LS1 Gen III in an XY??

[Whoosha]

May his valve springs snap and his pistons jump out and slapp him in the face ........ :SaiyanSmi

[70caprigt3k]

DIE!!!!!!!!!!!! :jab:, if he doesnt want a ford motor then why buy a ford chassis.

[BOOSTN-EF]

eh why not!

LS1 is a great motor for making good power and has alot more people that know what to do with them.

The Boss 260 development is an absolute disgrace...

the LS1 has so many turbo/supercharger options and kits going round....

Even though Ford has now provided people with a fantastic base to start from where are the cars????

There are twin turbo LS1 SS's and Monaros allover the pages of magazines and internet sites...... where are the Boss motors?

[TURBOTAXI]

Isnt the custom car scene about building unique cars? Isnt it an expression of personal preference that makes the custom car scene cool?

If we followed the rules we would never have seen anything other than XY GT clones.

351's are cool, I have two, but lets face it they are old tech.

Whilst the LS1 is essentially old tech (burried cam and push rods) it combines the best of old tech knowledge to make pretty good power.

It might surpirse people to learn that when you buy a ford many of the parts are manufactured off shore.

The perfect example is the driveline components that have been shared between commodore and ford over the years.

How short our memory is if we have forgotten the venerable XF ute rebadged as a Nissan.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by BOOSTN-EF

eh why not!

LS1 is a great motor for making good power and has alot more people that know what to do with them.

The Boss 260 development is an absolute disgrace...

the LS1 has so many turbo/supercharger options and kits going round....

Even though Ford has now provided people with a fantastic base to start from where are the cars????

There are twin turbo LS1 SS's and Monaros allover the pages of magazines and internet sites...... where are the Boss motors?

LS1s have been out longer than Boss V8s and you will never see as many Ford V8s modified because of Holden popularity.

[PH47]

Pfft I reckon good on him for doing something different even though it would've been obvious when the idea first crossed his mind that he'd get slammed from all directions.

I get the same reaction from the merc clubs when I tell them what i'm doing, and it's funny how people will sit there going "don't worry what people say man do what you want" then when they find out what exactly you're doing they turn on you and go "wtf you can't do that, what are you, an idiot?"..

Btw congrats to pyroay too for getting in the mag (prolly a thread about this already tho?)

[xd5.8l]

Is it possible to over engineer an engine? Ford has proven it can be done and have snookered themselves and all us supporters in the process.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by KJLynx

LS1s have been out longer than Boss V8s and you will never see as many Ford V8s modified because of Holden popularity.

Technically yes. LS1 being released here in 1999 and the Boss engine in 2003.

However, the 5.4 we use traces its heritage back to 1996 in the USA, and the LS1 GenIII to 1997 in the USA.

There's just as much aftermarket for either engine available, just more readily here for the LS1, importing parts can get expensive.

The man was talking about front-end weight being an issue with the 351C, so he's better off using an LS1 then a Boss, the Boss V8 is heavier then the Cleveland anyway.

[HLC]

think of it this way. at least its another XY shell that's been saved from the crusher.

[nb_351]

but its one less that could have turned out like the yellow one on the cover of the latest sreet fords magazine... HELRZR i think it is... the yellow xw...

[Mutley]

I've had fords all my life but recently a mate of mine asked me to help him put an LS1 out of a crashed SS into a HQ 1 tonner. It turned out to be more difficult than we both thought. Radiator hoses were on the wrong side, the sump was at the front and needed to be shifted to the rear, the position of the starter motor was on the wrong side and the manifolds fouled on the cross member and chassis rails.

In the past, I've fitted a 429 and a 460 to two different XY's which I've owned and used as daily drivers. Although the big blocks are an easy fit into XA - XE's, XW's and XY's are far more difficult.

When I looked more closely at the LS1, all the problems that arose because of its physical size, weight, accessories and component positioning in fitting it into the HQ were infact almost identical to a 351 windsor and would make it almost a perfect fit into an XY.

