The Reason The LTD Isn't Selling...

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I think Mercedes have it right... more body styles available, you cant just have a medium sedan and a large sedan these days, and expect the company to prosper. Ford have a couple of body styles with a couple of engine options
Mercedes have two large SUVs M and GL with about 4 or more engine options in each
4 two door cars CLK, CL, SL and SLK
2 large 4 door sedans E class and CLS
and 3 ranges which look original and not like anything other companies have A, B and R class

Mercedes have changed their line-up, not relied on what success they had in the 70s and 80s. They could have sat around and did nothing and whinged and said "nobodys buying S classes anymore"

Ford might be better off to globalize the brand, invest more money in to their products, and sell each vehicle produced from different plants around the world, export it to everywhere else and go for a consistancy in their lineup around the world, rather than a different set of product names and vehicles for each country. The Mercury brand should be gone, and the Lincoln and FPV brands should be global.
Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Falcon, Interceptor
Focus convertible, Cougar, Mustang, GT
Escape, Territory, Explorer, Expedition
Territory pickup, Ranger, F series
Transit, Econoline (ditch the Econovan)

Lincolns: MKX, MKZ, Navigator and Town Car (designed as world-class cars of course)

FPV: every shape should have an FPV model

engines should also be global and high tech, with a good choice of direct injection E85 compatible petrol and Common Rail diesel engines in each vehicle, with a diesel-electric hybrid option too

What does FoNA do with the Freestyle, Five Hundred and Fusion products and how will they make up the volume loss with Mercury out of play? I'm not arguing against a more fluid line-up as you suggest for Ford, its just that the reality of finding the right product mix for a global market is not as easy as Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen make it appear to be.

I really can't find any good reasons why a small, mismanaged, backyard operation like FPV should take contol as a global performance arm for Ford when they already have a more capable division like SVT.

The root of this issue lies in the mentality that Ford have had that if the segment is predicted to contract or change then it becomes all too hard for them to attempt to compete in and the result is that they walk away from it or ride it out with a pruduct with minimal investment. A secondary issue is how they cope with success once they get there. Typically when a Ford product becomes a leader of a segment cost cutting comes into play almost immediately and the sales slowly fall back down to earth. They have always been their own worst enemy.

[Franky]

And the question was why doesn't the LTD sell?

Cause it's supposed to look like this!!!!!!!!!!

[steel_dot]

When you are paying that much for a car, especially a local car, it has got to look good. Right now it looks so-so/ok/nothing special. Both the previous and current model Statesman look a lot better. Taste is subjective, but it seems hardly anyone loves the look of Fairlane/LTD. I have seen a few A8's recently . . . geezuz, that's what a large luxury car should look like. I'm not too much into the very large car segment but that one I would love to have. Its big, muscular, subtle and doesnt look like an oil tanker on wheels, unlike the ltd.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by RPO83

What does FoNA do with the Freestyle, Five Hundred and Fusion products and how will they make up the volume loss with Mercury out of play? I'm not arguing against a more fluid line-up as you suggest for Ford, its just that the reality of finding the right product mix for a global market is not as easy as Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen make it appear to be.

I really can't find any good reasons why a small, mismanaged, backyard operation like FPV should take contol as a global performance arm for Ford when they already have a more capable division like SVT.

The root of this issue lies in the mentality that Ford have had that if the segment is predicted to contract or change then it becomes all too hard for them to attempt to compete in and the result is that they walk away from it or ride it out with a pruduct with minimal investment. A secondary issue is how they cope with success once they get there. Typically when a Ford product becomes a leader of a segment cost cutting comes into play almost immediately and the sales slowly fall back down to earth. They have always been their own worst enemy.

yeah i know about SVT, but i think the acronym FPV or the name Ford Performance Vehicles will work better for a global market and to enhance the Ford image, and could be seen as a good new thing in the US too, it doesnt have to have Aussie influence. Mercury are the Oldsmobile and Plymouth of Ford. The brand that just sits there. It doesnt have the charisma and agressiveness or dare-devil like of the Dodge brand, or the badboy pimp, luxury level of Cadillac or Lincoln, and they only have re-badged Ford product anyway. Oldsmobile and Plymouth are gone, could be a matter of time till Mercury does the same?

