Nice guys finish last??

[DOC]

Originally Posted by Heeno

well yes, that is what the world of business has tought me, but if its differant where you work then get me a job!

Cheers Heeno,
A few Q,s what type of role do you have now ? So far i think your teachers have been wrong then if this is how you have been taught, I have been selling fr 30+ years and also held many high level positions ( national sales manager roles in several companies selling big $ on a weekly basis ( 1/4 Mill ) and in that 30 years i would have sold in excess of 100 M + easy and probably a lot more than that if took the time to add it up. But never once have a done wrong by a customer in fact i go out of my way to ensure i do my very best for them at all times.

In sales i have a simple line of thought ( when it comes to employing staff and i have run up to 500 + staff at 1 time ) and i meet all the know it all's sp to speak). are a monkey can sell something once anyone can do it and i meet a lot of people that do that and call themselves a sales person, and for some reason people think sales is a easy job, but a true pro will continue to do repeat sales with the same customers and believe me there is a skill needed and in addition if you do wrong by a customer you will have no hope of repeating not only future sales with that person but the people they know.

Regards
Pete

[Stav]

Originally Posted by xrgran

Nice guys don't come last. Intelligence and respect will always shine through. Tough guys end up lonely, and women don't want tough guys as there partners. They are normally shallow and conceited. We want real men.

Yes I totally agree.I am not talking about being a ratbag to innocent people... I am talking about someone like you, me and other people generally who taken for a ride by the unscupulous individuals who do not respect much.I think in those situations that we must get tougher to not get manipulated or duped. I think this is the pivotal point between a good outcome or bad outcome.It is here when we must protect ourselves and families.

For example ..if you are in woolies and you buy things.When you walk out you see that you have been overcharged by computer error for example. Many people walk out with the fear of not casing waves over this.
However if you do not complain then you set a precedent that these guys can make big profits on our weak will. So it is true that it can be done politely and ina civil way,but if you are not assertive about it they will treat you with less respect and worse ..it is true that you keep the civility by being quiet but it is at your loss.

And this is a one off real life example.

[Stav]

Today I was at the m4 motorway. I had alot of coins and aplogised to the lady.Because she saw that I was a "nice guy" she had a dig at me about the coins and that they were notin order as well.So I said to her that if she wanted 20 cents fora lolly!! She shut up and said thank you.

Nice guy finished first!!

[XRchic]

Part of growing up, Heeno, is realising that although some people cheat and lie their way to the top, you dont have to do that. Growing up, you will see the differences in successful people: the ones who are respected and have done well for themselves and just the ones who have done well (ie that are not popular and respected). You will pick it and then you will know what kind of people to model your behaviour on, for success.

I dont think tough guys are not real guys xrgran. I think someone can have more than one aspect to their personality and that toughness and kindness are not mutually exclusive. It is a biological thing with females that they are attracted to tough, strong possibly "bad boys" - it is the feeling that they give you that they can handle life, they can take care of you (not that this applies to us these days, but it used to and we still have part of that in us which is why we like big capable men) and they will fight for you. It is effectively the mentallity of the dominant male lion of the group - the alpha male if you will... compared to the beta males.

There are alpha males in human society too. Alpha males are often seen as tough, wilful, stubborn, wild, temperamental, intelligent, upfront, physically strong, cunning, etc etc... however, to be an alpha male would require some additional characteristics like adaptability, a kind nature and an understanding of people.

What I am getting at is that the successful AND respectable people are likely to be of the alpha variety - and the successful, less popular ones are similar but just lacking the people skills, empathy and kind nature that the alpha males do.

So my point is that you can be tough and strong and work hard to get your way, make tough decisions when required, take risks that others might not take... but at the same time such a bloke can be kind, thoughtful, honest and play the game by the rules - hard, but by the rules. Nothing wrong with that.

Success these days is a thing that is hard to measure anyway. Is someone who has a wife and kids whom he loves to death, but has a lower than average income still not successful in life? If he is happy, then he is. Success is about the ability to achieve your goals - YOUR goals, not other people's. So if you are happy with what you have, then consider yourself successful, even if others dont.

