New car safety and its ramifications

[prydey]

half the people on the road in newer cars (possibly more than half) wouldn't even know the full extent of the safety features of their cars, so how can they possibly be influenced by them to drive less cautiously.

to suggest people adjust their driving depending on the level of safety features in their car is laughable.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I have no idea what you think that will achieve. People of all ages are involved in accidents, including those taught in those old cars which you believe will improve a persons skills. My old man who has been driving for 20+ years longer than me has had more accidents in his 40 years of driving than I've had in my 22 years. I've never had an accident. He's had 6 or 7 that I can remember.

Learning to drive in an older car does not make you a superior driver. Sure they have bad brakes, terrible suspension and poor handling and you learn some skills just getting behind the wheel, but driving those cars do not make you a better driver than someone driving a current model car with a load more torque and horse power. I believe it takes more skill to handle some cars on our roads today which are modern. Just look at the power output we are seeing with some of the performance machines compared to the cars from an earlier era.

Yes so how many accidents will you have in the next 20 years lol

It may just be that your a better driver than your dad but you are only 2 people in how many thousands of drivers out there.

I am not so sure if all the cars 30 or 40 years ago had no power lol

I myself had 3 Holden Monaro's with rebuilt 308's & 327's

I also had a 351 or 2 & used to use all that they had being young & silly back then.

I guess the question is for me does driving cars these days with all the advances over years give people less driving skill than 30 or 40 years ago driving cars back then along with the roads we had back then also & not just learning to drive in old cars etc

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

I am not so sure if all the cars 30 or 40 years ago had no power lol

I myself had 3 Holden Monaro's with rebuilt 308's & 327's

I also had a 351 or 2

a standard falcon xt would blow a standard example of any of those cars into the weeds.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by WMD351

With the aim of improving driver attitudes, I'd like to suggest that all cars have a foot long screwdriver protruding from the center of the steering wheel with the tip positioned one inch away from our chests.
I believe this would improve driver attention to the task at hand immeasurably.

It probably would be a very effective way of increasing road safety. I remember seeing a video on road safety and it had an expert from the UK suggest a similar thing, the only way to really get peoples attention and make them take care is to mount a bayonet in the centre of the steering wheel pointing right at them.

[wrongwaynorris]

The basic problem in this country is we teach people how to pass a test we do not now nor have we ever taught people how to drive hence the appaulingly low standard of driving on our roads .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

It probably would be a very effective way of increasing road safety. I remember seeing a video on road safety and it had an expert from the UK suggest a similar thing, the only way to really get peoples attention and make them take care is to mount a bayonet in the centre of the steering wheel pointing right at them.

I heard of a similar one where they also advocated packing 50 kilos of explosives inside the front bar aswell as the spike on the steering wheel . Extreme but I guarantee it would dramatically drop the road toll . For every person it killed it would save immesurably more .

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by WMD351

New cars today, through improved handling, braking, air bags, abs, dsc, etc. create a much larger margin for driver error than the first car I started driving 25 years ago.

I agree. If I drove a new Falcon in the 60s the way I drive my FG, I'd be cruching people's rear ends or spinning of wet roads backwards. Thank God for ABS, DSC, modern tyres, brakes, suspensions etc.

[AussieAV]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I agree. If I drove a new Falcon in the 60s the way I drive my FG, I'd be cruching people's rear ends or spinning of wet roads backwards. Thank God for ABS, DSC, modern tyres, brakes, suspensions etc.

Not quite sure what you are saying here Resurrection. Is It

a) You drive at the limit all the time, even in traffic, and rely on the modern safety/handling features to keep you on the road, or,

b) The cars of the 60s wouldn't be up to the normal demands of driving today. Because of the extra capabilities of modern cars, drivers as a whole have become used to driving harder.

Not being funny, its just that you're comment could be taken both ways and I wanted to clarify.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

a standard falcon xt would blow a standard example of any of those cars into the weeds.

I never said they would not just that as an example these older cars did have some power as the original comment was that cars back then had no power at all.

Also as I said mine & many others had worked over (fully rebuilt with performance parts) engines that would have been up with GTHO phase 3 power outputs as an example

And some of that time would have blown your XT example into the weeds with the mods & superchargers etc (can your XT do 11 or 12 sec quarter mile runs)

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by prydey

half the people on the road in newer cars (possibly more than half) wouldn't even know the full extent of the safety features of their cars, so how can they possibly be influenced by them to drive less cautiously.

to suggest people adjust their driving depending on the level of safety features in their car is laughable.

You are kind of missing the point. Its not that the driver knows what the car has or hasnt got in terms of safety features. Their driving style will adapt to it. Just by the feel of the car, the brakes etc. They wouldnt know themselves if they had to jump back into a car without it. My girlfriend is a good example. Her everyday car is a BA futura with ABS. She drove my 80 series landcruiser once and locked the wheels up coming up to a roundabout. We also have a 1962 XL Falcon. The first time she drove it she nearly ran up the **** of the car in front. Locked the wheels up expecting it to stop like her BA. I just think some people get into a very scary frame of mind thinking theyre safe in their 5 star saftey rated car. They become almost braindead when behind the wheel. As has been said, you are very disconnected from the road these days. New cars are so smooth, so quiet, cruise control etc. No wonder its easy to become distracted or fall asleep. All it takes is a billboard or two...

[FgNewbie]

Have advancements in car safety led to a reduction in the competence of drivers as time goes on?

