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05-11-2010, 12:57 AM | #31 | |||
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05-11-2010, 01:18 AM | #32 | |||
let it burn
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05-11-2010, 02:05 AM | #33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I'm about to step on a $360 return flight to KL on MAS tonight, fingers crossed of course hehe |
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05-11-2010, 09:24 AM | #34 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
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What looks to have happened is an intermediate pressure turbine disc failed with explosive force, the uncontained failure coming through the casing with such force as to allow turbine blades to pierce the front of the wing, disable the leading edge slats as well as puncture the fuel tank. As much as this was a rolls royce problem and has happened before, scarebus still are crap for the fact that there's only thrust reverse on engines 2 & 3 (to save weight). Without leading edge slats and reverse thrust, this could have ended badly.
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Last edited by ltd; 31-03-2011 at 12:05 PM. |
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05-11-2010, 09:41 AM | #35 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Mmmm, the ethnic guys at work always flew Qantas when going back home for a holiday.
I asked them "why don't you fly Alitalia, Olympic etc". The reply was, when you fly Qantas " I can leave my rosary beads home" |
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05-11-2010, 09:55 AM | #36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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05-11-2010, 09:57 AM | #37 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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That second image is scary. Take a look at the Concorde incident to see what a ruptured wing that is on fire does to an aircraft, it brings it down.
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05-11-2010, 10:07 AM | #38 | |||
N/A all the way
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Yes it does save weight too, whay would you add unnecessary weight?
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05-11-2010, 10:29 AM | #39 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
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What airbus provide as design weight and then later production weight, are two vastly different numbers. For certification the brakes have to be strong enough to perform rejected take offs; but this test always destroys a set of brakes, wheels and tyres. Further, it also means that the aircraft uses up most of the runway. What do you think will happen when you're on a wet runway, or with crosswinds? Further, what would you be able to do if you lost hydraulics like QF32, had no leading edge slats, minimal flaps and a busted engine? Rely on brakes? Don't think so. Just imagine if you will; situation the same as QF32 but with a fire where the wingtank was pierced so you had to get down immediately; no slats, maximum fuel and no chance to dump. Disaster. Now add, wet runway or loss of hydro's; you'll make OJH the golfcart look pale in comparison. Nope, there's a reason EVERY other aircraft has reverse thrust on ALL their engines; you can't always rely on adhesion of tyres to stop you, and if you're in an emergency where you're forced to land before you can safely shed weight by dumping fuel, you'll certainly sheer the landing gear off trying to stop 400 plus tonnes. Airbus simply fiddled with the margins trying to shave weight of an airframe which at the time the decision was taken was 14 tonnes overweight.
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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05-11-2010, 11:08 AM | #40 | ||
The Origional, The Best
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LTD, i always thought the 380 didn't have reverse thrust on 1 and 4 to avoid blowing FOD into the intake on those slightly narrower runways it visits?
I am surprised they didn't blow any tyres
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05-11-2010, 11:28 AM | #41 | |||
See..Everybody Loves Ford
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05-11-2010, 11:44 AM | #42 | ||
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The A380 is an incredible aircraft to fly on, I'm sure this is just a minor hiccup. They design these things to fail safely. And boeing aircraft have had technical failure too.. anyone remember the BA B772 that crashed at heathrow a couple of years ago?
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05-11-2010, 12:49 PM | #43 | ||||
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As for the lack of reverse on 1 and 4, FOD is what it says on the brochure, weight is what the industry is aware of. They could have it as an option or for the company to decide its use but instead had to shed weight. Let's ask the push back guys how hard these big suckers are to manouvre.
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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05-11-2010, 02:03 PM | #44 | |||
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anyhow after a short lifespan they onsell the plane to 3rd world countries . in principle the worls is becoming plug and play , in every aspect . however in the sky this is risky risky . they say this is going to cost quantas $1000 000 000 . i say suck bees balls QANTAS. i bet it would've been cheaper to keep world class employees and maintenance . this is the world we live in today . some people up the top made a lot of beuarocratic bonuses for himself and top executives . short term gain for the people at the top , long term risk for everyone else . what do we get besides a little debate and whinging on talk back ?? in japan the blokes who made these decisions would be lined up and SHOT . I'LL ADD ; top engineers usually have 2 areas of expertise . like mechanical/ and electrical combined , guys like this usually master skills in all lateral areas over tradesmen . now i would love to see , accountant/engineer. being a boss , instead of business analysts. profits over safety and calculated risks are down right criminal offences in a moral point of view . i do not blame manufacturers for this , its accountants having authority over engineers . hopefully one day the world will change and skills combined with common sense comes back rather than profit and calculated risk. Last edited by DJM83; 07-11-2010 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Avoiding swear filter |
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05-11-2010, 02:39 PM | #45 | |||
Call me Spud
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I wasn't going to reply but had to. I was not saying that 747's have not had their issues, I was being subtle as to the fact I am a boeing fan, although in my defence I doubt a 747 run by Qanats has had as many issues in less than 3yrs of service as the A380's have. |
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05-11-2010, 02:55 PM | #46 | |||
let it burn