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Franky

And the question was why doesn't the LTD sell?

Cause it's supposed to look like this!!!!!!!!!!

Thats the concept INTERCEPTOR... that would make a statement as the LTD.

[Zedjay]

the current Fairlane/LTD(BA/BF) are the first one's in history to use the same tail lights as the falcon. headlights are close too

they have always been based on falcons but never looked so much like one.

the ZF/ZG fairlanes were accused of looking like falcons so ford made sure the ZH looked like a completely different car.

hopfully if they do keep building Fairlane/LTDs they will do the same and the next gen lanes and LTDs will look nothing like a falcon

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Franky

And the question was why doesn't the LTD sell?

Cause it's supposed to look like this!!!!!!!!!!

Franky; you're an ideas man. Can I give you a deposit for that?
That interceptor car is seriously horn.
What a look. Even if ford aus removed some of the chrome it will still look awesome and give the lwb segment some added class. As said by someone before, make the lwb what lexus is to toyota.

[Bossxr8]

The problem with LWB cars now is the competition and badge snobery. When the Fairlane and LTD were first made there was nothing that could come near them in terms of size, price and luxury. They simply had no competetion. If you wanted something Euro it was going to cost you heaps more and it would be a lot smaller. Nowadays there a lots of similar priced Euro cars that are better equiped for the same price, even though they lack the size, but bigger doesn't mean better like it used to. Then there are the badge snobs who think they are better than everyone if they have a BMW or MB badge, and turn up their noses at anything local. Times have changed. Ford just haven't adapted or had the cash to do something about it.

[Gobes32]

If it wasn't for exports then Holden would not be able to justify the amount of R & D that they poured into the new LWB range. Ford spent a lot of money to turn the AU into the BA and when all is said and done, there was no money left to fix the LWB range. Holden spent money on Statesman and Caprice due to the fact that they sell 5 LWB cars in the Middle East for every one they sell here. Correct me if i am wrong but it is something close to those figures. Ford could spend the money on the Fairlane / LTD and send them overseas but it costs money, is a big risk and Ford are not in the financial position to do that. It is an unfortunate situation but not much can be done.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by acosta32

If it wasn't for exports then Holden would not be able to justify the amount of R & D that they poured into the new LWB range. Ford spent a lot of money to turn the AU into the BA and when all is said and done, there was no money left to fix the LWB range. Holden spent money on Statesman and Caprice due to the fact that they sell 5 LWB cars in the Middle East for every one they sell here. Correct me if i am wrong but it is something close to those figures. Ford could spend the money on the Fairlane / LTD and send them overseas but it costs money, is a big risk and Ford are not in the financial position to do that. It is an unfortunate situation but not much can be done.

Only an export market could save the Fairlane.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by RPO83

The root of this issue lies in the mentality that Ford have had that if the segment is predicted to contract or change then it becomes all too hard for them to attempt to compete in and the result is that they walk away from it or ride it out with a pruduct with minimal investment. A secondary issue is how they cope with success once they get there. Typically when a Ford product becomes a leader of a segment cost cutting comes into play almost immediately and the sales slowly fall back down to earth. They have always been their own worst enemy.

Here is a quote that could easily be interlaced in multiple current threads. Spot on.

[devilracer_01]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Ford have no interest in LTD.

For the last few years they have been killing it off. You will see that in the past the LTD was more expencive with less. The only people buying them were the loyal LTD owners, FoMoCo Aust killed them off. Now they will stop making them due to lack of sales.. Go figure.

Havent they stopped producing it or going to???

[Gobes32]

Don't be surprised if fairlane/LTD comes out with orion front end treatment ala xd/xg/xh.

[LeadFoot81]

So we should expect B-something or other Wagon/Fairlane (even ute), alongside the totally new Orion Falcon?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The problem with LWB cars now is the competition and badge snobery. When the Fairlane and LTD were first made there was nothing that could come near them in terms of size, price and luxury. They simply had no competetion. If you wanted something Euro it was going to cost you heaps more and it would be a lot smaller. Nowadays there a lots of similar priced Euro cars that are better equiped for the same price, even though they lack the size, but bigger doesn't mean better like it used to. Then there are the badge snobs who think they are better than everyone if they have a BMW or MB badge, and turn up their noses at anything local. Times have changed. Ford just haven't adapted or had the cash to do something about it.

