FPV ups GS price, slashes F6 - Page 2

**Polyal** · 03-06-2011, 10:56 AM

I agree the F6 has been over priced...but people have short memories. The F6 saved FPV's backside while the 5.4 was around.

Yes the 5.4 sold ok, but since they are building performance cars it was the F6 and not the GT that actually keep FPV from being completely stuffed in the media.

I think its a good thing that the F6 has come down in price, making it the "entry" into high performance Falcons. It also rightly gives the perspective that the V8 is aspirational and an upgrade (regardless of straight line figures).

FPV have done SFA to the F6 in reality, so it deserves some respect and it is a car that has brought many people (including the XR6T) to the Ford brand.

If FPV's sales are up then thats great, they need them to be to get some of that $40m back, and if they want to skew or alter the sales so that it looks like the V8 is selling more then whatever.

Keeping in mind I hope FG2 brings the real results they deserve, because regardless of how good that V8 is HSV offer better value from a package perspective.

Rodge · 03-06-2011, 11:56 AM

Poyal - I don't think anyone would argue the F6 doesn't deserve respect, its a great car but what I don't get is that for more than 3 years they've done nothing to the engine apart from tweak it to meet Euro 4 and in the process burn more fuel, WTF ?

FPV reps told me at the launch of the SC range in November last year they had no plans for development of the F6. Not even an R Spec version with firmer handling for goodness sake !! Are we to believe they are going to run right through to 2015 with this engine and its current output, surely not ? Do they really imagine it will continue to sell well if they throw zero further developments funds at it or is it simply that they're currently tapped out ? Perhaps we'll see some further engine tweaking with FG2 ? I hope so, its a great engine and deserves some more resources directed its way.

Smoke Pursuit · 03-06-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Poyal - I don't think anyone would argue the F6 doesn't deserve respect, its a great car but what I don't get is that for more than 3 years they've done nothing to the engine apart from tweak it to meet Euro 4 and in the process burn more fuel, WTF ?

FPV reps told me at the launch of the SC range in November last year they had no plans for development of the F6. Not even an R Spec version with firmer handling for goodness sake !! Are we to believe they are going to run right through to 2015 with this engine and its current output, surely not ? Do they really imagine it will continue to sell well if they throw zero further developments funds at it or is it simply that they're currently tapped out ? Perhaps we'll see some further engine tweaking with FG2 ? I hope so, its a great engine and deserves some more resources directed its way.

Hello?? How long does Mercedes and BMW run performance models without tweaking?? Its about time Ford / Holden slowed down with upgrades and gave people a little more assurance with regard to what they are buying, no one likes buying a car thats superceeded within 12 - 18 months!!

The F6 will get upgrades with FG2 but I doubt anything will be done to the motor, and why should it, its still quicker then the V8.

**Polyal** · 03-06-2011, 12:19 PM

I agree there is not much more you need to do with the F6, whatever FG2 brings will be fine. But have you noticed how FPV does not go out of its way to promote it? FPV would rather have the V8 selling only IMO, but the I6T/F6 has a bit of a following now do it will be interesting to see how they go.

A R-Spec like the last "stig" BF version would be very nice.

Erko · 03-06-2011, 12:22 PM

If they are advertising 59.9k OTR then there will be deals to be done below that. I reckon mid 50's its a very good buy indeed. auto with teins, nice wheels and a tune and it will be perfect.

excopau · 03-06-2011, 05:15 PM

People have lost interest in F6 because v8 is new, wait a bit until they both are old and see how the sales go then. Id buy an F6 over the eight, if engine goes bang its cheaper, cheaper rego and insurance in qld.

fordv8! · 03-06-2011, 05:35 PM

Grate to see the v8 selling so well good to see fpv sales up also

Rodge · 03-06-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Hello?? How long does Mercedes and BMW run performance models without tweaking?? Its about time Ford / Holden slowed down with upgrades and gave people a little more assurance with regard to what they are buying, no one likes buying a car thats superceeded within 12 - 18 months!!

