.0019%

[superyob]

Originally Posted by whitelion65

But what if the minority is CORRECT??
\
Plenty of examples throughout history where this is the case!!

(I'm thinking I'll regret replying to this thread!!!)

This is true, however the examples you are perhaps speaking of relate to factual scientific discoveries in an era where new knowledge clashed with church dogma. These 'activists' are not disseminating fact, but ideology in order to advance the vested interests of people or groups who have their own agenda to unleash. Many of these marchers have no interest in addressing climate concerns at all. The fact that all probably have a 'carbon footprint' as big as mine or even bigger attests to that. They are marching to advance the cause of socialism which is the overarching umbrella that binds all the niche interest groups together and promises to legitimise their mostly deviant or socially destructive causes...

[SpoolMan]

Climate change or no climate change who knows, does it really matter if we can run things to a comparable price and its cleaner with better for air quality why not.
They been making our cars run cleaner for air quality improvements since 70's.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Climate change or no climate change who knows, does it really matter if we can run things to a comparable price and its cleaner with better for air quality why not.
They been making our cars run cleaner for air quality improvements since 70's.

That's all good and well Spooly, but short of clean nuclear (fast breeder fission), solar, wind and hydro are not able to provide baseload generating capacity.

[Franco Cozzo]

Might be worth making it mandatory that all new houses as of 2020 require at minimum a 7.5KW solar setup, then you could reduce your load during the day when everyone is feeding back into the grid.

Whats an extra $15K on $400K that it costs you for a small house and land lackage?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Might be worth making it mandatory that all new houses as of 2020 require at minimum a 7.5KW solar setup, then you could reduce your load during the day when everyone is feeding back into the grid.

Whats an extra $15K on $400K that it costs you for a small house and land lackage?

Except that $15k becomes $40k once mandated...

[karj]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Were all the dam greenies marching when the state government built a 2 billion dollar desalination plant because some crackpot said it will never rain again in Sydney.

The carbon produced in building the thing then have it sitting there idling away doing nothing while warragambah is 91 perfect full is bordering criminal.

Yet no one had held Flanery to task.

I can't believe we continue throw money at this climate change BS...

Desal plants were not constructed because of climate change, or because of Tim Flannery. They were built as an insurance policy to guarantee water supply during drought events.

And heading into this El Nino, you may actually be glad that a government had the foresight to construct one.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

That's all good and well Spooly, but short of clean nuclear (fast breeder fission), solar, wind and hydro are not able to provide baseload generating capacity.

Lets hope we don't run out of coal then, it appears nuclear is the only capacity replacement or we go without.

===================================

Some challenges are very small compared to some.
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11444733

[FPV GTHO]

It's not impossible to run on non nuclear clean energy. European countries are doing it, even selling off their clean energy and importing other countries rubbish to recycle.

[Harrison]

I read somewhere recently that solar power costs about the same as energy derived (and delivered ?) from coal.

If that is true then we don't need to have a carbon tax, remove the greasy palmed subsidies paid to the coal companies and Bob's your uncle.

And sending electricity vast distances out to remote towns and communities through poles and wires is bloody ridiculous if it could easily be replaced with solar panels, wind turbines and Tesla style batteries.

The problem is that the power companies were given guarantees of future revenue when they signed the contracts. They are the ones behind the axing of the rebate schemes and solar panel subsidies, and probably are behind the anti wind farm hysteria.

That Australia is not creating at least 75% of its energy needs from renewable sources right now is an embarrassment to the nation and an obvious sign that we are living in an authoritarian corporate oligarchy.

Far more embarrassing than an assorted mob of noisy, socially concerned citizens exercising a little democracy.

[Trump]

I'd love to see how much energy is required to manufacture a Tesla-style battery and how much of an impact sourcing the raw materials has on the environment.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I have no issue with having a backup source of water like a desal plant. However I do take issue with how they were delivered. The way the respective govco's put the taxpayer on the hook for these facilities is beyond criminal. The PPP (public-private partnership) model of funding public infrastructure is nothing short of a criminal enterprise. In this example, Victorians are paying $1.8 million PER DAY for the next 27 years:

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...2/s3656791.htm

That's $17.7 billion for those of you playing at home.

Follow the money...

I have an issue with the Desal plant, damn too expensive when another dam could have been built for far less & more effective.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I'd love to see how much energy is required to manufacture a Tesla-style battery and how much of an impact sourcing the raw materials has on the environment.

Regular lead acid batteries are something like 95% recyclable, and cheaper than lithium technology at the moment.

Decent battery bank of 12V lead acid batteries and a big solar setup, my hippy dream.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by trublu

I have an issue with the Desal plant, damn too expensive when another dam could have been built for far less & more effective.

There is a problem with that and that is Victoria has no viable dam sites left.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Regular lead acid batteries are something like 95% recyclable, and cheaper than lithium technology at the moment.

Decent battery bank of 12V lead acid batteries and a big solar setup, my hippy dream.

How about manufacturing batteries from scratch? How much energy is used to recycle SLA batteries?

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Regular lead acid batteries are something like 95% recyclable, and cheaper than lithium technology at the moment.

Decent battery bank of 12V lead acid batteries and a big solar setup, my hippy dream.

