than you think.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

450mm to lowest point where my *** would sit

What was it new...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

What was it new...

You're not wrong, she's a bit flat

[kevino]

And of course maybe those recaro s are mounted higher than the standard fiesta buckets

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

, however I do have L4/L5/S1 bulged discs in my lower back .

Anti inflammatory and physio can improve bulging discs. Steroid injections (anti inflammatory straight to the source) can also improve it if physio can't. Don't try to 'man up' as it will cost you later in life.

I'm only 46 and had to have surgery last year (l5s1). It's a long road after that.

You only get 1 back.

That's why higher cars are more popular with those slightly more senior in years.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

And of course maybe those recaro s are mounted higher than the standard fiesta buckets

Povvo spec sits at 535mm *** level and 630mm at thigh level.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I wonder where hilux would be without their Workmate 4x2 petrol Auto at low 30's....


Its the only affordable 2wd ute on the market with Auto trans, camera etc (fleet).



Something similar in a Ranger is close to 50k, 4x2 Highrider 2.0 Auto.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Anti inflammatory and physio can improve bulging discs. Steroid injections (anti inflammatory straight to the source) can also improve it if physio can't. Don't try to 'man up' as it will cost you later in life.

I'm only 46 and had to have surgery last year (l5s1). It's a long road after that.

You only get 1 back.

That's why higher cars are more popular with those slightly more senior in years.

I found exercise bike worked pretty well, it built up the core muscles in my lower back which supports my spine and reduces dramas going on, especially over long term.

Been to all sorts of medical professions and they did things like exercises, one did this laser thing on my back which worked wonders but only for like 2 weeks before it was back to normal, exercise bike worked way better long term.

Was early 20s when it happened, so its been about a decade with it and its just something I've gotta live with unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I wonder where hilux would be without their Workmate 4x2 petrol Auto at low 30's....


Its the only affordable 2wd ute on the market with Auto trans, camera etc (fleet).



Something similar in a Ranger is close to 50k, 4x2 Highrider 2.0 Auto.

I want to see the sales breakdown of Hilux 4x2 and Hilux 4x4 like we see with the Ranger.

I've only seen one of the new Ranger single cabs on the road and I do a 120km daily commute.

[naddis01]

4×2 Utes: Toyota HiLux (893), Isuzu D-Max (389), Ford Ranger (315)
4×4 Utes: Ford Ranger (4828), Toyota HiLux (3777), Isuzu D-Max (1681)

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by naddis01

4×2 Utes: Toyota HiLux (893), Isuzu D-Max (389), Ford Ranger (315)
4×4 Utes: Ford Ranger (4828), Toyota HiLux (3777), Isuzu D-Max (1681)

Hilux is obviously up there but its still not huge numbers even though its circa $20K cheaper at the entry point.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I found exercise bike worked pretty well, it built up the core muscles in my lower back which supports my spine and reduces dramas going on, especially over long term.

Been to all sorts of medical professions and they did things like exercises, one did this laser thing on my back which worked wonders but only for like 2 weeks before it was back to normal, exercise bike worked way better long term.

Was early 20s when it happened, so its been about a decade with it and its just something I've gotta live with unfortunately.



I want to see the sales breakdown of Hilux 4x2 and Hilux 4x4 like we see with the Ranger.

I've only seen one of the new Ranger single cabs on the road and I do a 120km daily commute.

Have you tried non invasive spinal stretching available at physio- osteo

I have the L4/5 very worn too

I might try the exercise bike if it’s worked for you

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by PG2

I know, off topic - but...

With all of this speak about seat height, I wonder how the seat height of a current SUV would compare to a HQ Kingswood / XA Falcon or a VN Commodore / EA Falcon.

Speaking of which, same with ground clearances.

I am only asking as since about 2002, sedans/wagons became more European like and became lower and lower. Was this in hindsight a mistake for Australia's market?

If seating positions had remained static over the years with seat heights etc in sedans/wagons would the sedan or wagon still be popular?

This is a good observation.

In the 2000s handling ruled supreme, top gear was in fashion, seats got hard, suspension got hard - the more luxury and expensive the model, the harder the seats. And suspension went lower. A big mistake - SUVs took off and overtook 'sedan' type cars.