When the advancements in car safety creates blind spots or reduced vision to allow room for fitment of airbags, do you blame the driver or the designer?

In the old days you could easily see out of the car in most directions. With the trend for small rear windows and bigger pillars, even a competent driver can / will make basic errors of judgement.

The majority of my family scare the crap out of me on the road. Except for one, they were taught how to obtain a licence, not how to drive. They will have crashes regardless of safety features, it is only the magnitude that changes.

I also advocate better driving education relative to all vehicles. There can be a downside. In my late teens and early 20s I was regularly driving interstate to do some form of driving course in cars and trucks. The main ones being car craft, road craft, advanced, defensive. In retrospect, in some ways it made me MORE DANGEROUS at the time. Especially on the trip home.

I also believe, regardless of advancements in car safety, driver error will go up and driving standards in suburbia will go down as the list of distractions continue to grow. (More signs, frequently changing speed zones, traffic management ie concrete slabs, humps, watching the speedo not the road, etc).

Put me in anything old and I drive 20 years younger. Put me in my new Ford lounge chair and wake me when I start snoring.

[EDManual]

I have some funny situations:

Drive a front wheel drive car hard (flatout sliding all the time) for a few years, then hop into a rear wheel drive and try and do the same (even though before your fwd you were a great rwd driver). Guaranteed crash first drive.

Drive any car with all the stability gadgets and use them all the time, and then hop into something without them and go just as hard. Again guaranteed crash first drive. (erhmm)

;-) hmm

Theres a lesson in that :-)

Whatever you drive, you have to get used to it over some time (ie, months). I dont think it matters much if its all the stability gadgets and getting into one without all that or just a different car.


(all (and my only crashes refer to the above 2 examples) crashes with me have been to do with dirt rally driving)

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I have some funny situations:

Drive a front wheel drive car hard (flatout sliding all the time) for a few years, then hop into a rear wheel drive and try and do the same (even though before your fwd you were a great rwd driver). Guaranteed crash first drive.

Drive any car with all the stability gadgets and use them all the time, and then hop into something without them and go just as hard. Again guaranteed crash first drive. (erhmm)

;-) hmm

Theres a lesson in that :-)

Whatever you drive, you have to get used to it over some time (ie, months). I dont think it matters much if its all the stability gadgets and getting into one without all that or just a different car.


(all (and my only crashes refer to the above 2 examples) crashes with me have been to do with dirt rally driving)

haha your avatar suits your post :P

[Keepleft]

The Commonwealth, states and territories push the 'defensive' driver components, even seeking to correct identified 'parental errors' in pupils.

KeysToDrive program is national, and it offers a free driving lesson to P candidates.
http://www.keys2drive.com.au/

Even the state driver handbooks, and the computer graphic interaction tests are focused on defensive driving. It is NOT the same, as say for a driver candidate prior to 2005, 90's, 80's and earlier.

Agencies seek control over the young applicants for three years, hence those P1, P2 license categories now used nationally and adopted from NSW, and in turn - from a European program! To do with brain development and attitude, etc, blah blah blah gasp.

That said, political correct, nanny-state stuff which can really damage an otherwise worthwhile licensing system - is here to say. To change this annoying aspect requires a state roads minister with balls who is prepared to defend himself, or herself against the sitting roads agency staffers of 'experts', and with inter government protocol on how things are done in 'reform'.

[Pinch]

I do agree WMD351, but I believe that people not only rely on their own car's safety features to render them not-dead, but also rely on the safety features (and reaction times and skill) of other drivers and their cars not to render them dead from their own actions.

I often see driving in Sydney from 'those in charge of vehicles' (the term drivers does not adequately categorise them) who rely soley on the skill of other drivers and the safety features of other drivers' cars to avoid colliding with them as they do monumentally stupid things.

I think people operate their vehicles in this way for a number of reasons, all encompasing faith in modern vehcile safety being one, but simply not treating driving as a life and death process - every time you turn the key. One may feed the other. Doing something stupid years ago got you killed, now it just makes the other driver use the now-available tools to avoid them. People are both arrogant and ignorant on the road - because to them everything is more important than concentrating properly on the task at hand. Either that, or they are so narcisstic that they always need to be first in traffic and to hell with anyone else and what action those drivers need to take to avoid them.

In Sydney people will do whatever it takes to get one car ahead, no matter who is already on the road or in 'their way'.

Recently a car, knowing full well that their lane was ending changed lanes INTO me. Not cutting me off - we were side by side. They knew I was there, I was not in their blind spot and it was a clear day and I had full beam lights on. Now being in a rental car, and knowing that $3300 was about to go missing for months from my Amex while it all got sorted out through travel insurance and then recouping from at-fault driver, I took severe evasive action. This reinjured my wife's neck and she was taken to hospital the next day and was off work for a week.

While I succeeded in avoiding a property accident, it was clearly dangerous (for my wife) for me to do so. So I have learned a valuable lesson from this. Those now relying on my (and my car's) ability to avoid their stupidity may now do so at their own financial peril.

Many other examples of course, many unfortunately repeated in the multitude of threads on here about the stupidity of motorists (again the term driver deliberately avoided).

Too easy licencing (to avoid provision of expensive per-capita proper public transport in Australia), combined with increasing personal arrogance and selfishness may lay claim to a lot.

Unfortunately I cannot lay claim to the answer.