Climate Change, some interesting data

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by xy500

...Of course kevo didnt come up with carbon trading, he couldn't come up with an original idea for the country if he was paid to...

Unfortunately, he is paid to.

Some of the latest data I was reading (pointing to solar radiation as the cause) reckons that its gonna get hotter for the next year or two then cool right off for a decade or two. If that comes to pass, hopefully the whole charade will be put to bed.

That means the window of opportunity to fleece the public will soon close and they must take action now. I see on the 7.30 Report the other night they had the Head IPCC scientist pushing the barrow again. I also see the latest Lowy poll suggests most people aren't as concered about climate change any more either.

My biggest problem with the whole debate is that energy efficiency and sustainable energy has been tied to Global Warming. If it turns out to be a fraud, will people still invest in alternatives and the greener, cleaner way of doing things?

Cheers

:

[xy500]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

My biggest problem with the whole debate is that energy efficiency and sustainable energy has been tied to Global Warming. If it turns out to be a fraud, will people still invest in alternatives and the greener, cleaner way of doing things?

i know, it seems like after flogging this climate change thing to death, when it comes to pass that there is no significant change that everyone will lose faith in environmental science & sustainable design, and understandably so. As soon as people start caring about the state of the world, environmentalists cause is ruined!

[burnz]

worth a read; freedom info act, us milatary on global warming hidden by bush/cheney
http://www.examiner.com/x-5266-Seatt...arming-secrecy

[GT69]

Heres a link to a youtube video, its part 1 of 4, not sure if its been posted before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

Very interesting i think anyway.

Where do i sit? I don't believe in global warming, As DR Karl (the real one) said years ago, you cant look at the last 5 years and say 'oh yes its heating up alright'. The results of todays emissions wont be seen for 50 - 100 years. So no, I don't believe in global warming, As this guy in this video points out....if anything we are moving into a global cooling stage, which is far scarier....

I do however believe in renewable energies and recycling.

For the auto industry, God im sick of the fuel consumption punch on, one reason i love the V8's is simply because they aren't really expected to get into the fight. In saying that, imagine if V8's got to 10 or so litres per 100km or even better.....with technology, not de-tuning.

I do think we should clean up, recycle and preserve the environment as best we can though.

Also, well said Walt Kowalski, couldn't agree more.

[Grunter]

I find it ironic that researchers and scientists from both sides can quote research from "reputable" scientific sources, supporting their claims on their respective points of view.

I also find it amusing that whenever some people post in topics like this, they seem to need to add a little shot against those whom may support the opposite view.

I wonder how many billions have been spent researching and disputing both arguements.

[Bobman]

What about the daily weather reports that always tell us the day was "above average" and rainfall is "below average" and "less than this time last year".

While some things may seem dubious, there is nothing bad about reducing pollution so we can breathe better and prevent or slow down some cancers. Anyone else sick of the smokey old bombs on the road?

I was reading an article last night that Victoria's coal power plants may close before 2020. Solar panels and water tanks should really be compulsory for each household and funded by the Government - yes they can afford it since they waste our money on self-promotion and monthly stuff-ups.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Bobman

While some things may seem dubious, there is nothing bad about reducing pollution so we can breathe better and prevent or slow down some cancers.

The bad part comes in at tax payers expense, the average family having to pay over $1000 more for heating ect per year when the scheme will do nothing due to the major polluters not signing up.

The ETS is a stunt to make Aus look good at the tax payers expense.

[Bobman]

Agreed. It's always us poor suckers who have to foot the bill.

[Ohio XB]

They fail to mention that Water vapour is the worst (worst is not the best word to describe it but in this context it will work) greenhouse gas aswell as the most common and will trap more heat then CO2.

My feelings on this, I thank God for his creating of this process. It makes the clouds that bring life giving water that we call "rain". Water vapor condenses into clouds in the colder upper atmosphere. It can't help it, it's physics. Water evaporates, it's how the water gets up there. This notion that it is a bad thing has puzzled me since the first day I heard it.


Carbon dioxide has increased over the last 10 years yet the Earth is on a cooling trend. Make what you want of that.


The last two years it hasn't been worth it to open my swimming pool because of the lack of hot days in the summer.



One year we had 9 or 10 hurricanes hit the southeast coast of the US, where they usually do. This was more than the 4 or 5 average. Global warming people said that was definitive evidence of the effects of global warming, having caused all these additional hurricanes. The next year there was only one hurricane that made landfall. The global warming people were absent for comment as to the cause.



The Earth has always changed. It still does. It always will. When it is done with Man we will be gone and the Earth will go on.


Do I agree on taking steps to reduce air pollution? Yes! Does China?



Steve

[tweeked]

The whole climate change thing is a crock.

Humans are not happy unless something is going to end your way of life.

We've had AIDS, Y2K, Terrorism, Climate change, Global Financial crisis, Swine Flu. All amount to next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

One gets debunked, another comes up. Climate Change is just harder to call shenanigans to as how do you disprove. What makes me laugh is why no one ever comes up with any form of positive for global warming???? I mean is it perfect just now????? Was it better in an ice age???? It has been warmer and colder before, and the world survived.


