UK to Ban Diesel and Petrol Cars by 2040.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by CoolBFWagon

Autogas is used in U.K because petrol is around $2.00p/ltr and is also why 4 cylinder cars are so popular in Europe compared to U.S/Oz gas guzzlers.

Not only that, the taxes on cars in Europe that are over 1.8 - 2.0 is massive.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

good thing about london underground is the journey alternates if one line goes down, certainly from where I am I have Overground, DLR, river boat and in 2018 crossrail Thames clipper also has onboard bars for morning coffee or evening beer, leather recliners too...ok not really a recliner but a leather seat with legroom and Im yet to have to stand) I can also cycle in less time than all of them, except crossrail but thats 2018. I also have bus routes but with two interchanges not to dissimilar to the tube but it does take a fair bit longer because busses rely on roads congested with drivers!
in the time between now and when the last diesel car is scrapped in 2060 ish there is 43 years of development in infrastructure. Crossrail opens fully in 2019 adding an additional 200 million journeys PA. on top of LUL's 1,700 Million in 2016. We are gearing up to bid on Crossrail 2 soon at work which when (if) it comes online in 2030ish will add another 200+ million journeys.
Im currently working on station upgrades which are to cater to journey/trip estimates for 2051. there is significant future-proofing underway.
We now have 4 all night lines on the weekends, really geared to the late night economy, the need just isn't there weekdays as we are not working 24 hour days yet! the odd few who need to long commute weekdays after night have very good options, busses, and a plethora of taxi or taxi like options. On the odd occasion I leave the office midweek after midnight its a reasonable 40 pound fare and 40 minutes. Work pays too! It's not uncommon to see cyclists this hour for those on 20-40 minute commutes.

92 percent of the Underground is ticket funded too.
Governments have good reason to pay upfront or subsidise the new rail infrastructure as its a lot cheaper than a road-structure to accommodate the journeys, the health impact of that many more cars on the road would be catastrophic and the economy would just stop as every street corner would be gridlock, nowhere to park such nobody could turn up to work.

JP

Interesting post JP particularly the prospect of Crossrail 2. Parts of the existing tube network are victims of their age - some of those lines are 150+ years old and it seemed to me during my last visit were operating at capacity with no obvious ways to expand. I mean, the trains shoot through those old tunnels with very little clearance so the rolling stock options are limited. Made me wonder if the time will come where the oldest lines will just have to be decommissioned, or if the new projects such as Crossrail will supplement them sufficiently.

I think for a country the size and population density of the UK it's a no brainer to ban ICE powered cars eventually, but it's a bit more difficult in a country like Australia...

[simon varley]

maybe it's changed then because when I was living there there were no lpg cars on the road, despite there being filling stations.

[simon varley]

http://www.uklpg.org/advice-and-info...icle-register/

I guess not to be sniffed at, but tiny compared to the 53 million other cars on the UK roads

[Jastel]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

good thing about london underground is the journey alternates if one line goes down, certainly from where I am I have Overground, DLR, river boat and in 2018 crossrail Thames clipper also has onboard bars for morning coffee or evening beer, leather recliners too...ok not really a recliner but a leather seat with legroom and Im yet to have to stand) I can also cycle in less time than all of them, except crossrail but thats 2018. I also have bus routes but with two interchanges not to dissimilar to the tube but it does take a fair bit longer because busses rely on roads congested with drivers!
in the time between now and when the last diesel car is scrapped in 2060 ish there is 43 years of development in infrastructure. Crossrail opens fully in 2019 adding an additional 200 million journeys PA. on top of LUL's 1,700 Million in 2016. We are gearing up to bid on Crossrail 2 soon at work which when (if) it comes online in 2030ish will add another 200+ million journeys.
Im currently working on station upgrades which are to cater to journey/trip estimates for 2051. there is significant future-proofing underway.
We now have 4 all night lines on the weekends, really geared to the late night economy, the need just isn't there weekdays as we are not working 24 hour days yet! the odd few who need to long commute weekdays after night have very good options, busses, and a plethora of taxi or taxi like options. On the odd occasion I leave the office midweek after midnight its a reasonable 40 pound fare and 40 minutes. Work pays too! It's not uncommon to see cyclists this hour for those on 20-40 minute commutes.

92 percent of the Underground is ticket funded too.
Governments have good reason to pay upfront or subsidise the new rail infrastructure as its a lot cheaper than a road-structure to accommodate the journeys, the health impact of that many more cars on the road would be catastrophic and the economy would just stop as every street corner would be gridlock, nowhere to park such nobody could turn up to work.

JP

Yes things are improving...good to see.
I recall on my first visit around 2000 ish getting thrown off the tube at midnight because it closed, didnt even finish the trip!

Next visit drinking on the tube was allowed.
Then banned again...

My last visit last year catching the tube at 2am was a novelty.

The taxi like options (uber) are one of the main congestion problems in all large cities as they are totally unregulated and uncapped in numbers.
I could notice the difference in London on my last visit.

Not sure if you are up to date on what is happening in Brisbane, the train drivers are on strike one week, then the bus drivers the next week...so the whole city grinds to a stop because of union crap.
Throw in breakdowns, terrorism or weather delays to the mix as well.

I am not saying I disagree with public transport but private cars will be here for a while yet...

[jpblue1000]

The impact a public transport strike or major event has is telling on the vital importance of a system on a city. In my experience of similar events in Melbourne, while annoying and caused massive delays there was still movement of people. They took the alternate of self driving in the traffic they produce.
In London, new York and other major big city scenarios there is no private alternative. Most Londoners and new yorkers dont own cars a large percent don have licenses. There has been a massive uptake in cycling to combat both delay and crowding.
Its quite telling also the ratio of numbers if individual trips per year and a systems total stations. The crowding in places like Tokyo where the number of trips almost double that of London with about half the stations.
Imagine trying to get the 1.7 billion trips onto the road per anum. Just never going to happen.
A typical modern post war western city can dedicate as much or more than 35 percent of their land area to streets. New yorks 1811 plan has 36 peercent and another 15 percent dedicated to open space. London and many older cities have substantially less area dedicated to the street and its use. Further reason why governments curbing private car use and by default ownership. The UK proposal is not a ban on private cars. Its a ban on the sale of traditional internal combustion engines. Just like the congestion and clean air charges are a disincentive to drive into the worst congested ot polluted areas. Sometimes the cost to the community has to be at the expense of the luxury of the individual. The UK has reached that point.
Yes there are challenges here, imaging small towns in asia who's population is expected to grow by another 1.4 billion. Hundreds of new cities ranging between 1 and 20million people. The car may survive, private use may not!
JP