New Victorian Taxi design

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by Nikked

I think we have the oddest taxi in tamworth...a ssang yong wagon thingy...most still have Ba, Bf wagons, and a few camrys and at least on prius.

In a way, if the falcon isnt seen as a taxi, it could be benifical.

UGH! Got one of them Stavics in Busso too! Horrid things... Other than that it's AU's, a few B series, an AUIII wagon with a smartbar, and a couple of Toyota vans.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

UGH! Got one of them Stavics in Busso too! Horrid things... Other than that it's AU's, a few B series, an AUIII wagon with a smartbar, and a couple of Toyota vans.

I think it's the only Stavic in Busselton too.

Originally Posted by Nikked

I think we have the oddest taxi in tamworth...a ssang yong wagon thingy...most still have Ba, Bf wagons, and a few camrys and at least on prius.

In a way, if the falcon isnt seen as a taxi, it could be benifical.

I like that idea. It fits in with the premiumization of Falcon for export, and or Lincoln conversion.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Taxis are hardly bought new anyway, so why would Ford or Holden care. Designing one specifically for the taxi market would result in bugger all extra sales.

Next.

There is a reason Taxi's love Falcon. The drivelines take FOREVER to die, and when they do, they are replaced for $1200 (not sure if that includes fit or not).

The problem with creating an 'iconic' taxi, is that they'd all have to look the same, and only one can get the contract. So it should be pretty expensive for any city to do that.

FoA could import RHD Transit Connect's in taxi livery, but I don't think it'd be worth their time.

[OffRoadFalcon]

[QUOTE=Buntz93ED]I think it's the only Stavic in Busselton too. [quote]

unfortunately no... Ive seen a silver one around too.......

You in Busso eh?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

unfortunately no... Ive seen a silver one around too.......

You in Busso eh?

Yes. And if I see your white AU.... I will run you of zee road.

[Bobman]

Come on guys.

Ford stopped the taxi pack as it became unviable.

No manufacturer would waste investing into a niche market at a time where more people are catching public transport due to the price of cab fares.

Business as usual. Most cabs I see in Melbourne are BFs or FGs anyway.

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yes. And if I see your white AU.... I will run you of zee road.

Id look out for you too cept I dunno what you drive!

And as a Learner... Wouldnt be the first time Ive dealt with drivers like that!!
I seem to have attracted more hazards in 6 months than Mums seen in years...

[Bossxr8]

Not suprisingly the manufacturers have all knocked it on the head.



Making ‘black cabs’ for Australia does not add up, say car-makers
21 September 2012
By RON HAMMERTON
TAXI operators and government-appointed taxi industry reformers calling for London-style purpose-built cabs on Australian city streets seem to be out of luck – the primary potential contenders all seem to be unlikely to be introduced here.

The issue came to a head in Melbourne this week when the Victorian Taxi Association (VTA) echoed calls by an official state government taxi industry inquiry headed by Professor Allan Fels for purpose-built cabs with separate driver compartments and other advantages over the current crop of sedan-based vehicles.

VTA CEO Neil Sach told radio station 3AW that the current taxi fleet was no longer appropriate.

“They are family cars being pressured into a job they were not designed to do,” he said.

The VTA has written to five car-makers – Holden, Toyota, Ford, Kia and Nissan – asking them to come up with designs for a ‘super-cab’.

But contacted by GoAuto, these companies universally said the small numbers involved and high cost of development meant such a project was unlikely to happen.

One of the potential contenders – Nissan’s NV200 van – was offered up as an example of the type of vehicle taxi operators would like to see on offer in Australia.


Unfortunately, importer Nissan Australia has shelved plans to introduce its NV200 van to Australia, stymieing any chance of the taxi version that has been developed for New York and London being unleashed here.

Nissan won a contract for thousands of Mexican-built NV200s decked out as taxis to replace the traditional yellow cabs of New York City over 10 years from 2013.

But Nissan Australia PR and corporate communication manager Peter Fadeyev told GoAuto: “At present, there are no plans to introduce this model to Australia.”

