Australia - China - Poltics

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No - the Govco is going to say find another buyer, one that isn't trying to interfere in our politics.

And as a business owner in a free market how would that make you feel? Knowing you could be dropping a large % in the sake of the "national" interest?

What if the buyers are not lining up?

You cant, for the most part, say you can not sell assets to particular people. If the are Gov/Commonwealth owned then that is different, but not private.

[ad2013]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

These two agencies should be involved in infrastructure and significant asset sales to foreign entities:

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/

https://firb.gov.au/

You might not say no to being offered top dollar by foreign interests on your farm but if it's not in the best interests in Australia then the government will have a say.

The same as how the ACCC will step in to stop company acquisitions to prevent monopolies.

Maybe, but I'm not too confident in the government getting it right with regards to what is in Australian interests. Remember the Darwin port lease to China. China may have banned meat from a few abattoirs in Qld and NSW, but I don't think the Chinese have stopped live cattle exports from Darwin to China!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-...-risk/10755720

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

And as a business owner in a free market how would that make you feel? Knowing you could be dropping a large % in the sake of the "national" interest?

What if the buyers are not lining up?

You cant, for the most part, say you can not sell assets to particular people. If the are Gov/Commonwealth owned then that is different, but not private.

Sure you can - we don't have a completely free market, its regulated, same with how the ACCC will intervene when business start consolidating a market which reduces competition.

If buyers aren't line up I guess no one wants your farm, or you'll sell it for what locals are prepared to pay if you want to get rid of it.

[MITCHAY]

It's a complex issue and most people didn't really give it much thought until this current crisis. I think if the economy fires up again relatively soon this will be quickly forgotten on all sides. We're a democracy and most people vote with their wallets.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Sure you can - we don't have a completely free market, its regulated, same with how the ACCC will intervene when business start consolidating a market which reduces competition.

If buyers aren't line up I guess no one wants your farm, or you'll sell it for what locals are prepared to pay if you want to get rid of it.

Is that suggestion not a communist practice in itself, the very thing everyone is getting up in arms about?

[T3rminator]

Watch this. This is why Australia needs to stay out of HK's affairs. We are not doing the honkies any favours. In fact the US meddlings into HK's affairs has broken international law....but no one cares?


It seems the US is bored of the middle east. It has now turned its attention to Asia. Starting with HK. Next will be Taiwan. Australia is just regarded as collateral damage. Look at the rubbish coming out of the media attacking Victoria and Dan Andrews. The assault is relentless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyECgE0oegE

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Watch this. This is why Australia needs to stay out of HK's affairs. We are not doing the honkies any favours. In fact the US meddlings into HK's affairs has broken international law....but no one cares?


It seems the US is bored of the middle east. It has now turned its attention to Asia. Starting with HK. Next will be Taiwan. Australia is just regarded as collateral damage. Look at the rubbish coming out of the media attacking Victoria and Dan Andrews. The assault is relentless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyECgE0oegE

Andrews deserves every bit of flack he receives. Just look at the poor countries that signed up to one sided deals that they could never afford to pay back, and the way China took their ports and facilities as payment. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Dan would be well advised to stay they hell away from these shady bastards.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Andrews deserves every bit of flack he receives. Just look at the poor countries that signed up to one sided deals that they could never afford to pay back, and the way China took their ports and facilities as payment. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Dan would be well advised to stay they hell away from these shady bastards.

That is what I dont get. We haven't locked ourselves into anything. There is nothing legally binding in the MOU. If fact, if nothing is explored and we dont do any business with China, we haven't breached anything! The MOU is in the open for all to see. What we need to do is triple our due diligence if anything comes up that could benefit Victoria.



When you sign a deal you are responsible for keeping that deal. That is like me blaming NAB for taking my property if I can't meet my mortgage repayments.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

That is what I dont get. We haven't locked ourselves into anything. There is nothing legally binding in the MOU. If fact, if nothing is explored and we dont do any business with China, we haven't breached anything! The MOU is in the open for all to see. What we need to do is triple our due diligence if anything comes up that could benefit Victoria.



When you sign a deal you are responsible for keeping that deal. That is like me blaming NAB for taking my property if I can't meet my mortgage repayments.

