Australia records highest road toll in over a decade

[whynot]

Originally Posted by simon varley

It's just about impossible to point to one or even two specific things that have contributed to the ongoing reduction in fatalities year on year, but my belief is that it is the engineering improvements, rather than enforcement, or infrastructure changes imposed externally.
[/url]

Great charts!

Just stating the obvious (of which I am sure you are aware), but it does take some time for engineering improvements to progress though the national fleet. It isn't a step change. Probably about a good decade between when something became mandatory (e.g. ABS) and when inexperienced drivers started buying these cars in bulk.

If the general populous keeps carrying on the way they do (e.g. hyped-up male tradies in top-heavy over-modified 4WD or young female drivers glued to their mobile phone), then the ability to self drive will be taken out of our hands.

And, as a society, we deserve that punishment.

[Cav]

Australia's death toll is around 5 point something per 100k population.

Japan's is around 2 point something.

Are Japanese drivers betterer?

Do these figures stack up? (pun intended)

Perhaps a better comparison should be based on car ownership which in Japan is 70% compared to Australia's 90% (give or take).

Most deaths on Australian roads occur in the country/regions.

Japan has freeways that traverse the country usually via freeways above the ground. Head on crashes are impossible because they are separated. Any driver veering off the lane is caught by a rail guard. Japanese drivers are courteous, give way; and adhere to keep left rule.

Australians by contrast tend to be aggressive drivers, tailgating, quick to overtake, hanging drivers out to dry when merging and any inattention on country roads will see them spiralling off into the scrub or hitting oncoming traffic. There are big consequences for minor errors.

Plus big has right of way on roundabouts

[prydey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

With all the electronics and automatics gearboxes fitted to modern vehicles, I guess it will be only a matter of time before they are speed limited by GPS.

Us still driving around in our drug money old sh*tboxes will be getting all the fines to legislate us off the roads.

Don't wind down your window though or the wind might blow your tin foil hat off

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Cav

Australia's death toll is around 5 point something per 100k population.

Japan's is around 2 point something.

Are Japanese drivers betterer?

Do these figures stack up? (pun intended)

Perhaps a better comparison should be based on car ownership which in Japan is 70% compared to Australia's 90% (give or take).

Most deaths on Australian roads occur in the country/regions.

Japan has freeways that traverse the country usually via freeways above the ground. Head on crashes are impossible because they are separated. Any driver veering off the lane is caught by a rail guard. Japanese drivers are courteous, give way; and adhere to keep left rule.

Australians by contrast tend to be aggressive drivers, tailgating, quick to overtake, hanging drivers out to dry when merging and any inattention on country roads will see them spiralling off into the scrub or hitting oncoming traffic. There are big consequences for minor errors.

Plus big has right of way on roundabouts

Australians on average drive twice as much per year than Japanese.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cav

Australia's death toll is around 5 point something per 100k population.

Japan's is around 2 point something.

Are Japanese drivers betterer?

Do these figures stack up? (pun intended)

Perhaps a better comparison should be based on car ownership which in Japan is 70% compared to Australia's 90% (give or take).

Most deaths on Australian roads occur in the country/regions.

Japan has freeways that traverse the country usually via freeways above the ground. Head on crashes are impossible because they are separated. Any driver veering off the lane is caught by a rail guard. Japanese drivers are courteous, give way; and adhere to keep left rule.

Australians by contrast tend to be aggressive drivers, tailgating, quick to overtake, hanging drivers out to dry when merging and any inattention on country roads will see them spiralling off into the scrub or hitting oncoming traffic. There are big consequences for minor errors.

Plus big has right of way on roundabouts

Our attitudes to driving are horrible but what's the root cause of us turning into monsters when we get behind the wheel? That's what I want to know.

People from other countries have noted that people from Melbourne are generally friendly - until we get into cars.

Phone use keeps coming up in this thread, why do people feel like using their phones while driving? There's probably a reason for it.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Phone use keeps coming up in this thread, why do people feel like using their phones while driving? There's probably a reason for it.

It is an addiction caused by social media and fear of missing out.

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-...-mental-health

Concurrent with Facebook’s meteoric expansion has been growing concern over the mental well-being of adolescents and young adults. According to data from the Centers for Disease Control, the suicide rate among 10- to 24-year-olds was stable from 2000 to 2007; it then increased 57% between 2007 and 2017.

...

“We were able to use the fact that Facebook rolled out at different universities at different times, together with the fact that we have this huge survey already conducted at universities, to understand the causal impact of Facebook on student mental health,” Makarin said.

