Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV impressions

[DFB FGXR6]

Remember Ford were selling the most fuel efficient new car on the market just a couple of years ago.....the Fiesta ECOnetic.......and it sold 2 5ths of bugger all.

The problem with "Eco" cars is that apart from the few that are willing to give them a go like the OP, Aussies are reluctant to spend over and above a "normal" car and Australia doesn't subsidise fuel efficient/electric cars like other countries. Hence why Ford sells hybrids in other countries and not in Australia

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Remember Ford were selling the most fuel efficient new car on the market just a couple of years ago.....the Fiesta ECOnetic.......and it sold 2 5ths of bugger all.

The problem with "Eco" cars is that apart from the few that are willing to give them a go like the OP, Aussies are reluctant to spend over and above a "normal" car and Australia doesn't subsidise fuel efficient/electric cars like other countries. Hence why Ford sells hybrids in other countries and not in Australia

Fair call. I think in Oz we suffer from too many options.....And options like this new Mitsi are priced alot higher than the standard cars.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by lamborghinifan

So with an average of about say 20kWh/100 this would roughly equate to about $6 bucks a 100km in recharge costs (using approx 30c/kWh)?

Correct. But, in my case I am charging it off peak at 20c/kWh. If I had Time of Use, I could get it for around 15c/kWh

Originally Posted by lamborghinifan

Enough to justify the outright cost of vehicle?

No. However, depending on driving circumstances, it can be closer that you think.

To get to work I need around 4kWh. At off peak prices, this costs me around 80 cents in electricity. Plus, I also need around 120ml of petrol to climb a few hills. This cost me around 16.4 cents. Total 96.44 cents (with some rounding errors).

To get to work in the diesel Territory is needed 2 litres of diesel (in bumper to bumper traffic). At today's cost that is around 308 cents.

If I travel 15,000 km per year, the PHEV would go through $723 in "energy" and the Territory would go through $2,300 in "energy". The difference is around $1,586. The list price for the PHEV is around $8,600 over the petrol version. So, by my rubbery calculations, the payback period is 5.4 years. (Of course, this ignores the additional capital costs on the PHEV and it also ignores any potential loss/gain on resale.) It also ignores that when the PHEV runs out of battery, it just turns into another regular SUV with fuel consumption around 6-7l/100km.

Of course, an oil price spike tilts the calculations in favour of the PHEV, and an electricity price spilk tilts the calculations in favour of ICE.

At presently, I am yet to make it home on battery (I am spending my lunch hour doing demos for fellow office workers, buring battery juice for them.) However, I think I could just get home with only a little additional fuel.

Originally Posted by lamborghinifan

Would be good to see theme beginning to make provision for this tech.

A little birdy told me that some utilities are giving such an option very serious thought.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by EF_6

And options like this new Mitsi are priced alot higher than the standard cars.

A Territory AWD Titanium is currently listed at $53,985 drive away on carsales. A PHEV Aspire AWD is currently listed $54,990 from the dealer. The Territory has refinement to burn and is a great highway vehicle. The PHEV has additional safety features like Active Cruise Control and Forward Collision Avoidance.

And, yes, Ford in the USA are certainly leaders in the development of hybrid technology. Hopefully, we might see some of that technology in Oz soon.

[GASWAGON]

O.k great. What does the PH stand for in this model car?

[The Yeti]

Plug In hybrid

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by EF_6

O.k great. What does the PH stand for in this model car?

Plug in Hybrid.

[GASWAGON]

O.k Thanks fellla's.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Actually doesn't Ford US sell nearly as much hybrids as Toyota in the US?

Actually the sell more hybrids than Toyota do in the US.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...id-models.html

Originally Posted by EF_6

Just another nail in the coffin for FordAu then!

Hardly.

[Windsor220]

As emission restrictions get worse EVs will start to become more common. Mitsubishi is taking the punt now and releasing it across the range over the next year or 2 as they dont want to spend the money on their petrol engines. Its a risky move but they still have diesel too.

