Alleged War Crimes by Australian Soldiers

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by mad2

i have a 'simple' question ........... define "war"

A simple question that implies there should be no rules ? Were the civilians that in most cases pose no harm ?
Lets just use napalm, barrel bombs, biological, chemical warfare and get those humans out of harms way.

We are happy you don't make the rules

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by marty351

It appears that some here bave nfi about how wars are fought and why.
The reason our troops are deployed in these so called American wars is because there is this little thing called the GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR.

Having now fought this "Global War on Terror"......I don't feel safer than I did pre 2003. Do you?

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

"Global War on Terror"......

The term "terror" was publicised so the Yankers had a reason to invade, increase armory sales (for the U.S economy).
Most of it is bull**** that the U.S stir up pretending to be earth's police.
Sure there are hot spots but hasn't that been the case since the dawn of time ?

As if the Americans have the smartz to fix 'everything'. Ignorant ****ers

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

The term "terror" was publicised so the Yankers had a reason to invade, increase armory sales (for the U.S economy).
Most of it is bull**** that the U.S stir up pretending to be earth's police.
Sure there are hot spots but hasn't that been the case since the dawn of time ?

As if the Americans have the smartz to fix 'everything'. Ignorant ****ers

A Russian approach may be more effective, but we know why that won't happen.

[mick taylor]

Every Soldiers of ours could be charged with war crimes in fact over all history.

But fact is any Islamic person, no such a person could ever be charged with a war crime to another outside of their own mob ever, that just does not happen. do you know their laws ?

Our inbreed Politically Correct degenerate top rank ADF is a jerk ! why does he bring this up just now ? it's a Game the moron is playing to undermine our men and more than just that.

He has always been working to undermine our ADF in fact. he is a full on tosser and this inbreed jerks history shows he is a traitor to Australians in fact.
Oh does he want Australian men to serve in the Australian ADF ? well he in fact despises such in fact and has said such, do not bother to try and join the ADF if you are an Australian male, the ADF clearly say you are not wanted in fact, but they do want Girls and Islamic people, then you get top regard to join in fact.
Yes they now have set a Politically Correct agenda that rules over the whole ADF, 40% women is one of their task to obtain as well as a whole bunch of moronic idiot degenerate values nowadays.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Our inbreed Politically Correct degenerate top rank ADF is a jerk ! why does he bring this up just now ? it's a Game the moron is playing to undermine our men and more than just that.

Because 99.99% of our forces are good people and value human life. Insiders spilled the beans because they couldn't live with what they saw and say nothing. It was eating them alive. These men and women put their lives in at risk to fight for a cause, and murdering innocent people isn't one of them. I for one am glad we have these people fighting for us. May God bless them. I can't imagine what it would have been like to live with these stories for so many years. The suicide rates amongst ex forces needs addressing. IMHO.

[MITCHAY]

While tens of thousands of ADF members have served, specials forces have been heavily burdened over a long period of time.

This contributes to the environment in which these alledged crimes occured. You don't have to have served to figure out that being put under that stress for prolonged periods is not likely to do you any good. The amount who have died by their own hand tells you as much.

That is a failure of the chain of command and politicians and it is not right to throw these blokes under the bus and those at the top escape any responsibility.

[Cav]

[CoupeKing]

Weak men start the wars and send the real men to go fight.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

That is a failure of the chain of command and politicians and it is not right to throw these blokes under the bus and those at the top escape any responsibility.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Every Soldiers of ours could be charged with war crimes in fact over all history.

But fact is any Islamic person, no such a person could ever be charged with a war crime to another outside of their own mob ever, that just does not happen. do you know their laws ?

Our inbreed Politically Correct degenerate top rank ADF is a jerk ! why does he bring this up just now ? it's a Game the moron is playing to undermine our men and more than just that.

He has always been working to undermine our ADF in fact. he is a full on tosser and this inbreed jerks history shows he is a traitor to Australians in fact.
Oh does he want Australian men to serve in the Australian ADF ? well he in fact despises such in fact and has said such, do not bother to try and join the ADF if you are an Australian male, the ADF clearly say you are not wanted in fact, but they do want Girls and Islamic people, then you get top regard to join in fact.
Yes they now have set a Politically Correct agenda that rules over the whole ADF, 40% women is one of their task to obtain as well as a whole bunch of moronic idiot degenerate values nowadays.

The blue haired land whale diversity battalions will sort out the elite enemy units of the future, with a good stern talking to...

[Trevor 57]

I debated whether I should join this conversation, I am not sure if I could add much

These types of crimes have been around since day 1 in wars, it just in modern times a few thing have happened/changed:
* the media is actively involved
* soldiers wear cameras
* mates dob on mates

Do I support the actions of killing innocents in war, absolutely not, but I listened with interest last week when a former soldier (Australian who fought in Afghanistan) said, and I can't quote his exact words but it was along the lines of "we catch the bad guys, we hand them over to the authorities, they release them, we catch them again, hand them to the authorities, they release them again, and so on. These bad guys when released try to kill our people and others, sometimes they kill our people, so what should we do? keep handing them back just to be released for them to keep on killing or creating havoc?"

A great rhetorical question - what would you do, if time after time these people are released to cause havoc?

The Taliban don't fight normal warfare like our people are trained to

Should Australia get the **** out of Afghanistan - YES!!!! Another unnecessary war America and a Liberal PM has got us into

[Cav]

Former SAS sergeant Mack McCormack is more blunt: “For Angus Campbell to suggest the officers didn’t know and that this was happening on the periphery, and they weren’t aware, that is a total impossibility and that is the Officers’ Club door slamming shut on the guys who do the work.”