Most broadly, the researchers found a sizable increase in the number of students who reported mental distress at some time in the preceding year. College-wide access to Facebook led to an increase in severe depression by 7% and anxiety disorder by 20%. Beyond these results, a greater percentage of the most susceptible students also treated symptoms with either psychotherapy or antidepressants. In total, the negative effect of Facebook on mental health appeared to be roughly 20% the magnitude of what is experienced by those who lose their job.

The researchers posit that social comparison with peers is behind those results, and it is an effect that appears to grow stronger as people are exposed to Facebook for greater lengths.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by prydey

Don't wind down your window though or the wind might blow your tin foil hat off

Like my toupee, I use a strap to keep it firmly in place.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Curious to compare 'per capita' stats - would cover exactly what you're saying.

Even then, cars are a lot safer in crashes now than 20 years ago, so if the death toll stays the same, cars are a lot better at protecting their occupants so its not ideal.

I did these a little while ago in another thread but here we go again for 2023.
Nationally, there were 4.7525 deaths per 100k of population up from 4.5898 in 2022 and 4.3721 in 2021 but half what it was at the start of the century when it was 9.575 and well down on the peak in 1970 of 30.3663.




The States are a a mixed bag.
Victoria recorded 4.345/100k in 2023, up substantially from 3.650 in 2022 but it was 8.652 in 2000 and peaked at 30.799 in 1970.
NSW recorded 4.209/100k in 2023, up substantially from 3.588 in 2022 but it was 9.354 in 2000 and peaked at 28.945 in 1970.
Queensland recorded 5.074/100k in 2023, down from 5.582 in 2022 but it was 9.033 in 2000 and peaked at 32.102 in 1972.
SA recorded 6.319/100k in 2023, up even more substantially from 3.898 in 2022 but it was 11.085 in 2000 and peaked at 30.901 in 1974. In fairness, the 2022 was the lowest on record and a better comparison is probably the 5.492 in 2021.
WA recorded 5.454/100k in 2023, down from 6.268 in 2022 and also creating a new record low. It was 11.336 in 2000 and peaked at 35.404 in 1970.
Tas recorded 5.936/100k in 2023, down from 8.931 in 2022 but it was 9.934 in 2000 and peaked at 33.316 in 1973.
ACT recorded 0.857/100k in 2023, down from 3.939 in 2022 and also creating a new record low. It was 5.628 in 2000 and peaked at 23.574 in 1970.
NT recorded 11.486/100k in 2023, down from 18.783 in 2022 and also creating a new record low even though it's more than most States were 20 years ago. It was 25.609 in 2000 and peaked at 68.914 in 1974.

[falcon_bandit]

If we talk about poor decision making whilst driving with today's general population, i honestly think there is some sort of retardation setting in (and the cause of that is a discussion on its own)

Here in Qld ive noticed a massive difference from, say, 5 years ago. Driving has always carried a certain amount of risk, & theres always been the odd incompetent driver u cross paths with .... BUT... now nearly every trip im having to drive ultra defensively with hyper focus, coming across crazies left right & centre, doing the most stupid sh**, feels like a jungle, driving has now become a gamble. My dashcam storage is full of people driving on the wrong side of the road, flying onto roundabouts at max speed, pulling out of intersections into oncoming traffic, stolen cars running red lights.... This is daily basis type stuff

A family member yesterday just had someone ram into their car IN REVERSE at a set of lights "because they wanted to get into the other lane". Even after viewing the dashcam footage im still at a loss for words. The towbar of the offending vehicle has snuck under the bullbar & tore up wiring & hoses etc. 🤦

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

I did these a little while ago in another thread but here we go again for 2023.
Nationally, there were 4.7525 deaths per 100k of population up from 4.5898 in 2022 and 4.3721 in 2021 but half what it was at the start of the century when it was 9.575 and well down on the peak in 1970 of 30.3663.

image


The States are a a mixed bag.
Victoria recorded 4.345/100k in 2023, up substantially from 3.650 in 2022 but it was 8.652 in 2000 and peaked at 30.799 in 1970.
NSW recorded 4.209/100k in 2023, up substantially from 3.588 in 2022 but it was 9.354 in 2000 and peaked at 28.945 in 1970.
Queensland recorded 5.074/100k in 2023, down from 5.582 in 2022 but it was 9.033 in 2000 and peaked at 32.102 in 1972.
SA recorded 6.319/100k in 2023, up even more substantially from 3.898 in 2022 but it was 11.085 in 2000 and peaked at 30.901 in 1974. In fairness, the 2022 was the lowest on record and a better comparison is probably the 5.492 in 2021.
WA recorded 5.454/100k in 2023, down from 6.268 in 2022 and also creating a new record low. It was 11.336 in 2000 and peaked at 35.404 in 1970.
Tas recorded 5.936/100k in 2023, down from 8.931 in 2022 but it was 9.934 in 2000 and peaked at 33.316 in 1973.
ACT recorded 0.857/100k in 2023, down from 3.939 in 2022 and also creating a new record low. It was 5.628 in 2000 and peaked at 23.574 in 1970.
NT recorded 11.486/100k in 2023, down from 18.783 in 2022 and also creating a new record low even though it's more than most States were 20 years ago. It was 25.609 in 2000 and peaked at 68.914 in 1974.