Success is also the ability to be happy and get what you want out of life without having to change yourself to any large extent, not where it matters. If you can achieve your goals and still be the person inside that you want to be, then its all good!

I know a fair bit about being the underdog, in many contexts. I really did think that the nice guys/gals always lose and to get anywhere I should become a like all the other chics I knew who got their way in life... but I have come to realise that what goes around, comes around.

I have managed to acheive most of the goals in my life (the important ones I mean). I have got two fantastic, smart, nice, healthy kids, I have the best partner I could ever wish for, we are not broke and we have just bought our first house. I have a decent job after studying for so long. And I havent had to change to get it - I just had to be patient and wait instead. I am still the person I always was, just a bit tougher maybe (meaning I can handle the sh*t that is thrown at me these days) and more resilient.

But I can sleep at night, knowing that I have gotten most of the things I have wanted out of life, that I am happy and content, and I got there by playing hard but fair.

Useless, what has happened to make you think this? I hope everything is ok with you!

Cheers

Jac

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by xrgran

Nice guys don't come last. Intelligence and respect will always shine through. Tough guys end up lonely, and women don't want tough guys as there partners. They are normally shallow and conceited. We want real men.

An ******* with no intelligence and no respect for anyone managed to f**k a perfectly good friendship/sorta relationship with sum chick and me. Anyone who knows me says im intelligent, a good guy, and generally care about people. It so funny cause she still wants me just wont admit that she was wrong.

She only did it to hurt me in the first place for some reason which i dont know. I think she is finally realizing that my feelings for her were unconditional unlike his. Well guess what she comes back she gets the door. I am a nice guy but i wont be walked all over. So i guess it does show through eventually but by then its sometimes too late.

Same with work. Someone trys to rip me off ill be nice about it but i wont let them get away with it. "Customer always right".. pfft so not true lol.

So i guess i do finish first sometimes. I want to be the person who doesnt screw people over because i dont like it so why give it out.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by DOC

Cheers Heeno,
A few Q,s what type of role do you have now ?

Regards
Pete

i work in the engineering field, in a nice office with 2 yes 2 computer screens. i don't sell stuff, but givin the chance i'd go back to shopfitting or labouring anyday, yea it tough work but you don't have to put up with the "adults" trying to back stab you and acting like lil children who's just had the lolly pop stolen. it is simply pathetic

[Heeno]

prime example, when i started out here another guy started the same day as me doing the same role same pay everything... anyway i never left my desk for like 4 months, always did my work till it was all finished, never chatted up the receptionest, this other guy did all those things even turned up to work late everyday and spent more time flirting then working. anyway as it happens i get left where i am while he goes off getting all the things i wanted, new computer, teaching cad & revit, flying around australia, new fat salary....everything i wanted and worked for he got...how did he do it, by being a dishonest lil ***** and going behind my back making up sh!t about me to my supervisors...

sorry but i think you need to be dishonest and ruthless, i tryed being the nice guy and all it got me was nothing!!

[Stav]

Originally Posted by XRchic

But I can sleep at night, knowing that I have gotten most of the things I have wanted out of life, that I am happy and content, and I got there by playing hard but fair.

Useless, what has happened to make you think this? I hope everything is ok with you!

Cheers

Jac

Hi Jac..your post was pretty spot on. A few things have compelled me to start this post.
I think that I am trying to steer people to realise that its always good to be good but passion in terms of controlling events and not letting things go by to the types of people who I have talked about.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by useless

Hi Jac..your post was pretty spot on. A few things have compelled me to start this post.
I think that I am trying to steer people to realise that its always good to be good but passion in terms of controlling events and not letting things go by to the types of people who I have talked about.

I knew there was something behind this thread. You generally ask questions like these when something has happened.
Whatever it is - don't worry! I will sing happy songs to cheer you up

/me walks off to get microphone, glitter wig, some boots, a cowboy hat for entertainment, leather pants (or maybe not : ) oh and I'll need a stand for that mic too I think.......

