VFacts November 2023

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

and yet Tesla don't seem to have any problems selling the large sedans.

Haven't they dropped the Model S in Australia?

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I'd love to see those rules tightened up and enforced. The impact would be very interesting.

old news was changed in July by Albo gov
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...s-been-slashed
and the ATO is cracking down on small business who has been abusing the system
https://www.9news.com.au/national/at...d-a6a139d8216d

Nothing new here to me - you'd be silly if you didn't look to reduce tax's being your paying so much in other parts of your business that eat into profits.
Works both ways.
If it not this was another hole another decade, what goes around comes around.
Worry about corporates more than small business fellas.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Haven't they dropped the Model S in Australia?

Wouldn't know, just keep seeing them everywhere around here.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Wouldn't know, just keep seeing them everywhere around here.

Model 3

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That 7:30 Report I linked to mentioned exactly that, the sales of Thailand Specials skyrocketed not long after their introduction.

The Australian tax payer subsidized Thailand's manufacturing industry at the cost of our own, great work.

There is peridentist clinic near me. One of the employees or owners has a Hilux new 2.8 d4d 4wd dual cab.
I see it there every day I go to catch a bus nearby.
That car has or looks as if it’s never been off road and is just used as a commuter vehicle.
There would no doubt be a raft of tax benefits associated with this vehicle.
There’s no doubt a different more fuel efficient lower cost could be a one person commuter vehicle but the dual cab seemingly attracts more tax benefits
Nuts

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Model 3

Thanks Fordman, had to google it. Yep that's it, isn't that a popular sedan that Aussies don't want ??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Thanks Fordman, had to google it. Yep that's it, isn't that a popular sedan that Aussies don't want ??

If anything, the Y has replaced and exceeded 3 sales in Australia
Actually, the same thing has happened in China, North America and Europe

It seems that a lot of sedan buyers have either exited the market
or are now buying Utes or SUVs. Less and less car sales each year is more a sign that buyers are embracing the higher seat position and who can blame them.

[roKWiz]

Even the Y looks like a bloated sedan.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Nothing new here to me - you'd be silly if you didn't look to reduce tax's being your paying so much in other parts of your business that eat into profits.
Works both ways.
If it not this was another hole another decade, what goes around comes around.
Worry about corporates more than small business fellas.

eh, dubious at best as a "business vehicle."
Nah, let the ATO sort them out. Then we'll see how many are really business vehicles and how many legit ABNs.
You do realise ATO can do two things at once

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Damn quote function not working again!

1. Ford Ranger: 6301
2. Toyota HiLux: 5901
3. Isuzu D-Max: 3692
4. Tesla Model Y: 3151
5. Toyota Prado: 3090
6. Toyota RAV4: 2449
7. Mitsubishi Outlander: 2381
8. Mazda CX-5: 2256
9. MG ZS: 2047
10. Toyota Corolla: 1976
11. Hyundai Tucson: 1899
12. Mitsubishi Triton: 1687
13. Hyundai i30: 1,566
Kia Sportage: 1,559
14. Mazda BT-50: 1511
15. Subaru Forester: 1470
16. Toyota Landcruiser Wagon: 1458
17. Ford Everest: 1389
18. Nissan X-Trail: 1361
19. Hyundai Kona: 1332
20. Toyota Camry: 1214
21. MG 3: 1205
22. Mazda CX-3: 1200
23. Isuzu Ute MU-X: 1161
24. Nissan Navara: 1125

There is not one car in the list that I would buy to replace my FG X.

I feel ya. For Terry replacement if I want a big wagon with a petrol 6 it's the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. Then further up the $$$, the handling SUV would be a petrol X5 or F-Pace. Each lots more moolah than the circa $44K start on an AWD petrol Territory.



I found somewhat of an automotive goodie this month. Instead of paying the rip for new Tojo hybrid SUVs that are in stock, you can have the hybrid with the wagon and pay less as a whole heap of near-new Jap imports are now approved:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...22589752/?Cr=7

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...16098264/?Cr=3

You can even get AWD versions with that dubious electric motor in the back that doesn't really engage when you launch on snow or ice (also on the SUVs lol), but it's the thought that counts...

[olds]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Damn quote function not working again!

