Au xr8 220kw ute - fact or fiction

[CFOUR]

you want the maf 20-30% larger than the throttle body, thats why the lightning 90mm maf works so well with both tbs. unless you go slot maf which causes less of a restriction.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by CFOUR

You sound super myopic sox. The R&D is done and has been for years. The information posed above are facts not assumptions. And again as stated, the smaller throttle body is not restrictive until the restrictive maf has been replaced.

You're a funny guy.

So what R&D have you done?
You've put a few 220's in S1 & S1.5's, and then you determined the 200 is better. Right.

Of course, what was I thinking, it's that massive cam the 200 has.
Oh, and the smaller TB.
And possibly the lack of any portmatching.

Yep, that would sure do it.


The facts are, the basic engine is identical, except for a tiny difference in camshaft profile and some very minor port matching.

There is no reliability difference.

The 220 produces more power than the 200. Irionicly one has 220kw, the other has 200kw, even I managed to work that out.

As for potential, they actually have much the same potential, because they're the same engine.

The ever so slightly bigger cam in the 200 gives it no advantage, as few people would use either cam in a serious performance upgrade, because, they're so small.

The 220 nudges ahead simply because of -
The 70mm TB however has plenty room for considerably larger power gains.
The oil cooler will help when making this extra power.


You reckon what you've done is R&D, yet I'm supposed to be the dumb ***.

Go home will ya.

[CFOUR]

Originally Posted by Sox

You're a funny guy.

So what R&D have you done?.

you clearly don't know me, my history with au v8's or what i do for a living.

Originally Posted by Sox

You've put a few 220's in S1 & S1.5's, and then you determined the 200 is better. Right.

as with the 2.25" exhaust issue last week you are wrong and your mind is not going to be changed, that is fine.
as you've already decided not to listen to me, I will not educate you further.

if you'd like to be corrected again by somebody who is more credible than myself I suggest you ask the resident au v8 expert XH5LWEPN (jeff from streetbuilt racing) or if he doesn't have the time to repeatedly tell you the same thing "bottledup" seems to have a lot of patience with repeating himself to help people.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by CFOUR

you clearly don't know me, my history with au v8's or what i do for a living.

That goes both ways.

[Mr Hardware]

[BOTTLEDUP]

The 220 & 250 heads (I'll refer to as T3 from here because lazy) are one and the same, and different from the 200kw heads, which are just plain Jane Explorer spec GT40Ps. The T3 head was developed as a local cost effective alternative to the Y303 used on the T1 TS & some T2s.

They were mildly worked over by Yella Terra, using a custom set of Ferrea valves with larger head diameters, a basic cnc cut & blend into the bowl area and a revised valve spring sourced from Crow. Finally they were milled 0.020" to up the compression and the lower intakes "hand portmatched" to the heads.

There have been numerous cases of the springs failing, both on T3 strokers and on 220kw XR8s, I am yet to see a single spring failure on a standard GT40P head.

Regardless we are getting sidetracked, and once again the AU room is turning into a kindergarten playground with name calling & insults.


IMHO the people who say there was/is a factory 220kw ute are the same type who are convinced Ford released an XY GT ute...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by CFOUR

you want the maf 20-30% larger than the throttle body, thats why the lightning 90mm maf works so well with both tbs. unless you go slot maf which causes less of a restriction.

I do agree that you want to have a MAF bigger than the TB but to say it would be a restriction is stretching the truth. Especially with the crappy factory airbox. Hence why Tickford ditched it for the T3 and used the Cobra pod.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

The 220 & 250 heads (I'll refer to as T3 from here because lazy) are one and the same, and different from the 200kw heads, which are just plain Jane Explorer spec GT40Ps. The T3 head was developed as a local cost effective alternative to the Y303 used on the T1 TS & some T2s.

They were mildly worked over by Yella Terra, using a custom set of Ferrea valves with larger head diameters, a basic cnc cut & blend into the bowl area and a revised valve spring sourced from Crow. Finally they were milled 0.020" to up the compression and the lower intakes "hand portmatched" to the heads.

There have been numerous cases of the springs failing, both on T3 strokers and on 220kw XR8s, I am yet to see a single spring failure on a standard GT40P head.

Regardless we are getting sidetracked, and once again the AU room is turning into a kindergarten playground with name calling & insults.


IMHO the people who say there was/is a factory 220kw ute are the same type who are convinced Ford released an XY GT ute...

For the record, and you should know me better than that, I only fired up because my intelligence was attacked.
I always prefer to play the ball, not the man.

In any case CFOUR has kindly apologised via PM and we're continuing the discussion there.

[CFOUR]

my bad on getting a bit firey guys its out of character, I've been crazy busy and a little heavy on the "sauce" lately.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I do agree that you want to have a MAF bigger than the TB but to say it would be a restriction is stretching the truth. Especially with the crappy factory airbox. Hence why Tickford ditched it for the T3 and used the Cobra pod.

Originally Posted by me in discussion with sox

"the factory 65mm throttle body flows 650cfm the factory maf only flows 606cfm, the 70mm tickford throttlebody flows 815 but cant breath with the factory maf in place".

[xagsjoe]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

The 220 & 250 heads (I'll refer to as T3 from here because lazy) are one and the same, and different from the 200kw heads, which are just plain Jane Explorer spec GT40Ps. The T3 head was developed as a local cost effective alternative to the Y303 used on the T1 TS & some T2s.

They were mildly worked over by Yella Terra, using a custom set of Ferrea valves with larger head diameters, a basic cnc cut & blend into the bowl area and a revised valve spring sourced from Crow. Finally they were milled 0.020" to up the compression and the lower intakes "hand portmatched" to the heads.