[Martyvan]

Great write up!! One question... can you take it off road? What restrictions are there(apart from electrical range)? I know the standard outlanders are handy on the beach?

[csv8]

Description
Everyone who has a Recreational Vehicle has had the problem of connecting their power cable to a normal household powerpoint. This device is the first legal and safe way to do it that we are aware of. You plug the 10amp plug into a 10amp powerpoint and the 15amp socket fits your power inlet. This will allow you to use your lights and any appliances upto the 10amp level. If you exceed the limit it cuts out and can be reset.

Features
Rugged water resistant design for outdoor use and travel
Safely connect your 15amp device, e.g. caravan, to domestic outlets
Overload & Earth leakage (RCD) protection
Cleat to secure outlet lead from accidental disconnections
1.8m connection lead
Flip out hook for hanging
Clear lids for easy inspection
Owned and made in Australia
Designed for Australian conditions
Specifications
Includes overload protection to 10amps
Includes Residual Current Device (RCD)
Suits 9mm dia extensions cords. Larger dia will require some filing of plastic.
Warranty

All products from Caravans Plus come with a guarantee.

This one comes with a 12 months manufacturer's warranty.
http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/p...oducts_id=8993

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

Great write up!! One question... can you take it off road? What restrictions are there(apart from electrical range)? I know the standard outlanders are handy on the beach?

Yes. The restrictions are that it is around 30mm lower than a standard Outlander. Even though there is a bash plate over the battery, I would certainly avoid stranding it on its belly.

But, in practice the AWD is more about getting through a muddy paddock or through the snow/ice. The AWD can be locked via a button in the center console.

Here is some video of the PHEV in a rally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRsBqa6aoo

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yes. The restrictions are that it is around 30mm lower than a standard Outlander. Even though there is a bash plate over the battery, I would certainly avoid stranding it on its belly.

But, in practice the AWD is more about getting through a muddy paddock or through the snow/ice. The AWD can be locked via a button in the center console.

Here is some video of the PHEV in a rally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRsBqa6aoo

Thanks. I look forward to getting updates over time on your entire ownership experience

[Franco Cozzo]

Is there any way you can turn up the volts to get her to haul ***? I saw a YouTube video of someone with a Chevy Volt who got a 5.5 second 0-100 out of it with software change to send more power to the electric motor lol.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

Great write up!! One question... can you take it off road? What restrictions are there(apart from electrical range)? I know the standard outlanders are handy on the beach?

Just a bit off topic here but Land Rover have their full electric 4WD (Defender) that can go offroad and in water. Handles it pretty well from all reports.
Surprised me a bit.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Actually the sell more hybrids than Toyota do in the US.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...id-models.html


Hardly.

I read that article and the way I read it is that the combined sales of Fusion and Hybrid models outsell Toyota hybrids.

Not all fusion models are hybrids...so hard to see the real number.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Is there any way you can turn up the volts to get her to haul ***? I saw a YouTube video of someone with a Chevy Volt who got a 5.5 second 0-100 out of it with software change to send more power to the electric motor lol.

Well, it would be beyond me, but I suspect that some smart kids will have no troubles. Interestingly, the battery has a peak power output of 60kW and the ICE nearly 90kW. The two working in tandem is nearly 150kW, well above the nominal 120kW (60 front + 60 rear) of the electric motors. I suspect that the power limits is both conservative (for long life) and limited by software. Being a Li battery, it could easily pump out more power. With just some work on the software, 200kW and a sub 16 second quarter is not out of the question.

[outback_ute]

Thanks for posting your impressions of the new vehicle whynot, very interesting to read 'real world' info.

Originally Posted by zilo

I read that article and the way I read it is that the combined sales of Fusion and Hybrid models outsell Toyota hybrids.

Not all fusion models are hybrids...so hard to see the real number.

The article says 80,000 Ford hybrid sales, another Bloomberg article (link) said Toyota sold 234,228 Prius in the USA last year, with just under 70k in California alone.