1. Ford Ranger: 6301
2. Toyota HiLux: 5901
3. Isuzu D-Max: 3692
4. Tesla Model Y: 3151
5. Toyota Prado: 3090
6. Toyota RAV4: 2449
7. Mitsubishi Outlander: 2381
8. Mazda CX-5: 2256
9. MG ZS: 2047
10. Toyota Corolla: 1976
11. Hyundai Tucson: 1899
12. Mitsubishi Triton: 1687
13. Hyundai i30: 1,566
Kia Sportage: 1,559
14. Mazda BT-50: 1511
15. Subaru Forester: 1470
16. Toyota Landcruiser Wagon: 1458
17. Ford Everest: 1389
18. Nissan X-Trail: 1361
19. Hyundai Kona: 1332
20. Toyota Camry: 1214
21. MG 3: 1205
22. Mazda CX-3: 1200
23. Isuzu Ute MU-X: 1161
24. Nissan Navara: 1125

There is not one car in the list that I would buy to replace my FG X.

There is not one car you would want from this list that is not better than a FG ?
Wow.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by olds

There is not one car you would want from this list that is not better than a FG ?
Wow.

I couldn't believe it either, I thought the MG3 was the best car on that list

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I feel ya. For Terry replacement if I want a big wagon with a petrol 6 it's the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. Then further up the $$$, the handling SUV would be a petrol X5 or F-Pace. Each lots more moolah than the circa $44K start on an AWD petrol Territory.

Mazda's new CX60 and CX90 are RWD drive platforms, even better they come with an inline 6.

So, how many of those who have long pined for a Territory replacement are going to buy the Mazda now?

https://www.mazda.com.au/cars/cx-60/
https://www.mazda.com.au/cars/cx-90/

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GT1533

I don’t agree. The incentive of FBT rules on Thai specials (and non-enforcement by the ATO) has created huge distortion in the market.


.

That's speculation and assumption.

I'll admit the dual cabs might not be the top selling but its my opinion they would still sell in better numbers than what they've replaced.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

That's speculation and assumption.

I'll admit the dual cabs might not be the top selling but its my opinion they would still sell in better numbers than what they've replaced.

Yes, 'speculation' and 'assumption' which is why this year the ATO has been warning everyone that they're cracking down on it.

Its obviously so wide spread that the ATO has finally decided to cotton on to the scam.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GT1533

I don’t agree. The incentive of FBT rules on Thai specials (and non-enforcement by the ATO) has created huge distortion in the market.


.

Further to this, my comments about incentives was regarding manufacturers forcing buyers to buy cars they didn't want. My point stands, the consumer is king. If they don't want the product it will eventually get culled.

Govt incentives is a different conversation.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Further to this, my comments about incentives was regarding manufacturers forcing buyers to buy cars they didn't want. My point stands, the consumer is king. If they don't want the product it will eventually get culled.

Govt incentives is a different conversation.

They're not forcing it, but people are being heavily incentivised/subsidised to purchase these vehicles, its not a free market so your point is invalid. You can't have this conversation without acknowledging there is government interference in the market which is driving purchasing decisions.

If they cop LCT and start paying taxes on them, and the price further increases, do you think they'll go the Thailand Special, or are they going to move to SUVs?

Or even better still, fuel efficiency standards get introduced, or the government does what China does and increases registration costs on cars with internal combustion engines and makes it free for EVs - watch how quick people change their buying habits.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by olds

There is not one car you would want from this list that is not better than a FG ?
Wow.

None of the cars on the list have more enthusiast appeal than even a base Falcon.

Where’s the appeal of a Recirculux that handles like a bar of soap, or a Hyundai/Kia with a ticking time bomb of an engine? A sleep inducing midsize SUV or an overpriced and impractical electric car?

Yes there are decent cars with appeal still around (I really love my new Octavia RS) but none are on that list.

[FTE217]

Got to say myself personally on that list none grab me as a DD unless it’s an Everest V6 Sport or higher spec the rest are butt average for my liking.
If I had to chose my Sprint or one from the list know which key I’d grab each time quite simply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[au2000]

Son has just purchased a hilux purely based on the tax man’s advise, although it’s 2nd hand 2018 model, the whole abn thing is not totally accurate, but does help the sales of them, but his tax advise was that as a tradie, abn or not, the whole purchase price, fuel, repairs, rego, insurance etc is tax deductible so financially he was better off taking the plunge…
After going in it I can see why some get them, mind you his “new” hilux has never been off road and he could not justify to himself the cost of em new

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by FTE217

old news was changed in July by Albo gov
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...s-been-slashed
and the ATO is cracking down on small business who has been abusing the system
https://www.9news.com.au/national/at...d-a6a139d8216d

Nothing new here to me - you'd be silly if you didn't look to reduce tax's being your paying so much in other parts of your business that eat into profits.
Works both ways.
If it not this was another hole another decade, what goes around comes around.
Worry about corporates more than small business fellas.