If you want more reliable and useable power from your XY, here are your choices:
a. stroked Cleveland but standard bore blocks are getting hard to find and fuel economy around 20lt / 100kms. Still the best option in my opinion though:
b. big block but in my opinion its too hard and difficult. Again fuel economy around 20lt / 100kms
c. Fuel injected 5.0lt windsor. Another good choice but its not a pretty engine and is expensive to get serious grunt from... heads, stroker crank etc
d. Boss 290? It wont fit without a gas axe. YuK!
e. LS1? Cheap, fuel efficient, powerful and the easiest conversion for XW-XY's.

If I was building a daily driver and didnt have much money to spend, the LS1 would clearly be the the most practical choice and one that I think will become more popular when people realise how easy it is.

But I suppose most XW-XY's now live in double locked garages and only driven on sunny (not too hot mind you!) Sundays so fuel economy is not important but authenticity is.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Mutley

c. Fuel injected 5.0lt windsor. Another good choice but its not a pretty engine and is expensive to get serious grunt from... heads, stroker crank etc

Interesting. Of all the engines you mentioned, this is generally the cheapest to work with, and has the most aftermarket support and parts availability....

[Polyal]

Wrong, just plain wrong; just as stupid as that Gary Myers Mustang, perhaps even worse.

Where's Kerry when ya need him: "Ford engines belong in Ford Chassis"

[Mutley]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Interesting. Of all the engines you mentioned, this is generally the cheapest to work with, and has the most aftermarket support and parts availability....

I've never had any problems getting parts for a 351 or 429/460 ever.

Steffo, it's been a while since I've done the sums but this is what I based my thinking on. Please comment

429 / 460's
Extractors $1000
Mounts $250
Engine $2000
Recon $2500
HP approx 350

351
Extractors $600
Mounts $100
Engine $800
Recon $2500
HP approx 320

5.0lt EFI
Extractors $600
Mounts $100
Engine $1000
Recon $2500
HP approx 260

Aftermarket heads $2000?
Stroker crank & rods $1500?

LS1
Extractors $600
Mounts $350
Engine $5000
Recon not required
HP approx 400

Boss 290
Extractors $600
Mounts $350
Engine $8000???
Body work $2000???
Recon not required
HP approx 400

I may be way off but this is my best guess.

[Steffo]

According to that there, you've got $5950 for a 400hp LS1. Let's assume for a moment that it does have 400hp, and noe the 370 to 380ish you would have from a factory stock LS1 + exhaust.

Now it depends heavily on the kind of 302W you get, as they've been around for 40 years, but to be fair, lets use one of LS1 vintage.

Say a 200kW (268hp) example out of an AUII XR8 (2000-2001).

Extractors: $600
Mounts: $100
Engine: $3000
Recon not required
HP Approx 300

For $3700 total. The LS1 you've got listed it $5950. That leaves $2,250 to get 100hp more out of that 302. Which is pretty much a heads & cam job.

If were were talking about a carb version, you can buy a 400hp crate motor and run that.

[Mutley]

Steffo, you'll note from my post my preferred option would be a cleveland. Apart from the 'bolt in factory fit', the cleveland looks the best, especially with the shaker.

The point I was trying to get across is that the LS1 would be an easier fit into an XY than a Boss or a big block and would be more practical and driveable than a 400hp injected 5.0lt windsor.

[Steffo]

More practical? Probably not. It's more expensive and there's nothing it can do that the Windsor can't.

More driveable? Depends on how you set the Windsor up.

But is definitley an easier fit then the gigantic Boss or a slightly smaller then a Boss, but still huge Big Block.

[Lukeyson]

that XY is violated !!!! Raped and left for dead in my eyes !

But seriously, you wouldnt source a Boss 290 if the clevo is too heavy, as the Boss is like 20 kg HEAVIER ??

[Ryan]

Saw this aswell.

I like it, because it's not something you see every day.

Atleast it isn't destroyed, with a jap motor.

To me a V8 is a V8, no matter what brand it's from.

Good on him from going to the extreme, I say.