There is also the issue that you buy an LTD and queue up at the local Ford dealer and get the same dealer and service experience as the fella who just got an XT ute. Given that there is a fair chance the ute owner doesnt think much of the service he is getting, it sure is enough to have many potential luxury buyers running screamng to Lexus or a European brand.
Dan

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

There is also the issue that you buy an LTD and queue up at the local Ford dealer and get the same dealer and service experience as the fella who just got an XT ute. Given that there is a fair chance the ute owner doesnt think much of the service he is getting, it sure is enough to have many potential luxury buyers running screamng to Lexus or a European brand.
Dan

True, but the earlier high selling LTD's had the same dealers selling them as well as Falcon 500's didn't they. I guess things are different now and some people expect the higher service experience from a flagship model.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Inline6

So we should expect B-something or other Wagon/Fairlane (even ute), alongside the totally new Orion Falcon?

Since there won't be a new Fairlane or wagon in the immediate future you have to assume Ford would launch the Orion ute alongside the sedan. AU and BA ute were launched the same time as sedan.

[One Drone]

I think you hit a nail on the head acosta32. Statesmens/Caprices are sold in China as well..

[JBomb3000]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Only an export market could save the Fairlane.

exactly, and with ford US flogging the puss bucket crown victoria into export markets around the world the chance of that happening is slim IMHO

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

True, but the earlier high selling LTD's had the same dealers selling them as well as Falcon 500's didn't they. I guess things are different now and some people expect the higher service experience from a flagship model.

*Cough, cough* not only that, some people who buy FPV vehicles expect to be treated a little better as well. Now I will never say never, however, I can’t see myself buying another FPV in the near to distant future.

I do like the Fairlane G8, however, my FPV experience has put me off these things for a while.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Since there won't be a new Fairlane or wagon in the immediate future you have to assume Ford would launch the Orion ute alongside the sedan. AU and BA ute were launched the same time as sedan.

AU Utes came out in 99, where as the sedans were 98.

My guess has it that the Utes will come with Orion but will use the same tub that the AU / BA has, Just new doors / roof / front end.

[XR Martin]

Maybe they'll run the BA utes for another 10 years like with the XF? :

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Maybe they'll run the BA utes for another 10 years like with the XF? :

Dont be suprised, id say they will copy holden with the VE and the new ute will be 6 - 12 months after the sedan.

As for LWb and wagon they wont be happening.

[banarcus]

I'd say that Ford will release the ute with the sedan given that the ute is a good seller for FoMoCo.

[Gobes32]

My guess is that the ute and wagon will continue with current rear end treatment but an orion nose cone and interior.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by banarcus

I'd say that Ford will release the ute with the sedan given that the ute is a good seller for FoMoCo.

I hope so, i might be up for a ute when Orion comes out.

[The Stylist]

Originally Posted by acosta32

My guess is that the ute and wagon will continue with current rear end treatment but an orion nose cone and interior.

I hope not! The current wagon box already harks back to the EA Falcon and it looks absolutely crap. If they did that, there will be calls from the media to chuck it in a skip bin to save embarrassment.

[Gobes32]

But it costs Ford bugger all to do it and every car they sell, even if they sell in low volumes, is profit. There is no money in wagons and the territory is a far better car for the money than a wagon. Not everyone prefers a territory over a wagon but money talks and the other stuff walks.

[H4ZE]

When the first LTDs came into showrooms in the 70s, there was little they had in common bodywise to the lesser Fairlanes- guards, boot, bonnet, etc... Doors would have been the common denominator. I'd like to see the next LTD (not that we'd get one) be based on the fairlane as always, but be of a radically different design. And with the moniker standing for 'Lincoln Type Design' (and not 'Fairlane with new grille') it should live up to it's name again. Yes it would probably cost upwards of 100 grand to make, but I believe it could be a flagship Ford would be proud of.

[S3SR]

no amount of money will make a caprice an LTD! :P

keep the LTD, sell for cost (they sell what 10 a year..im sure that wont hurt but will help increase FORD sales) but make the money back in lower model slightly higher priced Falcons...