Powering those sun lamps at night Big Damo?

[Pis-ton broke]

people say global warming is bs, wheres the proof? alan jones says this all the time. so we just blindly agree? cause its more convenient?

they say the science is in, its right, we hear. and then we hear it big money manipulating things. im a bit confused.

im going to support the kale and fancy coffee drinkers.

new technology is coming along all the time. and these are pioneering times in this field.

im happy i got solar at my place.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

There is a problem with that and that is Victoria has no viable dam sites left.



How about manufacturing batteries from scratch? How much energy is used to recycle SLA batteries?

Our most recent dam site was made a national park after the Liberals took it to the 2006 election.

I'm all for renewable energy, not because I believe in man made global warming (I am a believer in natural global warming as it has happened in the past in a much larger scale) but because if we can make our own power without raping the earth then why not do it? If it gets to the point where enough people are doing it then cost is no longer an issue.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

There is a problem with that and that is Victoria has no viable dam sites left.

Sounds like you have been listening & agreeing with the greenies with that statement.

[99AUXR]

I dont really know is there is allot of science behind global warming as it is more speculation weither its the earths natural cycle or human made scenario. However o-zone depletion is real, however as long as the montreal protocol is followed global its projected to be healed in some cases by 2050.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by trublu

Sounds like you have been listening & agreeing with the greenies with that statement.

Haha no, I just happen to know people that were involved in designing and building the Thomson dam in the 1980's. They are the ones that know that the rivers that can be dammed already are.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by marty351

Powering those sun lamps at night Big Damo?

Just my PC to watch porn

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Regular lead acid batteries are something like 95% recyclable, and cheaper than lithium technology at the moment.

Decent battery bank of 12V lead acid batteries and a big solar setup, my hippy dream.

All you need is a small scale desal plant to use the solar capacity once the batteries are charged up....else it's wasted power.

Then you are truly "off grid"....

Got one right in the shed behind me Damo.

(Was going to build an expensive hole/dam to catch water but desal was cheaper and guaranteed to work especially when it doesn't rain)

[Tom Tucker]

I'm not sure if I follow the logic. When you weight up the financial benefits involved with debunking global warming in order to maintain a multi trillion dollar energy industry vs a bunch of scientists with physical data and some hippies concerned about it, I'm failing to see the popular consensus here.
Why would any government introduce taxes that they know are unpopular? They have a motive for re-election don't they?

[flooded one]

Climate Change is a load of crap

[Trump]

Originally Posted by tempted

The Victorian desal plant, along with the Myki ticketing system and cancellation of the East West Link are three of the worst crimes ever perpetrated against the people of Victoria It makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall with full force.

Don't forget CityLink, EastLink, the various hospitals and anything else built as a PPP.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just my PC to watch porn

You'll need this for the server farm needed to maintain all that:

[Trump]

Whilst connecting the Eastern Fwy to the Tullamarine Fwy is a good idea, the one proposed by the blue team would have bankrupted the government in very short order. It was shrouded in secrecy since day dot and the cost to the state would have made the daily payments to the AquaSure consortium look like chump change.

Solving Melbourne's transport woes will require a combination of freeways moving commercial traffic and heavy rail based public transport moving commuter traffic.

[SpoolMan]

From climate to traffic, keep the thread on track or it will be closed.
The rest is for the ballot box.

[Trump]

I see where you're coming from Spooly, the others and I were just trying to make the point that a massive wealth redistribution is not the way to sort out any anthropogenic climate change issues and the desal plants came about as a response to perceived climate change issues at the time.

[karj]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I see where you're coming from Spooly, the others and I were just trying to make the point that a massive wealth redistribution is not the way to sort out any anthropogenic climate change issues and the desal plants came about as a response to perceived climate change issues at the time.

No they didn't. Desal plants were being planned back in 2004 (Sydney metro water plan) to guarantee water supply as we were in the midst of the protracted Millennium Drought, well before "climate change" became a really hot topic in Australian politics.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by karj

No they didn't. Desal plants were being planned back in 2004 (Sydney metro water plan) to guarantee water supply as we were in the midst of the protracted Millennium Drought, well before "climate change" became a really hot topic.

Yeah they actually did. The "Millenium Drought" was blamed on anthropogenic climate change. Except back then it was being referred to as global warming. The name then changed to carbon pollution and it has since morphed into the current climate change.

[karj]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Yeah they actually did. The "Millenium Drought" was blamed on anthropogenic climate change. Except back then it was being referred to as global warming. The name then changed to carbon pollution and it has since morphed into the current climate change.

The issue of global warming/climate change was kicking around back then, but it was only sometime after 2007 that the climate change issue became conflated with desal plants. Before that, the discussion about desal was more around the pragmatic issue of guaranteeing water supply during drought and not as a response to the threat of global warming or climate change.

I think the issues became conflated because desal construction began and finished around the same time as the climate change issue really heated up.

Originally Posted by 2004 news article

A desalination plant may help solve Sydney's water shortage but it would produce about the same amount of greenhouse gas emissions as more than 50,000 extra cars on the road each year.


Figures produced by the NSW Government when it was preparing its water policy suggest the climate may be sacrificed for the sake of guaranteeing future water supplies.