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by Steffo

More practical? Probably not. It's more expensive and there's nothing it can do that the Windsor can't.

More driveable? Depends on how you set the Windsor up.

But is definitley an easier fit then the gigantic Boss or a slightly smaller then a Boss, but still huge Big Block.

Steffo, why don't you shut the Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo up untill you actually start playing with hp instead of yourself? Bloody pintara drivers.
I mean, please. Adults are talking here.

No one mentions the cost of custom extractors/enginemounts etc required for fitting the chev. Those simple costs alone stuff up the cost equation.
$3500 plus a very basic hyper pistoned bottom end can give you 500hp at the flywheel. My car is proof of this. Chev guy loses any credibility by talking about cost or fuel economy... As I say to BA Boss owners when they mentione their superior economy, there's alot of fuel you can buy with the difference in cost.... and who the hell buys these cars for the economy?

[big_pete]

i think you should be more concerned with the attrocity thats one the front of the magazine!

[Lukeyson]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Steffo, start playing with hp instead of yourself?

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Adults are talking here

HAHA that made my day, funny stuff :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Steffo, why don't you shut the Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo up untill you actually start playing with hp instead of yourself? Bloody pintara drivers.
I mean, please. Adults are talking here.

No one mentions the cost of custom extractors/enginemounts etc required for fitting the chev. Those simple costs alone stuff up the cost equation.
$3500 plus a very basic hyper pistoned bottom end can give you 500hp at the flywheel. My car is proof of this. Chev guy loses any credibility by talking about cost or fuel economy... As I say to BA Boss owners when they mentione their superior economy, there's alot of fuel you can buy with the difference in cost.... and who the hell buys these cars for the economy?

I was comparing based on the information he provided. Obviously either engine would cost more then that to set up properly.

LS1 is not a cheap engine to set up in any car, but said post stated that the 5.0 Windsor was more expensive, which is far from the truth. LS1 vs 351C for cost effectiveness in an XY doesn't make sense, because those two letters and single digit, LS1, mean expensive from the get go.

As for your 'smart,' comments... I'd suggest you keep such things to yourself. It's not becoming. :O

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by Steffo

As for your 'smart,' comments... I'd suggest you keep such things to yourself. It's not becoming. :O

Who gives a flying Fire trUCK if my comments are becoming?
Driving a freakin Pintara and espousing the greatness of LPG to anyone who looks at you sideways, and then trying to talk HP with grownups is not "Becoming"

Go stick some more Wheels and Motor magazine pages together will you Steffo?

[XW_GS]

Originally Posted by Dean

He's not the first person to do it, I remember seeing a photo of an XY or XW ute with an injected BB chev in it a few years ago, also a guy who took the engine out of his GT and replaced it with a 6cyl. And lets not forget the hundreds of FORD Rods that are being built with Chevs in them. Lets face it, you can buy a lot more aftermarket parts for a chev.
Don't get me wrong I love the Ford engines and it's not something that I would do, but it's his car and he can justify what he has done I guess.

I'm sure if Ford produced an all Aluminium small Block crate motor for that price most people would go in that direction.

Cheers.

if i remember correctly it was a 186 or a 202 in the GT

[klawsterfobik]

i think it both looks good, and makes sense. He said he even used the same engine mount points... sweet

It is after all only a car *shrugs*

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by klawsterfobik

i think it both looks good,

Are you for real? You really think it looks good with those NNNNty coilpacks sitting on the valve covers?
He freaking had to chop the towers and use a RRS kit to get the exhaust on it! Defenitly loses any right to claim budget as the reason for that rattly , over ported, bucket of crap GM pass off as a motor.

[Swordie]

A 351 has a better sound than a LS1. They are one of best sounding V8’s around.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by klawsterfobik

It is after all only a car *shrugs*

It gave up only being a car when he put GT on the side, it's disgracefull.

[exrtnz]

Originally Posted by Swordie

A 351 has a better sound than a LS1. They are one of best sounding V8’s around.

Yeah the 351C sounds heaps better, it will get the right engine back in there if he ever wants to sell.