The F6 will get upgrades with FG2 but I doubt anything will be done to the motor, and why should it, its still quicker then the V8, in my opinion.

Fixed that for ya. The sales stat's, (V8 compared to F6) tell the real story. Nuff said.

Bossxr8 · 03-06-2011, 09:08 PM

Looks like their trying to clear any remaining stock/parts before the update.

Romulus · 03-06-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Fixed that for ya. The sales stat's, (V8 compared to F6) tell the real story. Nuff said.

No need to 'fix' his post, it's no secret the V8's have always outsold the I6T, some 2 to 1 from memory. I've had BF F6, BFII Super Pursuit and now FG F6. I buy what represents best value/performance for me, not what's quickest.

Having said that (and having owned a S/C V8) I'd only buy a non-intercooled S/C V8 if hell froze over. Just saying.

Racecraft · 03-06-2011, 09:28 PM

FPV the masters of robbing Peter to pay Paul....

How many HSV customers have come over with the new fangled s/c V8... probably a few... going by sales numbers not alot

Now how many red 'heads' have changed camps to the blue side due to the snail powered i6.... f'ing heaps.....

Personal criteria aside... sell/clearout FPV turbo cars @ a smaller profit ...... or sit and hope to make minimal sales of your over priced "hero" car

Whitey-AMG · 03-06-2011, 09:28 PM

So the F6 is cheaper , better equipped and still won't sell in volumes ???

if you're in the market for one this looks to be a sensational opportunity to pick up a damned good car.

Personally i'd still go the GS. There's just something very special about all V8's....especially a supercharged one.

mcnews · 03-06-2011, 10:05 PM

I think some of it also comes down to some people probably had to drive crapbox 4s and 6s in their youth etc. and always dreamed of having a V8, and now they can. Then there are some of us that never ever thought they would buy new cars after starting in V8s and owning V8s throughout their life almost exclusively (the only 6 I had was an E49 Charger), and now probably don't put all that much value on having 8 cylinders. Especially these nice, quiet, smooth running and fuel-efficient V8s. V8s are meant to have double-pumpers, huge cams and get 7mpg, lol. That's a real V8 :-)

AMGC63 · 03-06-2011, 10:33 PM

Bit hard to expect the F6 to sell when its bigger brothers have a better engine and they out gun it, id say the F6's days are numbered now.... FPV have said quite openly they wont be spending any more development money on the F6 engine.

flappist · 04-06-2011, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne351

Bit hard to expect the F6 to sell when its bigger brothers have a better engine and they out gun it, id say the F6's days are numbered now.... FPV have said quite openly they wont be spending any more development money on the F6 engine.

Why would you say that? The GT sold well when it was the slow model.

Oh, of course, The F6 does not have stripes........my mistake.....

**Dave R** · 04-06-2011, 04:16 AM

The GT has traditionally outsold the F6 at least two to one. Most HSV/FPV buyers are over 40 and simply want a V8 with no interest in the six at all. I remember many years back they were saying how hard it was to move F6s compared to GTs, even though the F6 demolished the GT in performance. How do you sell the idea of an I6T to someone who has grown up loving V8s? FPV's solution is to make it dirt cheap.

kpcart · 04-06-2011, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

I think some of it also comes down to some people probably had to drive crapbox 4s and 6s in their youth etc. and always dreamed of having a V8, and now they can. Then there are some of us that never ever thought they would buy new cars after starting in V8s and owning V8s throughout their life almost exclusively (the only 6 I had was an E49 Charger), and now probably don't put all that much value on having 8 cylinders. Especially these nice, quiet, smooth running and fuel-efficient V8s. V8s are meant to have double-pumpers, huge cams and get 7mpg, lol. That's a real V8 :-)

i dont agree with you about the "crapbox" 4s and 6s, most of them are better engines then most v8s, just smaller capacity. also i dont think the majority of people dream of owning a v8, infact a lot of people dream of owning a luxury car like a merc.

i think the reason the v8 is selling better then the turbo 6 is because of the type of buyer that buys a falcon performance car, it is usually a bogan, or someone that still believes in the muscle car hot rod culture from years gone by where cubic inches were king. they usually dont care how much fuel it uses, and want to have as many cylinders and litre capacity as possible, and frankly... overlook better cars! the i6 turbo was a much better engine then the boss v8, but the boss v8 still sold better because it had 2 more cylinders and had a more muscular sound.