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Just as a heads up, accountants are a large group though. Some prefer longer term measures for calculating remuneration packages as incentive to take into consideration longer term effects of the choices management make while in control. There have been countless techniques used over the years attempting to ensure long term gains for the organisation including in its reputation or goodwill, the problem is there is always a way to game the system. I would also suggest, using engineers as decision makers would result in remuneration packages that they would also game, more responsibility requires more pay. Engineers arent a different species of human, and greed is a human trait. Watching that Flight Investigations show, there was one recently where the guy inspecting the plane had requested the tail screw (Im no plane tech) assembly be replaced, the next supervisor simply crossed it off. 4 months before its next major inspection, it flies head down into the ground. Similar occurences are a common theme in the show. Stuff like that is horrifying. Another episode was about a tail scrape on take off, the damaged area patched some 20 yrs earlier, but insufficiently which resulted in a catastrophic failure. Thats why I like the unions in Aus, they would refuse to patch it like that, strikes would be called which helps act as a check and balance on management. Its easier to fix it right the first time, and continually manage the plane with its defect in mind. Im not so sure about off-shore maintenance, long term. |
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05-11-2010, 03:17 PM | #47 | |||
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05-11-2010, 04:00 PM | #48 | |||
N/A all the way
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Amazed that people are having a go at the plane and bringing up the Boeng/Airbus rubbish. Yes its big and heavy, it is the biggest passenger plane in the world. But it took an engine having an uncontained failure, holes through the wing, fuel or hydraulic fluid pouring out, circled comfortably while it dumped fuel to get to a safe landing weight, then landed on brakes alone with half the slats and spoilers not operating, passengers saying it was one of the smoothest landings they have experienced - and people are having a go at it????????????? Well done to Qantas crew and Airbus. Rolls Royce have some investigation to do.
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05-11-2010, 04:49 PM | #49 | ||
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Gidday ltd, what was the reason Qantas went to the "Trent" Rolls Royce Engine? I have read other Airlines who use the A380, have opted for another engine manufacturer, will continue to fly the A380, with no problems?
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05-11-2010, 04:58 PM | #50 | |||
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Meah - they've all had their share of issues over the years - Boeing, Airbus, McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed. The relevant stakeholders just have to learn from them and ensure they are not repeated. Boeing 737 rudder problems causing 3 aircraft (on separate occasions) to spiral to the ground out of control at no notice in the US in the early 90's DC-10 cargo door issues and propoensity for the No 2 tail engine to explode causing hydraulic issues (ie United flight that crash landed at Sioux City Iowa in which most survived) Hawker Sidelley Trident - Stick Shaker issues causing the aircraft to stall midflight Any Russian built aircraft you care to mention I'd say this is a one off - the A380 will survive
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05-11-2010, 05:09 PM | #51 | |||
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05-11-2010, 05:13 PM | #52 | ||||
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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05-11-2010, 05:19 PM | #53 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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05-11-2010, 05:43 PM | #54 | ||||
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Last edited by Silver Ghia; 05-11-2010 at 05:49 PM. |
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05-11-2010, 05:52 PM | #55 | |||
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05-11-2010, 06:24 PM | #56 | |||
Getting it done.....
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Much like many incidents that happen in aviation despite the best efforts of designers you are only ever a few wierd combination of events away from beinga rock. The fuel leak, lack of spoillers and hydraulic issues are an attack on three main systems of the aircraft, and once you throw in the obvious engine failure *(and issues with no.1 also) then you realy are starting to reduce the crew's chances. It just makes things harder. As much as i agree with your reservatuiouns on the a380 (from early design specs right up to control systems/perf) i think the scenario you aluded to where a long long list of failures happen resulting in catastrophe is a tad unlikely. Even NASA had to leave off some safeguards ohn their designs due to the fact that multiple unconected events probably all won't happen at once (though that is hardly much consolation for the poor chap it does happen to). The bigger issue is the engine drama. Bad luck or not with the recent 747 RB211 incident as well, uncontained engine failures are bad news. You are seriously pushing your luck if you keep on having them. Sooner or later somethihg important will get hit from a flying piece of shrapnell and its curtains. Its frankly unaceptable in the modern age for engine failures to be so graphical uncontained as in this fashion, espeically on a new engine. Back in the 60/70s they had alot this sort of thing, but from teh 80s onwards they said that uncontained engine failure were so rare that most airlines would 'never have one on a new aircraft' and that most pilots starting there careers woudlnt have any engine failure at all (as in catatrophic) for their working life. Seems they got that a bit premature. Alot of engines have had theodd wobly, its well accepted. Early CF6s (which as you know are the engine i have on my simulator 763) went pop pretty often but there weren't too many uncontained ones from memory. My view is that modern fibre based nacelle's just arent' strong enough...that or they have skimped to much on their design RE weight saving. Designing engines to avoid failure is obviusly preferred, but i'd like to see proper containment of the failures when they happen. If people knew how fast those fans were spinning inside an aircraft jet engine they'd never fly again i suspect.....
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05-11-2010, 06:34 PM | #57 | ||
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I read in the paper today 30,000 rpm . is this correct?
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05-11-2010, 08:24 PM | #58 | |||
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GK
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05-11-2010, 08:29 PM | #59 | ||||
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05-11-2010, 08:38 PM | #60 | ||
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Here we go again.... really nothing to do with this incident, if you know anything about aircraft certification etc.
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