There have been numerous cases of the springs failing, both on T3 strokers and on 220kw XR8s, I am yet to see a single spring failure on a standard GT40P head.

What difference is there other than the stroke and manifold 220-250kw engines? I have just got my first AU 220 and am curious to learn

[Sox]

Originally Posted by xagsjoe

What difference is there other than the stroke and manifold 220-250kw engines? I have just got my first AU 220 and am curious to learn

You mentioned the stroke and the manifold, so main studs, main stud girdle, slightly different cam, 82mm TB, bigger MAF, more fuel pressure, ceramic coated headers, and a tickled ECU map.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by CFOUR

my bad on getting a bit firey guys its out of character, I've been crazy busy and a little heavy on the "sauce" lately.


Originally Posted by me in discussion with sox -
"the factory 65mm throttle body flows 650cfm the factory maf only flows 606cfm, the 70mm tickford throttlebody flows 815 but cant breath with the factory maf in place".

That's not right.

The earlier E series 58mm MAF flows 606cfm.

The 70mm AU MAF flows 815cfm.

All AU V8's have the 70mm MAF.


As for AU TB's, the 65mm flows 664cfm, and the 70mm flows 787cfm.

Which also shows the standard AU MAF is not a restriction for the 70mm Tickford TB.

[Bill M]

For those genuinely interested, I wrote to David Morley of Unique cars fame regarding the 220 Windsor in AU XR8s. Some you who have been around Aussie cars long enough will know who Morley is. He replied to my question in the current issue and while not offering much to confirm yay or nay there are some high profile motoring identities associated with Unique cars and I am hoping a credible former Tickford employee or similar can provide an answer on reading the mag.
cheers
Bill.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Bill M

For those genuinely interested, I wrote to David Morley of Unique cars fame regarding the 220 Windsor in AU XR8s. Some you who have been around Aussie cars long enough will know who Morley is. He replied to my question in the current issue and while not offering much to confirm yay or nay there are some high profile motoring identities associated with Unique cars and I am hoping a credible former Tickford employee or similar can provide an answer on reading the mag.
cheers
Bill.

Ha - read many a story by Mr Morley that have been fairly off centre with facts. I would not trust him to answer a question like this, then again Ford are worse than a small town accountant for record keeping.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Ha - read many a story by Mr Morley that have been fairly off centre with facts. I would not trust him to answer a question like this, then again Ford are worse than a small town accountant for record keeping.

He didn't answer it, only stated the obvious factory specs at the time. He offered no conclusive opinion either way on the 220 Windsors and was even handed about it.
As far as "off centre" with facts he has been accurate and open to correction when proved wrong from my long time observations.

[auxr]

Well, bit off topic, but for the record just love my AU2 220 Windsor with original MAF

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by auxr

Well, bit off topic, but for the record just love my AU2 220 Windsor with original MAF

Is it a ute?

[auxr]

Originally Posted by Blue Shadow

Is it a ute?

No - but it does sit next to an original silver fox XY GT ute.

[BOTTLEDUP]

Originally Posted by Sox

You mentioned the stroke and the manifold, so main studs, main stud girdle, slightly different cam, 82mm TB, bigger MAF, more fuel pressure, ceramic coated headers, and a tickled ECU map.

As mentioned here, though I thought that the 200 & 220s got ceramic headers as well? Or did they simply get the non coated versions of the T-series pipes? My T1 has the same ceramic coated headers fitted to the T3s.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

As mentioned here, though I thought that the 200 & 220s got ceramic headers as well? Or did they simply get the non coated versions of the T-series pipes? My T1 has the same ceramic coated headers fitted to the T3s.

Not sure about the T's, but my 220 had non coated headers, but same design as my P250, which were coated.

Maybe the T's in 5L got coated headers too?

I don't remember what the original question was?

[Xdesp80]

How can I determine if a head is a legitimate 220 head? Not a 200 head being passed off as a 220.

Bigger Stainless valves? what's the dead set give away? Any specific things to look for... Different roller rockers and springs?


Cheers

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Xdesp80

How can I determine if a head is a legitimate 220 head? Not a 200 head being passed off as a 220.

Bigger Stainless valves? what's the dead set give away? Any specific things to look for... Different roller rockers and springs?


Cheers

Bigger valves will be the surest way.

[Xdesp80]

Originally Posted by Sox

Bigger valves will be the surest way.

Thanks Sox
1.94 & 1.6?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Xdesp80

Thanks Sox
1.94 & 1.6?

I think the exhaust are actually 1.55.

[mcfly94]

Yep 1.555, should be able to see Ferrea on valve stem tip

[Xdesp80]

Excellent thanks.
As for roller rockers Yella Terra ? Silver

Not anodised blue ? Other brand

That's if they haven't been changed in the past...

[BOTTLEDUP]

They will also be painted black, rockers will be Yella Terra Street Terras

[Xdesp80]

One last question
Are any of you aware of the camshaft specs used in the 195kW fairlane by Tickford?

Cheers

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by auxr

No - but it does sit next to an original silver fox XY GT ute.

Not sure if serious...

[BOTTLEDUP]

Originally Posted by Xdesp80

One last question
Are any of you aware of the camshaft specs used in the 195kW fairlane by Tickford?

Cheers

To my knowledge they got the same engine hardware as the EB GT, namely the GT40 heads, roller rockers and the same camshaft. The slightly lower power output may be due to exhaust design or tune revisions to suit the LWB car.