Goodbye Holden Commodore?

[jpd80]

Look up GM Alpha RWD Platform, Cadillac ATS is slightly bigger than Holden Cruze
but will be expanded to make the new Cadillac CTS, so it's highly likely that Holden
will take an Alpha based large mis sized sedan that has I-4/V6/V8 power train.

I'm thinking that this is the vehicle Holden wants to replace Commodore, maybe before 2017/18..

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Look up GM Alpha RWD Platform, Cadillac ATS is slightly bigger than Holden Cruze
but will be expanded to make the new Cadillac CTS, so it's highly likely that Holden
will take an Alpha based large mis sized sedan that has I-4/V6/V8 power train.

I'm thinking that this is the vehicle Holden wants to replace Commodore, maybe before 2017/18..

Wouldnt be a bad thing.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Look up GM Alpha RWD Platform, Cadillac ATS is slightly bigger than Holden Cruze
but will be expanded to make the new Cadillac CTS, so it's highly likely that Holden
will take an Alpha based large mis sized sedan that has I-4/V6/V8 power train.

I'm thinking that this is the vehicle Holden wants to replace Commodore, maybe before 2017/18..

Wasnt there supposed to be a Pontiac version of Alpha? Meaning there is probably some scope to dumb it down to be cheap enough to be a family car.

I dont know, but Holden say they are going to have a 'big' announcement soon.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Wasnt there supposed to be a Pontiac version of Alpha? Meaning there is probably some scope to dumb it down to be cheap enough to be a family car.

I dont know, but Holden say they are going to have a 'big' announcement soon.

Dumb it down/
Alpha was supposed to be a Pontiac, then a Chevrolet, now a Cadillac.
A Holden?
Sure, why not......

[dylancox]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

why don't Ford build a Cortina, RWD with a 2.0L EcoBoost outputting 180kw and 350nm, with a tiny bit of brake regeneration just for elec power steer and aircon, doing 6.0L/100klms?

[Sprint XR8]

Commodore’s end in sight

The Holden Commodore is set to be replaced in five to six years but *parent company General Motors is upbeat on the prospect of it being succeeded by a “global” car that will secure the future of its local manufacturing operations.

The Shanghai-based president of GM’s international operations, Tim Lee, said that Holden was one of the “iconic car brands” of the world.

“I like the fact that we have *full-line capability in Australia with designing and engineering, building and selling vehicles,” Mr Lee told The Australian Financial Review in an exclusive interview. “We want to maintain that *capacity.”

The GM chief spoke after meeting Prime Minister Julia Gillard and other Labor ministers in *Canberra last week, along with *opposition MPs and business figures. His visit comes ahead of federal cabinet signing off on an industry assistance package, which industry figures have estimated could be around $100 million, to help secure a potential $400 million investment by GM next month.

Mr Lee said the Commodore had been the company’s strongest local seller for many years, but that Holden had to move with the “vehicle requirements and buying patterns of the 21st century”.

“It’s still an outstanding motor vehicle and one that we intend to produce for a long time,” he said. “But if you look at the motorway here in Melbourne, you see a lot of small cars. You see a lot of more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roads than Commodore.”

“The fundamental key in the car- building business is basically how you configure your body shop and if we want to have the opportunity for both domestic and consumption, as well as export potential, we need to build cars in Adelaide that are off the global *platforms of General Motors,” Mr Lee said.

“In the body shop the best way to do that is to have flexibility and to build two architectures and platforms. Maybe a mini car and a small car or maybe a small car and a compact car, or maybe a compact car and mid-sized car.”

The Gillard government has been under pressure to justify further support for the industry, particularly after GM reported a net profit of $US7.6 billion ($7.07 billion) last week.

The opposition is under fire over plans to cut $500 million from Labor’s decade-long $3.4 billion Automotive Transformation Scheme.

While in Melbourne, Mr Lee reviewed prototypes of the new Commodore, which will be released next year. The quietly spoken executive had good news for followers of the large sedan.