[GRNKPR]

/me walks off to get microphone, glitter wig, some boots, a cowboy hat for entertainment, leather pants (or maybe not : ) oh and I'll need a stand for that mic too I think.......[/QUOTE]


Leather pants wig sounds like a date :thebirds: :thebirds: :thebirds: :thebirds:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Part of growing up, Heeno, is realising that although some people cheat and lie their way to the top, you dont have to do that. Growing up, you will see the differences in successful people: the ones who are respected and have done well for themselves and just the ones who have done well (ie that are not popular and respected). You will pick it and then you will know what kind of people to model your behaviour on, for success.

It is sad Heeno, that at your age, you are so negative in your outlook. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, as you have obviously been unfairly treated in your workplace, and yes, after working at a large grocery chain, I know first hand how the younger employees are treated. gran

I dont think tough guys are not real guys xrgran. I think someone can have more than one aspect to their personality and that toughness and kindness are not mutually exclusive. It is a biological thing with females that they are attracted to tough, strong possibly "bad boys" - it is the feeling that they give you that they can handle life, they can take care of you (not that this applies to us these days, but it used to and we still have part of that in us which is why we like big capable men) and they will fight for you. It is effectively the mentallity of the dominant male lion of the group - the alpha male if you will... compared to the beta males.

Hi Jac. I did not explain myself very well at all with that statement. Generalising here, 'we' want a man that can handle any situation thrust upon him, stand up for his/our rights, yet at the same time show a gentler side, be the bread winner if needed, loving father, caring son

There are alpha males in human society too. Alpha males are often seen as tough, wilful, stubborn, wild, temperamental, intelligent, upfront, physically strong, cunning, etc etc... however, to be an alpha male would require some additional characteristics like adaptability, a kind nature and an understanding of people.

What I am getting at is that the successful AND respectable people are likely to be of the alpha variety - and the successful, less popular ones are similar but just lacking the people skills, empathy and kind nature that the alpha males do.

So my point is that you can be tough and strong and work hard to get your way, make tough decisions when required, take risks that others might not take... but at the same time such a bloke can be kind, thoughtful, honest and play the game by the rules - hard, but by the rules. Nothing wrong with that.

Success these days is a thing that is hard to measure anyway. Is someone who has a wife and kids whom he loves to death, but has a lower than average income still not successful in life? If he is happy, then he is. Success is about the ability to achieve your goals - YOUR goals, not other people's. So if you are happy with what you have, then consider yourself successful, even if others dont.

Right again Jac. Too many times people judge their success/wealth by comparison of what others have. To me success is having a loving, happy, stable relationship with my family, a roof over our heads, grandchildren whom are healthy and happy, my parents still being with me on earth, good friends and enough money to be comfortable and good health. Each and every one of us has a different outlook on what we want and need from life, as we are all individuals. We cannot and should not base our needs on what another person wants or has. Unfortunately this does happen.

Success is also the ability to be happy and get what you want out of life without having to change yourself to any large extent, not where it matters. If you can achieve your goals and still be the person inside that you want to be, then its all good!

I know a fair bit about being the underdog, in many contexts. I really did think that the nice guys/gals always lose and to get anywhere I should become a like all the other chics I knew who got their way in life... but I have come to realise that what goes around, comes around.

I have managed to acheive most of the goals in my life (the important ones I mean). I have got two fantastic, smart, nice, healthy kids, I have the best partner I could ever wish for, we are not broke and we have just bought our first house. I have a decent job after studying for so long. And I havent had to change to get it - I just had to be patient and wait instead. I am still the person I always was, just a bit tougher maybe (meaning I can handle the sh*t that is thrown at me these days) and more resilient.

But I can sleep at night, knowing that I have gotten most of the things I have wanted out of life, that I am happy and content, and I got there by playing hard but fair.

Useless, what has happened to make you think this? I hope everything is ok with you!