Its a bit like people who buy harleys instead of every other motorcycle made, because they like the mucle sound, and the outlaw culture associated, even though harleys are practically and technologically inferior to most other motorcycles on the road and cost twice as much. do you know back in the 80s the US limited Japanese bikes to 700cc so that Harley Davidson would survive, and even with only 700cc they still made better and faster bikes. Yamaha had the midnight special XJ 700 with a boxer engine, it was a harley competitor for the US market, and made more power then any stock harley (even up to this day), and moved the bike from 0-100 in 3.5 seconds (faster then any harley even up to this day).

Only Problem it wasnt a harley.

Same goes for v8s and V8 falcons.

But if it wasnt for the crapbox 6s, you probably wouldnt have a hope of buying a v8 fpv anymore.

mcnews · 04-06-2011, 06:42 AM

Some good points there. Also, people follow V8 Supercars and barrack for their brand and somehow think the race cars have something to do with their brand...

Romulus · 04-06-2011, 09:23 AM

Well said kpcart. I aspire to own a AMG or BMW M, not a HSV or FPV

mcnews · 04-06-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

i dont agree with you about the "crapbox" 4s and 6s, most of them are better engines then most v8s, .

Not the crapbox 4s and 6s these guys would have had in their youth they are not.

flappist · 04-06-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The GT has traditionally outsold the F6 at least two to one. Most HSV/FPV buyers are over 40 and simply want a V8 with no interest in the six at all. I remember many years back they were saying how hard it was to move F6s compared to GTs, even though the F6 demolished the GT in performance. How do you sell the idea of an I6T to someone who has grown up loving V8s? FPV's solution is to make it dirt cheap.

Absolutely true.

The most common FPV is an absolutely basic GT with stripes.

No brake upgrade or any component or modification that would increase performance although often there are "bling" upgrades and other than the FPV day the car will never see a track or be driven over about 120km/h and often never driven more than 50km from the owners house.

They really are becoming the "Harley Davidson" of the motor enthusiast community.......

Whitey-AMG · 04-06-2011, 10:12 AM

I'd go out on a limb here and say that most purchases of these sorts of cars are just as much emotive as they are technical.

Sure the F6 has been quicker in a straight line for some time now....it doesn't make it an overall better car.....particularly on the street where you can only drive these things at 7/10ths anyways.

As much as FPV had banked on the F6......it really isn't an emotive type of ride. Sure there will be those that are 100% focused on which car offers better straight line speed , which car uses 2L per 100 less, don't like the war stripes etc etc.........the F6 is for you. Its a great car....no one is disputing.

At the end of the day however, there are many out there as well that also want their ride to be a part of their personality , to have a connection with something special from their youth, a car that exudes its own personality and looks unique. That car is not always the F6. I respect both the 6 and the 8. I think FPV did a stellar job with the 6 and a not too bad job with the 8 in the B series and FG. Now with MIAMI under the bonnet , the emotive has finally met with the technical.......there is a much smaller space left for the poor old F6. It hasn't been selling very well for years because it just doesn't hit the spot the same way. Its just like the HARLEY scenario mentioned previously.........sure there are HONDA R1's and HYABUSA's and other sports bikes that would wipe it.......but deep down, every one wants to be a BAD BOY and not a leathered up 5 foor tall Italian superbike champ........

As for the BOGAN factor for V8 buyers.......I'd say that is uninformed and adversarial. I'd correct that and say that the V8 buyer would be a more emotive and long term purchaser. Most of the FPV buyers I know have the GT/GTP and none of them would be classed as Flanny BOGANS. To be honest, I find its the F6 owners constantly justifying their purchase by denigrating the V8 product......always on the backfoot and ready to criticise the stripe package , or how the F6 is faster to the next set of lights or how the bonnet bulge obscures your line of sight......etc etc..