My interpretation of that is trend over long term is basically significantly down, so its all **** and wind when we come out and talk about road toll, the numbers are higher but taking into account population growth its basically negligible increase, except for on 2022.

Exception being Victoria and the past two years but its an outlier.

Its half of what it was in 2000, its argulable quality of drivers is down but cars have significantly increased safety wise since then and perform way better in crashes.

Be interesting to know the average age of the car parc in 2000 vs 2023 and that will give you hints.

Some of those states with the high figures in this day and age, demography and socioeconomic status of the state and its population would be interesting to overlay.

The more Franco's a state has the more deaths behind the wheel there's going to be

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My interpretation of that is trend over long term is basically significantly down, so its all **** and wind when we come out and talk about road toll,

Correct. When plotted on a graph the trend is down. There will always be ups and downs when looking at short term results but long term tells a more accurate story.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by falcon_bandit

If we talk about poor decision making whilst driving with today's general population,

There's probably studies out there by psychologists etc but there has been a shift in certain behaviours since covid.

Selfishness and 'every man for himself' traits are much more prevalent.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

There's probably studies out there by psychologists etc but there has been a shift in certain behaviours since covid.

Selfishness and 'every man for himself' traits are much more prevalent.

Melbourne roads are chaos but that might be more evident because I'm primarily driving around the northern suburbs where rules have always been optional and the infrastructure is crap compared to the immense population growth in these areas.

Emergency lanes are 500m long turning lanes, red lights and stop signs are optional.

On the way in, I can be at work in 45-50 minutes, on the way home its 1 hour 15 minimum.

The west is bad as well but mostly infrastructure wise - driving around Tarneit is ridiculous, it took 20 minutes to go from a housing estate to the freeway a few kilometers away.

On a good day, Ramy Najmeddine's weekday commute starts with a 20-minute wait just to get out of his housing estate in Melbourne's outer north.

That's frustrating enough — but once he's made it onto Donnybrook Road, he simply joins another queue.

Sometimes, it's so bad he has to wait for more than an hour to get from there onto the highway, where he joins a daily traffic jam of cars from neighbouring developments.

It's a frustration that's common across Melbourne's booming outer suburbs, where experts say growth is far outpacing infrastructure, especially when it comes to transport.

Pollsters say voters in the outer suburbs feel neglected because of a lack of services, an issue that may cost votes at this month's election.

Mr Najmeddine lives in Kalkallo, a suburb just off the Hume Freeway that was home to just 105 people in the 2016 census.

The population ballooned to 6,466 in 2021.

His estate, Cloverton, is home to more than 2,000 residents, and has one road in and out.

Construction on a second road started this week, and is due to be finished in mid-2024.

Locals say recently installed traffic lights to allow traffic on to Donnybrook Road do help, sometimes, and some have welcomed a promised slip lane, but many say the real issue is the traffic on Donnybrook Road itself.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-...urbs/101585202

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by whynot

It is an addiction caused by social media and fear of missing out.

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-...-mental-health

That's crazy. Have seen how intense the FOMO can get, sent pic of good waves to mate in his 30's on a private message app, he's noticeably agitated at missing out on them. Gotta be careful how good a pic you send, and balance that with the sharing of inspiring things.

Don't get me started on what happens when an influencer visits a favourite and out of the way beach...

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by prydey

There's probably studies out there by psychologists etc but there has been a shift in certain behaviours since covid.

Selfishness and 'every man for himself' traits are much more prevalent.

Would be fascinating to see some studies on this as have noticed it big time in myself.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I find attitudes on the road around Melbourne are significantly worse than other places I've driven.

Did an interstate trip for work recently (as in last weekend), was driving in both VIC and NSW, people in NSW are significantly more courteous on the road to other road users than Victorians, thats for sure.

.......

Especially worse when you go out to northern or western suburbs of Melbourne - I go out to die instead of pilot when I'm doing those runs.

The disease has spread to the east side now as well. Too many heroes who think they are superior to the next.

Mum is, what I would call, a naturally careful but nervous driver, and she now refuses to drive on freeways and after dark.

[falcon_bandit]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Would be fascinating to see some studies on this as have noticed it big time in myself.

I believe theres many factors involved. From medicine to diet, to environment, even society & its influences..... A bit of digging in each field uncovers alot of toxicity.