The company said it had received the letter from the taxi association, and was formulating a reply.

The other most likely contender – the familiar London Black Cab produced by LTI in both the UK and China – also seems to be off the agenda.

LTI is owned by Chinese vehicle manufacturer Geely, whose Australian importer, Chinese Automotive Distributors (CAD), told GoAuto there was no truth to rumours in Melbourne that there were plans to sell latest model – called TX4 – in Australia from early next year.

The TX4 has at least one Australian connection – its automatic transmission is made in Australia by Geely-owned DSI International in Albury.

South Korean car-maker Kia, whose Carnival people-mover has been used as a taxi in some jurisdictions, has also ruled itself out of purpose-built taxi supply.

Kia Australia national public relations manager Kevin Hepworth told GoAuto that the business case for a specially developed taxi vehicle for Australia did not add up because of the small numbers involved.

Local manufacturers GM Holden and Ford both ruled out any specially-built vehicle to meet the parameters sought by the taxi operators and Prof Fels.

Ford Australia brand communications manager Neil McDonald said Ford had already dropped out of the taxi business with its Falcon – the vehicle of chioce of more taxi operators than any other in Australia – because it could not make money on them.

He said Ford had a specialised taxi based on the Transit in the United States, but the cost of introducing it to the Australian market would be “astronomical”.

GM Holden senior product communications manager Kate Lonsdale said the vehicle as described by the VTA did not fit with any Holden vehicle made in this country.

In his taxi industry report to the Victorian Government, Prof Fels noted that that “superior designed, purpose built, universally accessible taxi vehicles” were used overseas, and should be allowed to operate in the Victorian fleet.

“The inquiry recommends that more flexibility be incorporated into federal and state standards to allow these vehicles to be used in Victoria, including as wheelchair accessible taxis,” his report said.

“New outcomes-based vehicle standards should be developed for taxis and hire cars that allow for the use of wider range of vehicles offering better design, greater accessibility and improved fuel efficiency.”

[fordOwner]

Ive always thought Australian cities should have a specific taxi design. Even if they import the London Taxi cab.
They are the most comfortable and user friendly vehicle for city transport with foldable seats for an extra three people that face the rear seats and plenty of room for luggage or bags when seats folded.

Ford or holden sedans are just terrible to get in and out of. No foot space and squashy plus no luggage space except for the boot.

I think the cheapest thing that Ford Australia could do is reintroduce the Station wagon. Push the rear seats further back into the luggage compartment for greater foot space and give it a lift kit for ease of getting in and out then paint them in yellow only.

[Mr Hardware]

This thread is full of errors.

The MAJORITY of Taxis in Brisbane are Ford Falcons

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

This thread is full of errors.

The MAJORITY of Taxis in Brisbane are Ford Falcons

While this is probably true and you do have a lot of actual real experience in Taxi operation, as opposed to most here who have just ridden in one, the MAJORITY of Australia is not in Brisbane (or any other city, town or village) and the topic of this thread is new Victorian Taxi design.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by flappist

While this is probably true and you do have a lot of actual real experience in Taxi operation, as opposed to most here who have just ridden in one, the MAJORITY of Australia is not in Brisbane (or any other city, town or village) and the topic of this thread is new Victorian Taxi design.

I've worked in the taxi industry and am in Victoria.

My previous post as well as Mr Hardware's sums it up very well.

Falcons reign supreme and some "specialist" vehicle will never take off. Carry on.

[T-Pak Addict]

Crap... Where will I buy my cars from!!!

Love the fact that Victorians have to paint them yellow... Cheaper to buy a Vic cab than a Adelaide one...

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by ELCHASER

Also in adelaide we have prius taxis.. Use less fuel/lpg but still get charged the same as the thirstier commodores/falcons.. I agree one make taxis australia wide

we have them up here in townsville too, may be slightly cheaper in fuel but end up being more expensive in maintanence and replacing a battery every 2 years, most cabbies aren't afan of them and are slowly phasing them out

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by flappist

While this is probably true and you do have a lot of actual real experience in Taxi operation, as opposed to most here who have just ridden in one, the MAJORITY of Australia is not in Brisbane (or any other city, town or village) and the topic of this thread is new Victorian Taxi design.