I think the situation is that Toyota sell more Prius' than every other makers' hybrid sales combined, whereas that article is saying Ford sells more Fords than Toyota sells Toyotas as brands (ie not Lincoln, Scion etc)

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by whynot

Well, it would be beyond me, but I suspect that some smart kids will have no troubles. Interestingly, the battery has a peak power output of 60kW and the ICE nearly 90kW. The two working in tandem is nearly 150kW, well above the nominal 120kW (60 front + 60 rear) of the electric motors. I suspect that the power limits is both conservative (for long life) and limited by software. Being a Li battery, it could easily pump out more power. With just some work on the software, 200kW and a sub 16 second quarter is not out of the question.

Have mistubishi said anything on the volatility of the Li battery packs? I had some RC Li battery packs that busted on on little impacts. Probably perfected the safeguarding of the technology by now i guess. That would also save a bundle of weight!

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Just a bit off topic here but Land Rover have their full electric 4WD (Defender) that can go offroad and in water. Handles it pretty well from all reports.
Surprised me a bit.

Although OT that would really intrigue me... how cool would that be sneaking through the bush.... ;)

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by csv8

Description
Everyone who has a Recreational Vehicle has had the problem of connecting their power cable to a normal household powerpoint. This device is the first legal and safe way to do it that we are aware of. You plug the 10amp plug into a 10amp powerpoint and the 15amp socket fits your power inlet. This will allow you to use your lights and any appliances upto the 10amp level. If you exceed the limit it cuts out and can be reset.

Features
Rugged water resistant design for outdoor use and travel
Safely connect your 15amp device, e.g. caravan, to domestic outlets
Overload & Earth leakage (RCD) protection
Cleat to secure outlet lead from accidental disconnections
1.8m connection lead
Flip out hook for hanging
Clear lids for easy inspection
Owned and made in Australia
Designed for Australian conditions
Specifications
Includes overload protection to 10amps
Includes Residual Current Device (RCD)
Suits 9mm dia extensions cords. Larger dia will require some filing of plastic.
Warranty

All products from Caravans Plus come with a guarantee.

This one comes with a 12 months manufacturer's warranty.
http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/p...oducts_id=8993

I have one of those, used it for my ambo which had a 15A power input on it, but I didnt have any 15A power points at home.

[Crazy Dazz]

What I can never understand is why hybrids always seem to use petrol engines, rather than diesel?

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

What I can never understand is why hybrids always seem to use petrol engines, rather than diesel?

Diesel engines cost more to manufacture so it would bump the price of an already expensive Hybrid up even more so.

A few years ago KIA designed an LPG hybrid small car.

Here check this out.

http://www.myperfectautomobile.com/k...-hybrid-3.html

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

What I can never understand is why hybrids always seem to use petrol engines, rather than diesel?

It is a whole of life cost calculation. While technically possible, the higher capital cost and weight penalty of a diesel+battery cannot overcome its better fuel efficiency of a petrol+battery.

[whynot]

So, one week of ownership with the PHEV and it has been an interesting week playing with the technology.

Fuel economy keeps improving. One day during the week, I made it to and from work (round trip of 40km) on just 80ml of fuel, and 10kWh of electricity. That 80ml was for just one burst up a hill that is too steep for the battery to take on by itself from a standing start. If this was the only daily drive the PHEV ever did it would have a fuel economy of just 0.2l/100km, well inside the projected 1.8l/100km. Battery range has improved as well, from 33km on the first morning to 52km today.

A little trick I have picked up is that heating (and air conditioning) is a big range killer. Turning on the climate control can easily wipe 10-15 km off the battery range. When temperatures are above 5C, the PHEV provides cabin heat by using electricity out of the battery to an electric hot water element in the HVAC. However, the PHEV also has an iPhone/Android app that one can use to pre-set a timer to turn on the HVAC for ten minutes. When the PHEV is plugged into the wall, it is using 240V mains power to heat the cabin, and this saves battery capacity at the start of the journey.