“We’re going to build a **** load more great Commodores,” he enthused. “We’re investing a huge amount in the next-generation Commodore.

“We’ve got Commodores that we’re building now and want to sell between now then . . . We’re not backing down from Commodore at all. It’s a great car.”

The model is expected to have a shelf life of about four to five years.

The key pitch from GM is that countries with car industries either have import tariffs and other barriers – which it is not seeking – or they make “co-investments” with the industry.

Mr Lee said the “new GM” operated differently and that all investments were judged in the “global landscape” after comparing the returns that could be made in other countries.

“If the public policy of Australia understands and comprehends the value of its manufacturing base, like most other major countries do, there are . . . various ways that countries encourage large multinationals to invest,” he said.

The car giants are shifting to global models because it spreads the development costs of new cars across as many vehicles as possible.

The last new-generation Commodore, the VE, took an *estimated $1 billion to develop. GM Holden can’t afford to do that any more given Australia has negligible import tariffs and more than 60 brands are competing in an annual new car market of 1 million vehicles.

Holden’s Adelaide assembly plant is making about 90,000 cars a year and the corporate strategy is that it needs to *produce cars from two architectures and platforms to be viable.

GMH now makes the six- and eight-cylinder Commodore at its Elizabeth plant along with the four-cylinder Cruze. They are among the top-five selling cars in Australia, but sales of the larger car are dropping while those of the smaller car are rising.

The two models are produced on the same assembly line but the outer panels are made in adjoining but separate workshops.

The Cruze is produced from the newer global Delta platform, which can be used for several different models. The Commodore uses the ageing Zeta platform, which never quite went global.

GM Holden’s chairman and managing director, Mike Devereux, said the company would be “dumb” not to keep building the Cruze when it was a “killer entry” in the country’s biggest car *segment, the C-size.

“The game is global and architecture has got to be global,” Mr Devereux said. “You have to be able to spread those extremely high development costs, not over tens of thousands of vehicles but hundreds of thousands of units.

“So we will definitely be plugging into the global architecture.”

Holden is playing the car industry’s usual game of cat-and-mouse over what car will eventually replace the Commodore. It even argues that a new car made from a global platform could be badged as a Commodore.

But the famous brand looks to be driving into the sunset in the medium term, as the Kingswood did in 1980.

http://afr.com/p/national/commodore_...MxFj3P9Bo90bzN

[ebxr8240]

Be like the FWD G6 in the states...

[burnz]

the omega platform based commo is going threw trials in two months

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

the omega platform based commo is going threw trials in two months

Omega?

Does this mean VF is getting very close?

[burnz]

november is the year model change if not delyed.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Omega?

Does this mean VF is getting very close?

Maybe in a couple of years, press are reporting VF mules are only just hitting the streets now which indicates the car is at least 12 months out.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Maybe in a couple of years, press are reporting VF mules are only just hitting the streets now which indicates the car is at least 12 months out.

Is this unprecedented for the life of a singular model in Australian history?

If VF comes out in 2013, VE would have been around for 7 years! NEVER has that occurred before. when I think of Ford models that lasted a while, you had the XF - from '84 - '88. But that pales in comparison to the life of the VE. And I remember quite clearly at the launch of the 'Billion Dollar Baby' that Holden said that complete model cycles (VT - VZ, AU - BF) will be reduced to 5 - 6 years, where the normal length was 10 years. I guess the GFC had something to say to that.

[prydey]

is there any reason to think ford and holden won't continue assembling cars here similar to what toyota do with camry. camry is a global car yet toyota still make it here. ford and holden could do the same. at least then you determine your own supply.

[fte50]

Having worked at GM Holden for 21yrs, i have no doubt this will be their final Australian built car 100%. Having said that the other 2 are in the same boat, with only Toyota in a position to secure a future.

What many folks outside the industry dont understand is there is no rivalry in this age between manufacturers meaning Holden vs Ford etc .
Holdens biggest threat are the other competing GM plants around the world trying to justify their business case over ours - with cheaper wages and less governance they always have advantage. Its the same with Ford & Toyota.