At the end of the day, you buy what makes you happy.......not what makes other people happy.......

People have been voting with their wallets for years and we have also seen that the coin doesn't always go to FPV. Many more have been buying the red product. Their marketing and product development guys have realised that at the end of the day, it really is the "OVERALL" package that wins the hearts and minds. The R8 and GTS product is a very well focused and executed product. FPV on the other hand have swayed between the F6 and the GT and consequently have divided their buying group to the point where we argue amongst ourselves and spend our cash on upgrades because neither product really fulfills the portfolio 100%. Meanwhile , the R8 and GTS buyers continue to trade and upgrade at an astonishing rate and HSV continue to up the ante with technology and overall package enhancements.

I do not consider myself a BOGAN.....far from it......but I do love driving the GT and really enjoy the experience every time. I would also enjoy owning an F6, no doubt.......but I would always be craving the V8. Our neighbout has just recently purchased the new 335GT and his sentiments are identical.....and he test drove both F6 and GT tirelessly....no bias.......both great.......but one gave him goose bumps and the other just rode the bumps.

With FPV - you need a wife and a mistress...........which is why we're always getting into trouble.....

HSV are basically offering Megan Gale......and she'll do EVERYTHING FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!

That's my 2c....and apologies in advance If I've offended anyone ......

mcnews · 04-06-2011, 02:37 PM

Some of that is true, although, personally I can't get emotive about an FPV or HSV, there are way too many of them and at the risk of offending, all base model taxis with bolt ons. Thus I don't get the emotion from them at all. They are too replaceable in an instant to register that with me. I have had show winning classic muscle cars, they feel special because they are largely irreplaceable these days, while modern Falcadores...

I do realise of course that I am in the minority amongst people on here of course, as you would expect, but for the vast majority of people they are just transport. Pretty quick transport, but just transport all the same.

As for FPV banking on the F6, I don't think they have been to be honest, they have never really backed it or promoted it and even when it vastly overshadowed all the modern GTs up to this present latest iteration, they still undersold it. What that product do though was getting someone like myself actually interested in new cars, something I thought I would never do. Buying a brand new Falcon was a proposition that had never entered my thought space before Ford turbocharged the Falcon and ushered in a new era of affordable, powerful and relatively economical motoring.

But for sure, everyone's different, be a boring world if we were all the same.

**Dave R** · 04-06-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

also i dont think the majority of people dream of owning a v8, infact a lot of people dream of owning a luxury car like a merc.

You would be surprised at how many people opt for a locally made V8 even though they can afford alot more. Have a browse of the Holden LS1 forums and see the sheer amount of C63 owners on there who previously stuck to HSVs - these people are after the V8, not specifically luxury.

Rodge · 04-06-2011, 05:04 PM

I believe the reason SC V8 sales are now caning F6 sales by something like 4:1 vs the previous 2:1 is there's lot of enthusiasts out there like me that weren't happy with the excessive weight of the old cast iron V8 which lets be honest does have quite an impact on handling, that and the F6 caned the previous V8 for performance, so those punters who wanted serious performance and good handling have been driving their F6 quietly biding their time and now they're coming out of their shells craving a proper sounding muscle car, simple as that. Most buyers are over 40 and have always associated muscle with V8 and many like me have harboured the desire to own a real muscle car and the fact that its supercharged is the icing on the cake, (and I mean no offence to the F6 but it simply doesn't have the real muscle car sound and nothing can be done to fix that).

Now we have a car that matches the F6 for handling, has more power and torque and the power is beautifully linear and progressive, zero tubo lag issues and then there's that wonderful bombastic sound, who wants an F6 unless its cheaper than the SC V8 ? Clearly FPV realise this now and that the F6 deserves to be priced where it is at this new level, its a good move by FPV, (they recovered their very modest development cost on the warmed up XR6T + decent brakes long ago), and I see this as being a permanent price shift. Its good for the brand overall.