Yes it's only an MOU. But I for one hope it never goes beyond that.

And do banks also not have laws regarding giving loans to people without the capacity to service those loans? They have been caught before doing it, and the recent royal commission into the banks found plenty of examples of it happening.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Watch this. This is why Australia needs to stay out of HK's affairs. We are not doing the honkies any favours. In fact the US meddlings into HK's affairs has broken international law....but no one cares?


It seems the US is bored of the middle east. It has now turned its attention to Asia. Starting with HK. Next will be Taiwan. Australia is just regarded as collateral damage. Look at the rubbish coming out of the media attacking Victoria and Dan Andrews. The assault is relentless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyECgE0oegE

I started watching then I noticed the line under the vid "CGTN is funded in whole or in part by the Chinese government". Wikipedia

Unbiased reporting?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Is that suggestion not a communist practice in itself, the very thing everyone is getting up in arms about?

It's not communism at all, it's a regulated market, similar to what we have now.

In China you can only have 20 or 70 year leases, you don't 'own' residential properties which is why they buy in Australia so they can get money out of the system and pass something down to their children.

If you had a free market there'd be no minimum wage, no minimum employment conditions/awards/environmental protections, no anti discrimination legislation or legislation against anti competitive behavior etc.

[T3rminator]

CGTN is a Chinese network and, as you know, the gov owns all media networks. But CGTN is also available in the US free to air and also on Australian Foxtel. Here is another interesting fact, we talk about media censorship, did you know Australia is ranked 4th in the developed world in terms of media concentration ownership? We talk about Americans being brainwashed, but they have a far more breadth of media ownership, and the people have options.



Did you watch it though? If you are not convinced then speak to a local past 30 years of age and see what they say . You can also have a read of Carrie Lam's (HK CEO) address. But I guess the cynic will say she is just towing the CCP line. .

I am starting to sound like a CCP apologist so I'll stop

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

It's not communism at all, it's a regulated market, similar to what we have now.

Regulation and its "fairness" will depend on your perspective, the Farmer or any business owner) trying to sell only to be told he cant might see that as dictation not a free market.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Regulation and its "fairness" will depend on your perspective, the Farmer or any business owner) trying to sell only to be told he cant might see that as dictation not a free market.

But we don't have a free market anyway because we have existing regulations.

You might own X thousand acres of property and it's yours personally but it effects the nation as a whole if you sell it to foreign interests which is why we have these issues starting to crop up.

Democracy is a spectrum, it's not binary or a flowchart with a yes or no path.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

In China you can only have 20 or 70 year leases, you don't 'own' residential properties which is why they buy in Australia so they can get money out of the system and pass something down to their children.

Yep it is a completely different system. China is not Australia, UK or US. China is China.
They are also about to end "extreme poverty" by end of this year.
When I lived in the UK about 10 years ago, there were over 1m children living below the poverty line.

We had Chinese paying over the odds for property in Australia because they needed to "hide it". When Xi took office, he set up a number of anti corruption bodies to crack down on bribery and corruption. Those that financially benefited from corruption in the past or present had to get their money out of China ASAP and "hide it". Property in Australia was the perfect choice, and they didn't care if they had to pay 30% over the market value. In their eyes, at least they got to keep it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...estate/6841816

[T3rminator]

Sorry guys, I need a rant....and I know many will disagree.

Looking at what is happening in the US right now, I can't help but feel we have been completley stooged, and as a country we have destroyed an income stream based on intel and propaganda coming out of a regime that looks like it is about to collapse. I wonder if minister Payne and Dutton will come out on national TV and condemn a regime that is inciting and glorifying violence against Afro Americans. "when the looting starts the shooting starts" Trump tweets, and was later backed by the White House account. Look up where that quote comes from.

The US have criticised and antagonised HK officials on their handlings of protestors in HK. HK protestors that have been bashing, stabbing and setting local residents on fire for 5 months running. From what I can see, there has been one HK protestor injured from a live bullet round. We are day 3 into the US protest and 7 protestors have been injured with live rounds in Kentucky alone. Who is being brutal and oppressive? The protestors in the HK are "freedom fighters" but the protesters in the US are "thugs"?