Statesman LWB has already been manufactured in Asia over a number of years for their local prominent market, and by now the quality levels are near as good to whats expected for global market.
The former Daewoo Co. was secured strategically for 1 purpose only - geographical location to supply the South East Asian rim including Australia and to capture a fairly new manufacturing plant that is open to further growth 'without complications'.

In contrast our local Plants must meet strict criteria - Whilst only 8 yrs old approx. Holdens V6 assembly plant in Fishermans Bend is designed to be packed up overnight and re-open as an Aldi store the week after, whereas its former plants were built for life - including its machine footings etc etc - yes building principals have changed but obviously so has the mandate as to how long they will need the plant for.

Anyhow the writing is on the wall and only a matter of time - the sad part is the fact that once gone its gone forever and with no demand the skill set is lost along with a growing number of supply industries that will fold overnight.
What will happen to GOOD workers/people that dont have education / mental capacity to work beyond factory level for eg.

On a + note though regardless of our depleted manufacturing industries and offshore relocations, we can aspire to a bright future selling fairyfloss to the Asian tourists - now thats a future growth industry that will save thousands of redundant workers. Simply our govts have allowed this to happen.
God help our nation.

[Torment47]

Just read this section - But if you look at the motorway here in Melbourne, you see a lot of small cars. You see a lot of more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roads than Commodore.”

That could be a big reason why , people can't afford to purchase them and maintain let alone spend 80-100 bux on fuel..

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Torment47

Just read this section - But if you look at the motorway here in Melbourne, you see a lot of small cars. You see a lot of more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roads than Commodore.”

That could be a big reason why , people can't afford to purchase them and maintain let alone spend 80-100 bux on fuel..

To the contrary, this is only a failure of the giants to not market their cars properly.
Where in the world do you get an average 1.8tonne family car seating 5 adults with luggage, world class performance vs capacity vs weight etc.
The journalists who have no concept of the motorcar are allowed to make unjustifiable economy claims without challenge.
In hindsight, our cars are very fuel efficient given their size, weight, power etc.

[Bossxr8]

Chevy Malibu platform it will be. Holden know Ford will be going FWD, and as soon as they do they will follow.

Gives credence to the story a few months ago of the Holden engineers union claims that VF will be the last locally engineered Holden. Funny how Holden denied it at the time but have basically now admitted it?

And that tool Paul Gover claimed it was rubbish .

He will probably come out now and call it an inspired move that's pure genius, and will secure Holdens future till next millenium.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Omega?

Does this mean VF is getting very close?

Omega platform was previous generation platform-
VE uses the Zeta platform and to suggest after its development cost, another substitute platform will replace it in VF is nonsence.

[bigwil]

Yes agree 100% Paul Gover is a tool

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And that tool Paul Gover claimed it was rubbish

I heard that Paul Gover is on life-watch at the moment...

But seriously, I think that this is hardly surprising.

Spending money on designing and engineering a car solely for a small market no longer makes sense.

To top that off, people are moving away from large cars.

It's smart business given the circumstances. I would have preferred to retain the all-Australian models but given the competition in the market, this is a necessary move.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by fte50

Omega platform was previous generation platform-
VE uses the Zeta platform and to suggest after its development cost, another substitute platform will replace it in VF is nonsence.

If you look above again, I think you'll find that jpd80 was questioning Burnz's mention of testing an "Omega" based Commo. We know it's a dfferent platform, but it's all greek to me.

[irish2]

Fuel economy can't be everyones sticking point. the biggest growing sector in Australia is the most fuel inefficient. This morning I was sitting on 105km/h in my G6E turbo and the instantaneous fuel use was reading 5.8l/100km's.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by fte50

Omega platform was previous generation platform-
VE uses the Zeta platform and to suggest after its development cost, another substitute platform will replace it in VF is nonsence.

I'm not, VF will be the last iteration of Zeta.

And, the previous platform was not Omega, it was V-Car.