Quite right.

To respond to the central thread point, there simply isn't a big enough market for this. Greater Melbourne region only has 3500 sedans, wagons and silvers. At an average turnover of about 3 years per cab, a market of 1200 cars at best per year would simply be unfeasable to produce. Hell, ford is having enough of a problem trying to justify a falcon at 1200 sales per month, how would some random company go with 100 sales per month.

Quite simply, it's a nice dream, but it just won't happen.

And i can't forsee regional Victoria having the same requirements as Metro Melbourne and for them, it'd just be easier to keep plugging away with the old BF wagons.

Someone bent your door and you want your cab back on the road, same day? Stay with a falcon mate.

[Vesper Martini]

Wouldnt a perspex barrier, & not allowing passengers to ride in the front do the job?? I dont ride in cabs all that often but im sure ive seen this.
Perhaps make it removable as its the nightime runs that require the extra safety.
I assume safety is what is driving this idea

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I've worked in the taxi industry and am in Victoria.

My previous post as well as Mr Hardware's sums it up very well.

Falcons reign supreme and some "specialist" vehicle will never take off. Carry on.

Well looks like one is about to give it a good hard go:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A87001D429C

[RASER]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Will revisit this post in a year or so.

How about just after a week? :

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A87001D429C

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Will revisit this post in a year or so.

Yes - we will wait and see

The VTD has chllenged the Fels report with it own commisioning of Delloites - the delloites investigators have some "concerns" over many of the claims and the validity and accuracy of many of the "facts" made.......

" They question the modelling and the validity of the Inquiry and identify many red flags "

There will b more to this thn meets the eye.....

At the end of the day....the public need to be the winners here......hope it all works out for the best......there are a lot of businesses and livelihoods on the line here as well.....

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by RASER

Well looks like one is about to give it a good hard go:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A87001D429C

Can only see this being sold here in very limited numbers and probably being used as wheelchair cabs once the BF Falcons are no longer able to be used.

Carry on.

[Road_Warrior]

I've ridden in "London" TXII and TXIII cabs many times. Let's face it: a taxi is simply something you pay to get you from point to point. A passenger doesnt give a stuff what make or model it is. Then again, maybe they do: it could be one of the reasons why the Falcon is perceived to be a daggy taxi/fleet/bucketobolts car and this rubs off on how people look at the Falcon brand. There is a reason Ford discontinued the taxi pack back in the BA days and it had nothing to do with the cost of providing the factory option...

The TX-series will do just fine as a taxi in Australia because most journeys in a taxi are city/suburban in traffic which really have no bearing on the handling prowess and drivability of the vehicle. They use proven Duratorq diesel engines (oh, I wonder which car maker those came from?) and a decent petrol engine. Body-On-Frame construction makes them more than capable of handing the rough and tumble of our crappy roads and from a user-friendliness perspective (both for passenger and the driver), they are much more logical and simpler than a family sedan or Japanese minivan. I'm surprised no one tried them in Australia sooner. I just put it down to the cost of them.

[Jastel]

There are 2 main problems with "alternative" vehicles

The first problem is the lack of supply of parts, knowledgeable mechanics/panel beaters etc. for anything other than a common vehicle.
This gets worse still if you dont happen to live in the CBD.

Problem 2 is the initial purchase price of a London cab or mercedes, when you can get an ex cop Falcon for 1/4 of the price of the imported thing, I know what I will buy.

The car must also be on an "Approved" vehicle list from the state transport comission.

Any government mandated taxi would also have to be wheelchair accessible and probably hybrid or electric to keep the activists happy.

Ultimately it is the cab operator who pays for it so he should decide.
I get many fares who wont ride in a "golf buggy", (Prius) and lose some to the vans when the people have too much luggage.
If the customer doesnt want to ride in it he doesnt have to.

London cabs have been trialled here before and failed...yet every few years someone brings it up again.