I've also been reading up a bit more on the Uyghurs issue, because it always gets brought up, and I encourage people to do their own research. China has historically been hit with terrorism in that region, something that we hear very little about. Market bombings and there was even an incident where a terrorist got on a school bus and stabbed all the Chinese kids. Thousands of innocent residents have died. Ok, so I get why they are clamping down hard. But are they being cruel? The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) initially condemned China for the treatment of the muslim Uyghurs. China invited them to inspect the camps. After which the OIC released a report (https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250). See item 20. WTF?! And before you say "they are only saying this because they are coerced or threatened", tell me how many muslim countries have ever backed down from a threat? The OIC consists of 40+ muslim majority nations, and you'd be kidding yourself if you think as a committee they are being threatened. Here is an aussie article with some examples of the terrorist activities, but they also suggest the IOC is keeping quiet due to fear, which is the BS part: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/i...19-4?r=US&IR=T

Then we are told China are losing friends and we should distance ourselves. From what I can see, only we are being stooged. Relationship between China and Russia, Iran, Pakistan and some parts of the EU and Africa have actually improved. Greece wants to open a travel bubble with 29 other countries, one of them is China. 22 European nations have signed up to the BRI, no invasion concerns there?! On the surface, Brazil is condeming China, yet they are fighting to fill the void left by the souring China - Canada trade relationship (which funnily enough was also caused by US).

The US is now exporting more to China than pre-pandemic. The US also ran away from the indepedent review of the pandemic, they didnt sign up at the World Health Assembly after getting us to do their dirty work...but China signed up!?! WTF?! Ok so there is a claim that WHO was in cahoots with China to hide the pandemic. Think rationally about it for a second. The WHO is made up of scientists and officials from member states. I cant believe we wouldnt have American, British or European staff whistle blowing if there indeed was a conspiracy.

We have been butt ****ed

Rant over..

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

The US have criticised and antagonised HK officials on their handlings of protestors in HK. HK protestors that have been bashing, stabbing and setting local residents on fire for 5 months running. From what I can see, there has been one HK protestor injured from a live bullet round. We are day 3 into the US protest and 7 protestors have been injured with live rounds in Kentucky alone. Who is being brutal and oppressive? The protestors in the HK are "freedom fighters" but the protesters in the US are "thugs"?

Only one HK protester injured? And if that's the case over almost a year of protests, I'd say they were peaceful, wouldn't you? The vast majority of those protests were actual protests. Yes, there was carnage and spot-fires throughout the country too.

It's the polar opposite in the states. People describing looters and rioters in mostly Democrat run Cities as protesters? They order the police to stand-down in some districts and mostly it's the same horde of losers that rioted for months after 45 won in 2016. This is organised for the most part.

Just exactly who or from what administration do you think has bummed us? Still in some form of a lockdown and it appears you're sticking up for China?

*edit* I give people the benefit of doubt when it comes to if they know the difference between a state that's been governed by a red hat or blue hat.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Only one HK protester injured? And if that's the case over almost a year of protests, I'd say they were peaceful, wouldn't you? The vast majority of those protests were actual protests. Yes, there was carnage and spot-fires throughout the country too.

It's the polar opposite in the states. People describing looters and rioters in mostly Democrat run Cities as protesters? They order the police to stand-down in some districts and mostly it's the same horde of losers that rioted for months after 45 won in 2016. This is organised for the most part.

Just exactly who or from what administration do you think has bummed us?

Not one protestor injured. One protestor injured from a live bullet. It is far from peaceful if you look at some of the footages being posted on twitter. I suspect thats why Trump is accusing twitter of spreading Chinese propaganda. There are some horrific footages of these "protestors" attacking residents for no apparent reason. People look to Singapore as a model for what HK could be. This is what the Singapore leader said of the protestors against the extradition bill "Those are not demands which are meant to be a program to solve Hong Kong’s problems. Those are demands which are intended to humiliate and bring down the government"


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/17/sing...usinesses.html




Who has bummed us? Well lets see. Morrison tweeted that he had a "constructive conversation" with Trump. Less than 48 hours later, Payne and Dutton go on national TV demanding "answers", screaming at "lack of transparency" and suggestions of a "cover up". Make your own judgement who is driving the narrative.
As Pompeo said "I was the head of the CIA. We lied, we cheated, we stole. We even had training materials".