Holden is looking at Alpha but that won't be happening at VF (not what I meant) But,
it could well happen about 3 years after VF and before Ford's next product cycle.

[Nic85]

The sooner GM/Ford make the hard decision to change Commodore/Falcon to "global" products, with better engines and tech to keep economy in check and the equipment levels high, the better.

To stay viable they need to do this quickly. I don't really think the Australian buying public will mind if Commodore/Falcon changed. If they can make the replacement cars around Mazda 3 size, with a range of engines and good equipment levels for the same sort of price, they'll be on a winner. It will keep jobs in Australia and make the local products viable going forward.

Originally Posted by irish2

Fuel economy can't be everyones sticking point. the biggest growing sector in Australia is the most fuel inefficient. This morning I was sitting on 105km/h in my G6E turbo and the instantaneous fuel use was reading 5.8l/100km's.

Big cars like the Falcon etc are generally quite good on fuel on a long, flat bit of road where torque and gearing come into play. Punt it up a few hills, do a few overtaking manouvers, and that 5.8 will become about 15. Constant 105km/h in my diesel ASX is about 4.2L/100km, or 28% better. But, punt it up some hills, overtake, sit in traffic etc and the worst it'll get to is about 6.8L/100km. This is what the locals need to look at going forward. Good combined figures.

[babyf6]

Originally Posted by bigwil

Yes agree 100% Paul Gover is a tool

Not the smartest one in the shed is he when it comes to cars,

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Nic85

The sooner GM/Ford make the hard decision to change Commodore/Falcon to "global" products, with better engines and tech to keep economy in check and the equipment levels high, the better..

Seriously, are you still driving a belmont or something of the like ???

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nic85

The sooner GM/Ford make the hard decision to change Commodore/Falcon to "global" products, with better engines and tech to keep economy in check and the equipment levels high, the better.

To stay viable they need to do this quickly. I don't really think the Australian buying public will mind if Commodore/Falcon changed. If they can make the replacement cars around Mazda 3 size, with a range of engines and good equipment levels for the same sort of price, they'll be on a winner. It will keep jobs in Australia and make the local products viable going forward.

Why the hell would they go Mazda 3 size, when they already have the Cruze and Focus. Do you think before you post?

Selling large cars gives them a market pretty much all to themselves, with very high profit margins compared to small cars. Switching to a small car would put them in a pool of sharks, multiple competitors and much smaller profit margins. There must be 20 or so small car alternatives on the market, its the most highly competitive and cost sensitive market there is.

Medium size is as small as they will go, Camry/Mondeo size. Less competition and much better profit margins.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nic85

The sooner GM/Ford make the hard decision to change Commodore/Falcon to "global" products, with better engines and tech to keep economy in check and the equipment levels high, the better.

There is this weird misconception that the Falcon range (G series and FPV) are totally lacking in equipment levels, engines and economy! It is getting rather monotonous and led by many (ignorance?) that might want heated door mirrors and heated seats but really ...... price for an XR6 against a Mazda 6 and bang for your buck .....? I know what I would be stepping into. Have had a couple of Euros, borrowed a few more expensive ones and really ..... these type of statements are getting very old now. The difference is not that large, especially when comparing a price.

GT 335 5.0 S'charged lacking in what engine department ..... I6 Turbo? I6 N/A? ECOBOOST?????? Happy with 14/100 out of a 300 odd K'watt car actually.

Next Falcon should be a Mazda 3 clone?????????? Shoot me now ..... please!

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by fte50

Seriously, are you still driving a belmont or something of the like ???

I had to actually Google "Belmont". Google seems to think it's an old Holden Kingswood type deal? I'll assume by your comment, that you think the current Commodore/Falcon cars have high equipment levels? You pay $85k for the top of the line FPV GT-P and get no Xenon headlights, no rain sensing wipers, no dusk sensing headlamps - things that aren't necessary, but things you get all the same in cars half the price. The reason I bring it up is to support my argument of "equipment levels".

[Bossxr8]

Can you take someone who claims the Hyundai Ix35 is a great car seriously?