By the mid 2010's, the Aussie sedans were all but gone. Looking at a VF, the cheapest variant rode the nicest... On the last VF they had a higher 'country pack suspension' option, too.

As for heights, cars like the HG, HQ, XY all had to have clearance as they were used in the wheatbelts and the bush to an extent. If you go to a Territory's clearance, it would be similar I reckon.

Subys do really well in the country, I think they have about that 200mm to 220mm, as do the new Cruisers.

The medium SUV in stance and height is probably not far off the 1960 FB/EK Holden... and dual cab utes, too, probably ride pretty close to an EK ute.

[Franco Cozzo]

The trend towards SUVs and utes is starting to make waves in the media

Bigger, dirtier, more dangerous: How ‘auto-besity’ is a health risk for everyone

Australia’s top-selling cars are becoming more dangerous for other motorists, pedestrians and cyclists, as sports utility vehicles and utes replace family sedans as the country’s vehicle of choice.

Experts say the country’s lack of emissions standards has driven the importation of larger gas guzzlers while tax perks have encouraged motorists to buy bigger vehicles than they need, as alarm now grows over the new generation of oversized American trucks arriving on local streets.

SUVs and light commercial vehicles including utes made up 76 per cent of new vehicles sold in Australia in 2022 – up from 45 per cent a decade ago. Sedans and other passenger cars dropped from half of all new cars sold to just one-in-five over the same period.

Most new vehicles sold in Australia have a 5-star rating under the Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), but Monash University Accident Research Centre director Stuart Newstead said those ratings did not fully reflect the danger posed to others when motorists bought larger vehicles.

“The risk of death and serious injury posed by a ute compared to a medium car is about 30 per cent higher,” he said. “So you’ve got to ask yourself, does everyone need to driving around in a ute? I don’t think so.”

Manufacturers, however, said one-third of SUVs sold are small models and that new cars are consistently getting safer.

Victoria Walks executive officer Ben Rossiter said vehicles that wide were particularly dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians crossing narrow streets, and often totally unnecessary.

“Most of them I see are not towing anything,” Rossiter said. “It feels like it’s an arms race – people buy bigger vehicles because it makes them feel safe, but it makes it unsafe for others.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/b...03-p5dtkg.html

There's lots of discussions around extra taxes and things like charges for large vehicles in metropolitan areas going on in that article, this keeps coming up.

I reckon we might see something like this on the radar occuring sooner rather than later as it picks up pace in the media.

[prydey]

Haha, those articles are too funny.

5 people get together and form an echo chamber and the think it's done kind of major view.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Haha, those articles are too funny.

5 people get together and form an echo chamber and the think it's done kind of major view.

Yep, and its even lead to a referendum too

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The trend towards SUVs and utes is starting to make waves in the media



https://www.theage.com.au/national/b...03-p5dtkg.html

There's lots of discussions around extra taxes and things like charges for large vehicles in metropolitan areas going on in that article, this keeps coming up.

I reckon we might see something like this on the radar occuring sooner rather than later as it picks up pace in the media.

Reading that article, they’re trying to make the case against larger pickups and SUVs as being more dangerous to pedestrians. While that’s true, pedestrians make up at best 14% of annual road deaths. So unless pressure groups are proposing legislation to prevent people buying their preferred vehicle (emissions?), I don’t see much change to vehicle sales mix.

Perhaps a better question is why pedestrians are being hit by vehicles in the first place…
I think human behaviours of either pedestrians or drivers are more than likely the cause…

[jpd80]

Does anyone have last months sales data on Ram and Silverado sales?
I’m curious to see if they are still staying strong

[kevino]

Chev up 43.7% 240 (jul)
Ram 378 down 11.3% (jul)

carexpert.com.au has all the stats

[prydey]

Those numbers show just how ridiculous those news articles are.

I guess those vehicles are very noticeable so it is possible to think they are more numerous than they actually are.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Interesting point, curious about the difference between the Fiesta and Puma as well.

While not a Fiesta, our daughter's SA Focus is being serviced tomorrow and her loan vehicle is a Puma so I'll measure them up...however I already know I don't enjoy getting into the Focus, and I'm only average height, driving it is another story...