So true, just look up what the income generated from some of the gas fields up north are and what they pay in tax or some of the sales revenue vs profit of the tech companies and it pales in comparison to some FBT or vehicle purchase tax deductions. Inter-company loans created to offset local sales profits means virtually nothing into the local economy from the overseas owned companies.

I wonder if Ford or Toyota will chase the #1 vehicle sales. With Ford having their own dedicated ship does Toyota have the capacity available to ship more across?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

So true, just look up what the income generated from some of the gas fields up north are and what they pay in tax or some of the sales revenue vs profit of the tech companies and it pales in comparison to some FBT or vehicle purchase tax deductions. Inter-company loans created to offset local sales profits means virtually nothing into the local economy from the overseas owned companies.

I wonder if Ford or Toyota will chase the #1 vehicle sales. With Ford having their own dedicated ship does Toyota have the capacity available to ship more across?

It's easier to chase me and you for tax revenue than go after a huge multinational with the resources to tie up the ATO in court for years. If you get to that kind of scale you don't pay taxes, that's for everyone else unfortunately.

[GT1533]

Originally Posted by prydey

That's speculation and assumption.

I'll admit the dual cabs might not be the top selling but its my opinion they would still sell in better numbers than what they've replaced.

So it’s not true, but it’s true?

It’s not speculation. It’s common knowledge. Perhaps you could explain why you think an FBT advantage versus most of the rest of the market doesn’t result in higher sales.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They're not forcing it, but people are being heavily incentivised/subsidised to purchase these vehicles, its not a free market so your point is invalid. You can't have this conversation without acknowledging there is government interference in the market which is driving purchasing decisions.

If they cop LCT and start paying taxes on them, and the price further increases, do you think they'll go the Thailand Special, or are they going to move to SUVs?

Or even better still, fuel efficiency standards get introduced, or the government does what China does and increases registration costs on cars with internal combustion engines and makes it free for EVs - watch how quick people change their buying habits.

Around my area the tradies drive the ute and their partners are in high end euro SUV's...money isn't the issue....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Around my area the tradies drive the ute and their partners are in high end euro SUV's...money isn't the issue....

Oh I'm not saying money is the issue but the big incentives are there to take advantage of, if the incentives go then so will a decent chunk of the sales.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Around my area the tradies drive the ute and their partners are in high end euro SUV's...money isn't the issue....

On the Gc there is a high amount of top end euro suv s

The dealers tell me the majority are leased

There is also a lot of women getting round in 4 wd double cab utes assume owned by the husband/ wife business and with all the tax advantages/ course I m only guessing!

[prydey]

I was merely pointing out that a manufacturer might bring products to market but if they don't sell, they get culled. At the end of the day the power lies with the consumer and the vehicles that are selling are the vehicles people want.

There seems to always be this underlying notion by some that if it weren't for (insert excuse here, govt incentives etc) then falcons would still be in the mix.

Australia is tipped to break the sales record this year, or come close. The dual cabs that are actually selling make up around 10% of sales.

Are people actually suggesting the mix of cars in the top 25 is because people are buying cars they don't really want?

That is my point. If you are one of the people that find the most popular cars of today don't appeal to you, then that is your problem, not the market buying cars they don't want.

[Franco Cozzo]

No, I'm suggesting the top 3 probably wouldn't be moving so many numbers if the incentives disappear.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Mazda's new CX60 and CX90 are RWD drive platforms, even better they come with an inline 6.

So, how many of those who have long pined for a Territory replacement are going to buy the Mazda now?

https://www.mazda.com.au/cars/cx-60/
https://www.mazda.com.au/cars/cx-90/

Yes, this is on the watchlist - if not the top 20 sellers. Base petrol AWD being the sweet spot perhaps. Looking at low to mid 60s? Have seen some reviews where they suggest the drivetrain isn't as refined as what you would expect with inline 6/torque converter auto but I'm sure they will fix this. Anyone own one? What's it like?

Mechanic also suggested Isuzu MUX for a long term travel car with an unbustable (diesel) drivetrain. Anyone own one? Is it as uncomfortable as some private reviewers say?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

None of the cars on the list have more enthusiast appeal than even a base Falcon.

Where’s the appeal of a Recirculux that handles like a bar of soap, or a Hyundai/Kia with a ticking time bomb of an engine? A sleep inducing midsize SUV or an overpriced and impractical electric car?

Yes there are decent cars with appeal still around (I really love my new Octavia RS) but none are on that list.

If I consider personal 'enthusiasm' appeal I'd have to vote for the LandCruiser as I did so much remote work with an old one, that would be the only one on the list, maybe the Prado if the $$$ were judged too high and I wanted second best. The enthusiasm of driving up a rocky track to a radio tower.