Smoke Pursuit · 04-06-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

I believe the reason SC V8 sales are now caning F6 sales by something like 4:1 vs the previous 2:1 is there's lot of enthusiasts ou there that weren't happy with the excessive weight of the old cast iron V8 which lets be honest does have quite an impact on handling, that and the F6 caned it for performance, so those punters who wanted serious performance and good handling have been driving their F6 quietly biding their time and now they're coming out of their sheels craving a proper sounding muscle car, simple as that. Most buyers are over 40 and have always associated muscle with V8 and many like me have harboured the desire to own a real muscle car and the fact that its supercharged is the icing on the cake, (and I mean no offence to the F6 but it simply doesn't have the real muscle car sound).

Now we have a car that matches the F6 for handling, has more power and torque and the power is beautifully linear and progressive, zero tubo lag issues and then there's that wonderful bombastic sound, who wants an F6 unless its cheaper than the SC V8 ? Clearly FPV realise this now and that the F6 deserves to be priced where it is at this new level, its a good move by FPV, (they recovered their very modest development cost on this warmed up XR6T long ago), and I see this as being a permanent price shift.

Lol.... You do know the F6 is still quicker don't you Rodger?

You do know that FPV has reduced the allocations on F6 in the last 6 months to try and push the V8 don't you? I've said it once, ill say it again. FPV are fudging the figures through limiting build on F6...

The price is a geniune RUNOUT price to move old stock.. Its retail price is unchanged. GT pricing has also been adjusted with more dealer incentive, but they havent been publically marketing that. Once FG2 comes out the F6 price will go back to retail.

You definately like to swing don't you.

Rodge · 04-06-2011, 05:15 PM

Dash in your mind perhaps, I know that they havn't been building F6's but its not some attempt to fudge the figures as you suggest, its simply matching a finite amount of production capacity with where the real damand lies.

We will see regarding the price, yes they're saying its a limited time opportunity e.t.c. I think it'll be sticky.

Quite right I'm in the fortunate position of having had both and can see both sides of the fence and I don't miss my FG F6 at all.

Smoke Pursuit · 04-06-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Dash, I know that they havn't been building F6's but its not some attempt to fudge the figures as you suggest, its simply matching limited production capacity with where the real damand lies.

We will see regarding the price, yes they're saying its a limited time opportunity e.t.c. I think it'll be sticky.

Quite right I'm in the fortunate position of having had both and can see both sides of the fence and I don't miss my FG F6 at all.

Really?? Well I actually have a credible source that suggests that they limited F6 build to try and pump V8 sales...

As per why theres very little 2011 F6 stock available.

When I bought my FG GT back in 2009 I bought it brand new for $58,990 too! Did that stick? F6's were only a few grand more at the time too, and when Euro 3 Runout was on they were mid $50,000... Discounting happens all the time, I'm sure they will be discounting FG1 335 GT / GT-P / GT-E shortly when FG2 gets closer.

The sales figures are fudged too.. Look at all the dealer demos floating around registered but unsold.. Dealers were told to register V8 demos!! Lol.

**Dave R** · 04-06-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

The sales figures are fudged too.. Look at all the dealer demos floating around registered but unsold.. Dealers were told to register V8 demos!! Lol.

Good point!

Rodge · 04-06-2011, 05:30 PM

There's an abundent supply of F6's over here they can't sell, even Euro 3's still hanging around !! Perhaps you guys would like some back

I'd suggest the reason they havn't wanted to build 2011 F6's is because there's so many unsold 2010 ones !!, why else would they now be moving to clear these unsold vehicles that have been hanging around for so long ?

Of course we will see discounting of all FG1 vehicles in due course

, like that's not a given.

There's a really big difference between your old, heavy and materially slower V8 and the new SC cars, some people for reasons best known to them seem to be in denial about that.

Look its obvious I think my new GT-P is a much better car than my previous FG F6 and you don't agree, I paid $31,000 to change...ya think I would have done that if I wasn't thoroughly convinced it was worth it ?