As for the sudden jump, articles like this seem to have the answer. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...iq-scores-are/

Simply replace the word "covid", with "jibby jab"

[Sprintey]

Yes I was thinking of the social aspect a bit more, like this

https://time.com/6099906/rude-customers-pandemic/

and maybe how the rudeness relates to driving and accidents.

but you raise a good point, the spike protein does tend to trash organs including the brain. Sorry if off topic.

[Citroënbender]

Brains are remarkably resilient and adaptable.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by prydey

Correct. When plotted on a graph the trend is down. There will always be ups and downs when looking at short term results but long term tells a more accurate story.

but sadly, as we see in the OP, the short term increases are what the press and the government fixate on :(

[prydey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

but sadly, as we see in the OP, the short term increases are what the press and the government fixate on :(

Journalism (I use the term loosely) is all about ratings these days. Who can create the most appealing headline to get the most attention.

Governments, state and federal, also rarely think long term. Everyone is only interested in their short term in office.

The problem is they rarely see that a large % of the population see right through them and treat everyone like idiots.

[Rallye Sport]

What a sensitive bunch we are, caring so much about the road toll.
Does anyone actually give a shit? Or are we just trying to win arguments on the interweb

[falcon_bandit]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Sorry if off topic.

Still relevant imo

Poor health can affect cognitive ability, moods & decision making etc.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

What a sensitive bunch we are, caring so much about the road toll.
Does anyone actually give a shit? Or are we just trying to win arguments on the interweb

I dunno about win but I'm pretty good at starting them

Though there's common ground in here amongst people who don't usually see eye to eye on much, which is a change.

Do I particularly care about the road toll? Not really, been on a downward trend for a very long time.

But we've got runs on the board for governing by news headline and news poll rather than legitimate issues, so you can be sure there's a shit sandwich for us to eat coming somewhere along the line.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

What a sensitive bunch we are, caring so much about the road toll.
Does anyone actually give a shit? Or are we just trying to win arguments on the interweb

Driver behaviour is the problem for me and others. The expected effort to conduct your journeys smoothly and efficiently is being overwhelmed by the effort to avoid not-at-fault damage, coupled with the travail of negotiating roads full of zombies and raging crew cab pilots.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

What a sensitive bunch we are, caring so much about the road toll.
Does anyone actually give a shit? Or are we just trying to win arguments on the interweb

what I care about, is the misrepresentation, and politicization of the issue. Road safety should be evidence based, not knee-jerk-political-points based

I have a background including industrial risk assessment. Frankly, if VicRoads and TAC were treated like a business, Worksafe would have a field day with their amateurism.

[CyberWasp]

I post these videos every time this topic comes up.
The road is full of idiots. You can not legislate against being an idiot.
Lower Speed Limits & Speed Cameras do not work as you can see by the video.

I really, really, really, really hate to say it, but maybe it is time to be able to be fined for running red lights and over taking in the wrong areas for example from the evidence of these videos.

There is a small group of drivers that think they don't have to follow the rules like everyone else and maybe this way will stop it.

I am sure there would be many fatalities caused by these idiots who cause an accident through their actions and drive off unharmed leaving the carnage behind them.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I dunno about win but I'm pretty good at starting them

Though there's common ground in here amongst people who don't usually see eye to eye on much, which is a change.

Do I particularly care about the road toll? Not really, been on a downward trend for a very long time.

But we've got runs on the board for governing by news headline and news poll rather than legitimate issues, so you can be sure there's a shit sandwich for us to eat coming somewhere along the line.

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Driver behaviour is the problem for me and others. The expected effort to conduct your journeys smoothly and efficiently is being overwhelmed by the effort to avoid not-at-fault damage, coupled with the travail of negotiating roads full of zombies and raging crew cab pilots.

Originally Posted by simon varley

what I care about, is the misrepresentation, and politicization of the issue. Road safety should be evidence based, not knee-jerk-political-points based

I have a background including industrial risk assessment. Frankly, if VicRoads and TAC were treated like a business, Worksafe would have a field day with their amateurism.

No mention of the actual human cost though.
Question answered.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

. I really, really, really, really hate to say it, but maybe it is time to be able to be fined for running red lights and over taking in the wrong areas for example from the evidence of these videos.

That was one of my points. If tamper-evident seals and electronic access “locks” can be applied to other types of equipment, why not also dash cameras?

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

No mention of the actual human cost though.
Question answered.

Any attempt to mandate empathy will fall on its face. I’d like to think that empathy might increase gently in response to more direct approaches to managing driver conduct.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

No mention of the actual human cost though.
Question answered.

Because its negligible as a representation of all Australians.

It gets a lot more resources dedicated to it than other issues which claim more lives in our society, disproportionately so.