Cheers

Jac

Yes it is a nice feeling when you get to a certain age and know that you have played by the rules and been fair and just. I also have toughened up and mind you, this has only happened in the last few years, but I still always do my utmost to be the best person that I know I can be, not only to be proud of myself but so that my family are as well.

[MITCHAY]

On the topic of the people that cheat their way to the top to do well. I dont really think respect and popularity are any of the things they were after in the first place which is why i dont think they would care if they are respected or popular otherwise they wouldnt have cheated their way to the top.

More often than not these types of people are materialistic so money is the only thing that matters to them otherwise they would work for it honestly.

Money can buy you anything thats been made, It can get you phoney friends, it can get you a root but in the end they have just used you and i dont know anyone who likes to be used.

I bet you will find these people believe money will buy them everything but at the end of the day if they have friends based on the fact they have money then when the money is gone so will be the friends.

[GRNKPR]

A guy once said to me"" Money cant by you happiness but it can buy you a boat big enough to pull up besdie it""

money the root of all evil wouldnt be a different ball game if we didnt need it

[Captain Stubing]

Well said, Mitchay!

I think the people who are right for the job don't get the job, because they are too modest to talk themselves up.
The bullcrap artists who always get ahead usually lose respect from those beneath them, but somehow remain the 'golden child' to those above.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

Amoney the root of all evil wouldnt be a different ball game if we didnt need it

Money is not the root of ALL EVIL its a fact if we shared it all evenly within 12 months it would be right back where it started.

I put to you money can be and is used for good, if people with money did not use it to employ people so they could also enjoy a good lifestyle, or they did not spend up big on cars houses holidays where would all the spin of come from for other to enjoy.

You will also find most people with money also contribute in large ways to charities making life better for all of us.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by xrgran

I also have toughened up and mind you, this has only happened in the last few years, but I still always do my utmost to be the best person that I know I can be, not only to be proud of myself but so that my family are as well.

Thats it xrgran.

Krissy ..it has been the slowdown from my smashup about a year and a half ago. I have slowed down (because i had to)and been mowed down by certain individuals who most of us would not give the time of day.Now that my energies in mind and body are starting to peak again its time to do what I do best .Not be put down or seconded by bastard atttudes.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by useless

Thats it xrgran.

Krissy ..it has been the slowdown from my smashup about a year and a half ago. I have slowed down (because i had to)and been mowed down by certain individuals who most of us would not give the time of day.Now that my energies in mind and body are starting to peak again its time to do what I do best .Not be put down or seconded by bastard atttudes.

Don't beat yourself up over the attitudes of other's and their dealings. At the end of the day you can hold your head up high whereas 'they' can't and they know it (what you see is all an act) and people that deal in 'those' ways will be bitten by Karma my friend.

You on the other hand can look at your life and your family PROUDLY and know you've done it all with integrity! And that's all that matters. Worrying about how other's get ahead in life wont make matters any different ... they will still deal the way they do and you will still be you, so why stress about it?

Most, not all, but most of those "nice guys that finish last" are the one's without confidence, without self respect and who often harbour a small jealousy for the ruthless one's that do get ahead .. they finish last. The other type of nice guy - the ones that have self respect etc dont finish last because by doing things the decent, honest and right way - they are content with where they finish. So finishing last but content doesn't sound too bad aye?!

Stav, the weight of the world cannot and does not rest on your shoulder's so stop trying to fix everyone and everything that you find wrong in this world. You'll only end up stressing about it for nothing and it's just not worth it my friend. Live your life contently and be happy and let other's be and do what they want. Don't allow anyone to make you feel like you're something you're not! At the end of the day, you can look at yourself, your wife and your kids and know that you've done it all with honesty and that's all that should matter!

Now, if none of that makes sense LOL then re-read it until it does. I know what I'm trying to say just not always good at expressing it in words.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

Leather pants wig sounds like a date :thebirds: :thebirds: :thebirds: :thebirds:

A date would involve a whip :Up_to_som

[GRNKPR]

Originally Posted by Fairmont_Krissy

A date would involve a whip :Up_to_som

: HOW MANY :