And this just in....

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/a...20-5?r=US&IR=T


"A senior US official, who declined to be named told Politico that Trump and Merkel had “heated disagreements on topics including NATO, the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany, and relations with China,” during a phone call this week."





I need to get off the internet its driving me nuts.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Still in some form of a lockdown and it appears you're sticking up for China?

Nah. I guess I'm just asking "why" and "what if". Going a bit mad with too much analysis I think.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Nah. I guess I'm just asking "why" and "what if". Going a bit mad with too much analysis I think.

We've all been wrong before, plenty a time. Because we've been lied to/trolled/mislead/manipulated etc in some form - nothing to quit over though. Questioning and critical thinking is a good thing.

Too many grew up eating sugar-coated cereal, believed in Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy/Boogie Monster (was fun as a kids and for parents though)...then you go to school.....One class is religious instruction, the next is Greek Mythology, the others Biology - then throw in the biggest spanner of them all, puberty... Talk about confusion/rebellion.

I could be wrong now. I'd bet that that I'm wrong as opposed to being 100% right - truth must be learned and not told.

[MITCHAY]

Well I think it's about to get a lot worse before it gets better. Something is going on in China. Coming out hard on HK, Taiwan, and now it's escalating on the border with India.

It has at best the potential to sour relations more or at worse draw us into some messy **** if it kicks off.

I hope I'm wrong but you can only play both sides of the fence for so long and we will inevitably come down on the US side.

[mad2]

no one has mentioned island building........... nor china's reigning party's efforts in the south china sea.

[cheap]

Australia - China - Politics

Well we are very much caught up in US - China politics.

Our largest trading partner V’s a large investor and security partner.

Watch the link below of the news conference Trump gave yesterday. Watch from beginning to end USA has announced the initiation of economic war with China watch the body language and posture. Trump doesn’t blink calling out China on numerous criminal actions. This is going to escalate significantly.

Then listen to the corrupt and ignorant media who haven’t a clue try to ask him about a riot which will be over in a few days.

https://youtu.be/UwV455FUoTQ

[PhilT2]

I'm open about my anti Trump bias but I have to admit that is the best speech I have heard him deliver. Even though he was reading from the telepromters he managed to sound like he wasn't and even ad libbed a few times without it sounding odd. But all politicians make nice speeches when an election is coming up. Results not words, are what counts.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

I'm open about my anti Trump bias but I have to admit that is the best speech I have heard him deliver. Even though he was reading from the telepromters he managed to sound like he wasn't and even ad libbed a few times without it sounding odd. But all politicians make nice speeches when an election is coming up. Results not words, are what counts.

Personally I love these ones:

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Sorry guys, I need a rant....and I know many will disagree.

Looking at what is happening in the US right now, I can't help but feel we have been completley stooged, and as a country we have destroyed an income stream based on intel and propaganda coming out of a regime that looks like it is about to collapse. I wonder if minister Payne and Dutton will come out on national TV and condemn a regime that is inciting and glorifying violence against Afro Americans. "when the looting starts the shooting starts" Trump tweets, and was later backed by the White House account. Look up where that quote comes from.

The US have criticised and antagonised HK officials on their handlings of protestors in HK. HK protestors that have been bashing, stabbing and setting local residents on fire for 5 months running. From what I can see, there has been one HK protestor injured from a live bullet round. We are day 3 into the US protest and 7 protestors have been injured with live rounds in Kentucky alone. Who is being brutal and oppressive? The protestors in the HK are "freedom fighters" but the protesters in the US are "thugs"?