One of the mornings this week was around 3C, with local frosts. Upon “starting” the PHEV the petrol engine bust into life and kept running for the first five kilometres or so until it had warmed

Also during the week, the PHEV went on a short (170km) highway trip, including some 110kmh work. On the way up, the PHEV was in “battery save” mode. The fuel consumption on this leg was 6.9l/100km, about the same as I would expect from my previous G6E or the diesel Territory. On the way back, I let it drain the last 40% from the battery and the fuel consumption dropped to 6.4l/100km. The interaction between the engine, battery, and electric motors is interesting. While there is juice left, the PHEV is quite happy to run on battery, drawing about 20-25kW of power. As the battery runs down, the ICE kicks in and initially applies charge to the battery. A few seconds later, the display indicates that the ICE is electrically powering the front wheels, charging the battery, and the battery is powering the rear wheels. If for any reasons the Adaptive Cruise Control ACC backs off (or one fits their foot off the throttle), the ICE shuts down and leaves it to the battery to keep things ticking over. If there is a slight downhill run, the ACC holds a tight limit on the speed and soaks up charge via regenerative braking. The only way I could tell if the engine was running or not was via the display, otherwise it was indistinguishable over the road and wind noise.

Rather than looking at the PHEV as an electric car with a range extender petrol engine, I think a better way of looking at the PHEV is a petrol powered car with a range extender battery bank. If your trips are short enough and 240V mains is available, one can “range extend” on the battery. Depending on how I go, it could be literally months before I see a petrol bowser again.

Here I must be blunt and state that the vehicle dynamics of the PHEV does not have the refinement and drivability of the Territory. The Mitsubishi Outlander is certainly better that that pussbox 2010 Subaru Forrester I once had. In favour of the PHEV and unlike the Territory, it has a cruise control that holds a set speed when running downhill. The ACC generally works well. After some fiddling, I have left it on the “closest following” setting, which appears to be just over two seconds. However, ACC has its flaws. This is not a criticism of the PHEV ACC as much as ACC in general, but your drivetrain does becomes hostage to the right foot of the leading vehicle. At one stage, I was following a drive who speed oscillated between 85 and 95 kms. You know the type, wandering left to right, cannot hold a steady speed. The PHEV so faithfully followed this cycle of slowing down and speeding up that I was seasick after ten minutes. ACC also relies on the driver in front “reading” the traffic. At times, it was ploughing along at the set distance where my eyes watching what was happening down the road would have made me lift my foot off the throttle (and actually I disengaged the ACC).

The sound system in the Outlander Aspire PHEV is better that the “Premium” sound system in the Territory (not had to achieve). But the integrated GPS in the Aspire is a disappointment. After a week, I have gone back to my voice activated Garmin.

This afternoon, one the way home and stuck in traffic, picking goobers out of my nose, I was asking myself the rhetorical question of “what is the most annoying thing about the PHEV”? It struck me that the most annoying thing was all of the other noisy cars and motorbikes that I share the road with. Driving an EV brings a new world of refinement and quietness. While most focus on electric vehicles from a reduction in exhaust pollution, I think one of the biggest benefits for those who live near main roads will be a general reduction in noise pollution.

[GASWAGON]

Sounds good to me whynot.

Just one thing though....If you travel mostly 'on battery' ..wot will happen to the petrol in the tank....Will it go off and go stale like wot happens with LPG cars???

[whynot]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Sounds good to me whynot.

Just one thing though....If you travel mostly 'on battery' ..wot will happen to the petrol in the tank....Will it go off and go stale like wot happens with LPG cars???

Yes the fuel could go stale, but the onboard electronics will not let that happen. If there is no fuel addition within six months, the petrol engine turns on and keeps running until the tank is drained. Sort of force the driver to add fresh fuel from time to time.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

Although OT that would really intrigue me... how cool would that be sneaking through the bush.... ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijsZcRYt-Lc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFxiDQH3TA

[mik]

Good write up whynot, if I might ask , what would be the cost difference between a territory and a the mitsu in outright purchase price? Everyone has different reasons for purchasing a vehicle, im just thinking from a purely cost perspective, do you think with all things taken into consideration, out right costs , long term maintenance would it be cheaper in the long run.