Hang on, is that a comet heading straight for us?

[Bobman]

There was no cooling trend in January and February in Victoria this year, that's for sure.

Well, 2012 is coming. Some believe things end on December 21st of that year.

[Walt Kowalski]

It is not just "Climate Change" that has two sides of science on opposite sides with one of those sides getting an "inside run" thru left wing Universitiies, left wing Government advisors and left wing media like the ABC.

There is a movie coming out soon called "Expelled" or something like that.

The synopsis has got me.

I am gunna watch it for sure.

You should too.

[GK]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

It is not just "Climate Change" that has two sides of science on opposite sides with one of those sides getting an "inside run" thru left wing Universitiies, left wing Government advisors and left wing media like the ABC.

There is a movie coming out soon called "Expelled" or something like that.

The synopsis has got me.

I am gunna watch it for sure.

You should too.

I agree with your comments about "expelled". Apparently it's a great movie, that really gets you thinking.

GK

[swapper]

Originally Posted by tweeked

We've had AIDS, Y2K, Terrorism, Climate change, Global Financial crisis, Swine Flu. All amount to next to nothing in the grand scheme of things

that might be the stupidest thing I've read on here.

your right, the global financial crisis didn't really effect many lives did it? Note the sarcasm.

And AIDS, yeah nothing in the grand scheme of things, it only killed about 2 MILLION people last year. But I guess not many of those were in Australia so no big deal I guess

anyway back on topic. I love love the number 1 argument from forum experts "the earth had always changed climate, it's just the natural cycle"
correct, do you really think scientists just neglect to notice that. It is the basis of the global warming science.
The temperatures have changed with a close correlation to CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Along came the industrial revolution, and those levels have spiked at a rate WAY faster than ever before. To put it simply I think it's daft to think this won't have an effect on the enviroment.
Previously life had had 1000s of years to adapt to slight changes in temperature. This time around those changes have happened in 50 years

I also love how some forum experts then disbelieve global warming because they haven't used their pool much in the past few years.

Anyway everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally I believe global warming is happening. But that's just my opinion based on some scientific journals I have read.

Cheers

[xy500]

Originally Posted by swapper

anyway back on topic. I love love the number 1 argument from forum experts "the earth had always changed climate, it's just the natural cycle"
correct, do you really think scientists just neglect to notice that. It is the basis of the global warming science.
The temperatures have changed with a close correlation to CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Along came the industrial revolution, and those levels have spiked at a rate WAY faster than ever before. To put it simply I think it's daft to think this won't have an effect on the enviroment.
Previously life had had 1000s of years to adapt to slight changes in temperature. This time around those changes have happened in 50 years

it is assumed that carbon dioxide levels have correlated with global temperatures, from data collected from ice cores. My issue is the way these ice cores are interpreted, there is a lot more room for error than is let on - in a similar way to carbon dating. The way we have measured global temperature has hardly been a constant thing as well. There is a lot of shaky assumptions around using ice core data at the moment.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by swapper

that might be the stupidest thing I've read on here.


your right, the global financial crisis didn't really effect many lives did it? Note the sarcasm.

And AIDS, yeah nothing in the grand scheme of things, it only killed about 2 MILLION people last year. But I guess not many of those were in Australia so no big deal I guess


Cheers

- you dont read much on here do you? :

- And for the last two paragraphs, Note "In the grand scheme of things" - all bad in their individual way, but NOT the end of the world. Just as Climate Change is just greenies gone wild, and will be forgotten for another Sky is Falling problem in ten years time.

[Sapper]

Considering that there are over 6 billion people on this earth that need to be somehow fed I think that plants will need all the help they can get to grow. It seems silly to me to try and reduce carbon emissions when there are far more important issues to deal with. Before all the climate change believers come crowing by with the whole "if things keep up, then in 40 years time we'll all be living under water blah blah blah..." how about looking at the problems we have got TODAY.

Firstly, considering that there are many first world countries that still do not have financial stability. Here in Australia, the previous federal government left us with a strong financial and banking sector which has enabled the current government to maintain Australias world leading government investment in research and development. We are the exception to the rule and live up to our namme as the lucky country. Countries like the US rely heavily on private investment on research and development of new technologies. Until the western economic system can regain stability and prosperity, many of the new technologies needed to "reduce carbon emissions" will not have the funding to be developed. Currently developing nations like China and India have offered little to help solve this problem. The climate change movement has not provided a solution to this current issue.

Secondly, there are countries in the third world with exploding populations that have little basic infrastructure to maintain the health of everyday people. Countries like Uganda have little to no means of being able to feed their population, prevent the spread of disease and give people the chance to educate themselves. Afghanistan used to be like this along with supplying over 90% of the world's opium. The Bush and Howard governments along with other western governments initiated a reconstruction program to teach Afghanistani's how to care for themselves along with building schools, hospitals along with basic infrastructure. For someone who is unsure whether they will eat today or if they will survive a preventable life threatening illness, the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere or the population of polar bears have little importance. News flash for the climate change movement...the lives of a thousand people are more important than the lives of a thousand polar bears. There are millions of people who will die of preventable illnesses and starvation long before they are influenced by the effects of alleged "man made global warming." The climate change movement has no solution to this problem.