[Phildo]

Originally Posted by Jastel

London cabs have been trialled here before and failed...yet every few years someone brings it up again.

There's a guy in Perth who's been planning to bring in 200 of them for some time now. It was also meant to have happened by now.

His plan is to import 200 of them, get some government plates, and then lease out the complete vehicle on a long term contract.

Meanwhile, the company that makes the London cabs is pretty much broke anyway.

[Phildo]

- The Fels report is mostly crap. Anyone that knows the taxi industry knows that. What response will we see from the Victorian state government? Very little - the key recommendations are unrealistic, and so the government will stall for time for as long as possible. Fels really, really, really missed the mark on that one.

- Vehicles for taxis - need to be something that is readily available, not specific. Australia does not have the numbers to justify a specialised taxi vehicle.

- Costs - I paid $13,400 for my current taxi vehicle a year ago (2008 BFIII wagon). My current insurance cost is around $3,400 per year. Let's say that we have a specialised vehicle, and I have to buy one of those. At least $50,000 - an asset that will be worth zero a few years later. And at least $8-10,000 insurance per year. I've got to recoup that 8 grand insurance and 50 grand car cost from somewhere - the passenger. That's a pretty big fare increase.

- Availability of parts and workshop expertise - there are specialised taxi workshops, will mechanics that know everything about Falcons. The Falcons are simple easy to work on. Change to another vehicle and there will be no expertise, and vehicles will be off the road longer. Try taking a VE Commodore to a taxi workshop - watch all the mechanics run and hide, because the VE might be nice to drive, but it's a ***** to work on.

[Phildo]

Originally Posted by RASER

How about just after a week? :

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A87001D429C

"The TX4 is available internationally with a choice of diesel or petrol engine power, the former a VM Motori-sourced 75kW/240Nm 2.5-litre common-rail four-cylinder turbo-diesel and the latter a Mitsubishi-sourced 112kW/212Nm 2.4-litre four-cylinder unit.

With a kerb weight ranging from 1815-1975kg.

It uses front disc brakes and rear drums brakes and 16-inch wheels."


So, the diesel has half the power of an Egas Falcon. And weighs more. And has rear drum brakes (which will overheat quite easily).

What a nightmare.

Australia already has a specialised taxi. It's called an Egas Falcon.

[mik]

Probably a good thing, too many ferals around these days for driver safety in a standard car.

[Crazy Dazz]

WTF is wrong with Australian Governments?
Why is it that every time we need a bus, or a train, or power station, or gun, or fekking submarine, the government decides that our requirements are totally unique in the world. They then waste years and millions coming up with ridiculous specifications before going out to tender, and we end up with some half-baked abomination that costs us twice what it should have.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

WTF is wrong with Australian Governments?
Why is it that every time we need a bus, or a train, or power station, or gun, or fekking submarine, the government decides that our requirements are totally unique in the world. They then waste years and millions coming up with ridiculous specifications before going out to tender, and we end up with some half-baked abomination that costs us twice what it should have.

KInd of ironic how they fall over themselves to have these big ticket projects (some of them arent really that 'big ticket') made in Australia to support and stimulate Australian industry and industrial capacity, yet our primary manufacturing base is shrinking on a daily basis while they flap on about building a single warship here (and then still stuffed it up)

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

WTF is wrong with Australian Governments?
Why is it that every time we need a bus, or a train, or power station, or gun, or fekking submarine, the government decides that our requirements are totally unique in the world. They then waste years and millions coming up with ridiculous specifications before going out to tender, and we end up with some half-baked abomination that costs us twice what it should have.

Jobz for da boyz

Edit: I'm thinking at committee stage, the revolving door of committee attendance is lucrative indeed...

[JG34JA]

On topic:

Just dust off the tooling for the BF3 wagon and whack the EcoLpi motor in. Problem solved.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

On topic:

Just dust off the tooling for the BF3 wagon and whack the EcoLpi motor in. Problem solved.

Dust off the EF tooling and whack EcoLpi motor in. Nothing looked better than factory taxi pack EF in black and yellow .