I've also been reading up a bit more on the Uyghurs issue, because it always gets brought up, and I encourage people to do their own research. China has historically been hit with terrorism in that region, something that we hear very little about. Market bombings and there was even an incident where a terrorist got on a school bus and stabbed all the Chinese kids. Thousands of innocent residents have died. Ok, so I get why they are clamping down hard. But are they being cruel? The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) initially condemned China for the treatment of the muslim Uyghurs. China invited them to inspect the camps. After which the OIC released a report (https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250). See item 20. WTF?! And before you say "they are only saying this because they are coerced or threatened", tell me how many muslim countries have ever backed down from a threat? The OIC consists of 40+ muslim majority nations, and you'd be kidding yourself if you think as a committee they are being threatened. Here is an aussie article with some examples of the terrorist activities, but they also suggest the IOC is keeping quiet due to fear, which is the BS part: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/i...19-4?r=US&IR=T

Then we are told China are losing friends and we should distance ourselves. From what I can see, only we are being stooged. Relationship between China and Russia, Iran, Pakistan and some parts of the EU and Africa have actually improved. Greece wants to open a travel bubble with 29 other countries, one of them is China. 22 European nations have signed up to the BRI, no invasion concerns there?! On the surface, Brazil is condeming China, yet they are fighting to fill the void left by the souring China - Canada trade relationship (which funnily enough was also caused by US).

The US is now exporting more to China than pre-pandemic. The US also ran away from the indepedent review of the pandemic, they didnt sign up at the World Health Assembly after getting us to do their dirty work...but China signed up!?! WTF?! Ok so there is a claim that WHO was in cahoots with China to hide the pandemic. Think rationally about it for a second. The WHO is made up of scientists and officials from member states. I cant believe we wouldnt have American, British or European staff whistle blowing if there indeed was a conspiracy.

We have been butt ****ed

Rant over..

I don't even know where to start with this. Worst take I have seen or heard.

Not everything is black and white, but you are so far from the game you are playing a complete other sport.

WHO is beholden to China and their money. Their head honcho has ties to China.

The Chinese Muslims are not treated well. They even send a Chinese official to "live" with the women while the men are off being "re-educated". Don't need to add 2 and 2 together to see what is happening there.

Incited and glorifiying violence against african americans? Absolute rubbish. The police are equally heavy handed with white people, it's just that it's not newsworthy. The rioters have been hijacked by terrorist groups like antifa whose only goal is to cause anarchy. And a whole bunch of people who just want to steal ****. They are really honouring the dead guys memory by stealing that new flat screen TV. That will teach the police

Do you think the Chinese officials in HK will release the real death toll from the protesters there? Most disappear without a trace. And they are genuinely protesting, not stealing big screen TV's cause they can.

[T3rminator]

As I said, I know most will disagree, but that's fine.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Incited and glorifiying violence against african americans? Absolute rubbish.

You can't defend the indefensible. I would suggest you look up where that quote comes from.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Chinese Muslims are not treated well. They even send a Chinese official to "live" with the women while the men are off being "re-educated". Don't need to add 2 and 2 together to see what is happening there.

So, what you are saying is that you know more than the The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, which is made up of more than 40 muslim majority countries, and which did a field inspection. Yeh ok. I'm sure they probably didnt show 100% of everything that goes on in the camps, but I think it would be pretty obvious to the OIC if there was a mass killings and violation of rights at these camps. Or are you suggesting the OIC are corrupt?

Watch the link below of the news conference Trump gave yesterday. Watch from beginning to end USA has announced the initiation of economic war with China watch the body language and posture. Trump doesn’t blink calling out China on numerous criminal actions. This is going to escalate significantly.

Not surprised at all. I saw an interview between an american and chinese official about 12 months ago, before the pandemic, debating the two country's economy. The chinese official said, based on current trajectory, China will overtake US economy in about 10 years time. The US official said, there is no way the US will let that happen without a fight.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Incited and glorifiying violence against african americans? Absolute rubbish. The police are equally heavy handed with white people, it's just that it's not newsworthy.

The chanced of an unarmed black man being killed by law enforcement are about three times higher than for an unarmed white.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

The chanced of an unarmed black man being killed by law enforcement are about three times higher than for an unarmed white.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

And do you ever hear about the white man being killed?

The white cop has been charged with murder so he will get what's coming to him. Was a completely unnecessary action. He was already cuffed.

[T3rminator]

Wow dude. When the channel 9 reporter said to one of the protestors who was interviewed "the people of Australia don't understand the history of police killings and things here" she got absolutely smashed. It seems it might actually be true after all.....



https://twitter.com/nakkiahlui/statu...091401216?s=20