These are only 2 of the current global issues facing mankind. Before Al Gore and his henchmen continue on their global crusade to rid the world of carbon emissions (note that carbon dioxide is a vital ingredient in the process of photosynthesis), maybe they should put their efforts into helping fix some current global issues. Lets get some appropriate perspective, it makes sense to deal with issues that face us today as opposed to twenty, forty or a hundred years time.

All this is assuming that man made climate change is a real problem. If it turns out that man made climate change is not a problem, won't we all look silly having spent trillions of dollars fixing a hoax. Especially when we can't even look after our fellow man.

I'm not going to claim that I have the balance right. But I will not subscribe to the climate change movement until I have personally been able to make a difference in more important areas of life on this planet. Two areas of which, I have mentioned above.

[Bobman]

The major issue is over-population.

If there was a 1 - 2 child policy across the world, then we'd see many issues resolve themselves.

That's just my opinion but I'm not alone in thinking that the population explosion is having disastrous effects on every form of our everyday lives.

[Ohio XB]

I also love how some forum experts then disbelieve global warming because they haven't used their pool much in the past few years.

I've never claimed to be an expert, just someone that does not believe.

In the past two years, particularly this year, we have had record cool summer months (July, August), not to mention the summer seasons. Spring had been coming earlier in the year for several years but that trend has also reversed. Cooler temperatures from winter have been dragging on longer with snow falling later as well, and cool temperatures are also arriving sooner in the Fall. The trend of early Spring/late Fall has reversed over the past several years.


This past Spring, April is when things get into full swing. Daffodils start to blossom and trees start to get buds on them ready to bloom. Instead, we had 2 feet of snow.........in APRIL.



Temperatures are supposed to be in the 40's and 50's (F) normally, but you can see that wasn't happening. 2008 was the same way.

Winter as a bigger percentage of the year compared to normal, record cool summers, happening for the past several years. This is my global warming, and it isn't too promising.





Steve

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by Laminge

I have had enough, if you going to take the effort to re register and head straight for here, then ultimately these forums are not for you.

Duplicate accounts will be banned

For a bloke to get banned twice, really where's the higher level of intelligence there??

my 2 cents,

The world will get hot, the world will get cold
Water will fall more in someplaces and less in others
What we do or don't do as the human race will be counted and mother nature (for the lack of a better name) will see to that.

For all our record keeping, research, discoveries and theories, over the massive amount of time we've been around (tongue in check), it still amounts to zip in the grand nature of this universe.

We either evolve and consume or stay quietly under that rock....

:togo:

[SB076]

ETS is just another tax, in a few years time we will be paying double for water, electricity and gas. ETS will be the device that triggers it and climate change will be the justification.

As others have said I have real concerns about what happens to certian industries in Aus and expect businesses to move off shore and people to lose their jobs.

[Sapper]

Looks like the climate change movement is an attempt to launch a world government. I have a flick through the alleged draft treaty to be signed at the Copenhagen climate change meeting. If this is the case then it is certainly very worrying.

Here is an article from former advisor to Margaret Thatcher
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/551...rld-government

Copenhagen Draft Treaty
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...hagen-2009.pdf

I hope for all our sakes that this is not the case.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sapper

Looks like the climate change movement is an attempt to launch a world government. I have a flick through the alleged draft treaty to be signed at the Copenhagen climate change meeting. If this is the case then it is certainly very worrying.

Here is an article from former advisor to Margaret Thatcher
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/551...rld-government

Copenhagen Draft Treaty
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...hagen-2009.pdf

I hope for all our sakes that this is not the case.

New World Order conspiracy right?

[MO]

Without even reading the links the idea of a world government has been postulated for at least 20yrs that I'm aware of.

Mind you it wont matter if the Mayans have got it right!

[Bobman]

I'm more concerned about a cashless society and id tags, but hey I'd rather go back to the 90s.

[AndrewR_AUII]

As mentioned previously...the bigger issue is that the human population cannot continue to expand - eventually, something IS going to give.
No matter what we do in terms of pollution, energy efficiency etc is going to be undone as, while on a per capita basis we are consuming less we continue to breed as if we are rabbits crossed with lemmings.

On the ETS, is EVERY economy going to take this up. If not, then we are simply handing jobs to the countries that don't.

Part of the solution is for the world to stop growing (somehow) and to encourage the use of genuinely 'greener' technologies and practices (solar hot water, water tanks in particular)

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Sapper

Looks like the climate change movement is an attempt to launch a world government. I have a flick through the alleged draft treaty to be signed at the Copenhagen climate change meeting. If this is the case then it is certainly very worrying.

Here is an article from former advisor to Margaret Thatcher
http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/551...rld-government

Copenhagen Draft Treaty
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...hagen-2009.pdf

I hope for all our sakes that this is not the case.

100% Correct.
I have heard Lord Monckton talk about it with Glenn Beck, and this morning Alan Jones. It's truly frightening stuff this. Hopefully a certain someone has FOD on his BBJ and gets grounded.