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Every Soldiers of ours could be charged with war crimes in fact over all history.

But fact is any Islamic person, no such a person could ever be charged with a war crime to another outside of their own mob ever, that just does not happen. do you know their laws ?

Our inbreed Politically Correct degenerate top rank ADF is a jerk ! why does he bring this up just now ? it's a Game the moron is playing to undermine our men and more than just that.

He has always been working to undermine our ADF in fact. he is a full on tosser and this inbreed jerks history shows he is a traitor to Australians in fact.
Oh does he want Australian men to serve in the Australian ADF ? well he in fact despises such in fact and has said such, do not bother to try and join the ADF if you are an Australian male, the ADF clearly say you are not wanted in fact, but they do want Girls and Islamic people, then you get top regard to join in fact.
Yes they now have set a Politically Correct agenda that rules over the whole ADF, 40% women is one of their task to obtain as well as a whole bunch of moronic idiot degenerate values nowadays.

Huh? Seen any female SAS soldiers lately? Cause I sure as hell haven't

In saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the intake standards to make it easier for females to get in, like they have done in some us services. I don't understand that though, considering the fem nazi's say men and women are equal in every way. And men can also have periods

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Huh? Seen any female SAS soldiers lately? Cause I sure as hell haven't

In saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the intake standards to make it easier for females to get in, like they have done in some us services. I don't understand that though, considering the fem nazi's say men and women are equal in every way. And men can also have periods

40% was the target I seen that the ADF wanted, noting to do with SAS so much but maybe their are some women in the SAS or they are trying to get in I am sure. good on them.
To be in the SAS it's not easy.

I have just come across a lot of people who openly display that the SAS is as if they are just yobbos who only walked off the street as some derelict who want's to kill people.
They killed them for no reason at all, is the cry.
I have heard this type of display for years coming from such stuck up media educated dupes who could not make the grade into only the ADF in the first place.

Not to mention that I get the same stuck up mentality in the last 10 years when doing in my trade, you know I have been in this trade from 1971 and here I am getting some ignorant demented clown looking down on me claiming to know better that I would because they have seen 2hr on the net about my trade, so they know better than me now. but the thing is if they came looking to get into my trade they would not past the test to get in, let alone have the ability to last the day out. but that's how deranged the public are becoming nowadays, just monumental cry baby's still in diapers.
Thank f that I am retired as I have had a gut full of such rude deranged people who want to treat you in such a evil delusional fashion.

Yes if a man claims to have Periods etc who am I to judge that's where our Nation is heading, f ing loopy ! thank f that I am nearly dead, I can't stand bold face lies dominating over me. I despise what Australia is becoming.

[lra]

Originally Posted by Cav

Former SAS sergeant Mack McCormack is more blunt: “For Angus Campbell to suggest the officers didn’t know and that this was happening on the periphery, and they weren’t aware, that is a total impossibility and that is the Officers’ Club door slamming shut on the guys who do the work.”

So true.
Didn't know .... BS. What ? No gossip, no stray talk, no slips of the tongue while having a few too many beverages ? No way. Very hard to believe that, if there was wrong-doing, they were unaware. Or, if they were aware, did nothing at the time.

I was involved in a Court Martial (not mine) where, as a SNCO, I warned my 'superiors' that somebody was due to do something that would cause grief due to his negligence. Their reaction .......... threaten me with a Formal Warning and/or Adverse Report.
When the person I warned them about went AWOL, leaving a huge problem, their ducking for cover and finger pointing was totally expected, and I was right in their sights. I thank **** that when the Court Martial came around, the guilty ******* pleaded guilty, sentenced and discharged.

That episode probably cost me an extra 2>3 years in my rank, while the 'superiors' climbed their ladder of incompetance. The higher the rank, the better they are at covering their backsides at inconvenient times.

[Charliewool]

I seriously think you are in need of some professional guidance Mick....
Angry angry angry ain’t a good place to be in mate

[lra]

I am concerned that the public perception of ADF members will revert back to the Vietnam era of 'baby killers'.

A number of members on this forum less than 50 years old, will not be aware of the attitudes of the late 60s and early 70s. During that time, we were encouraged not to wear our uniform in public, and growing our hair longer than 'regulation' was ignored.

Anzac Day 1968 .......... after participating in the march, a few of us went back to Base, got changed to civvies, and went to the Wagga RSL, intending to have lunch there. We were not allowed in, the reason being that we were not members and could cause 'trouble'. Of the group of 5 of us, 2 had recently returned from Vietnam.

My father was a staunch RSL man, but not once in his life did he invite me for a beer at 'his' RSL in western Qld. That was for WW2 members who had fought in a 'real war.'

I really hope, no matter what is the outcome of this investigation, that this prejudice does not happen again.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

40% was the target I seen that the ADF wanted, noting to do with SAS so much but maybe their are some women in the SAS or they are trying to get in I am sure. good on them.
To be in the SAS it's not easy.

These allegations only regard the SAS, and there are no female SAS soldiers. So this has no relevance to numbers of female army members.

I have no issue with women in support roles, if they can get the job done. Don't entirely agree with them on the front lines, but if they expect equality then they should have the choice to be shot at on the frontlines if they so choose.

Just don't demand equality, then hide behind their sex as a way to avoid serving in a war. That's not equality, that's picking and choosing.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

These allegations only regard the SAS, and there are no female SAS soldiers. So this has no relevance to numbers of female army members.

I have no issue with women in support roles, if they can get the job done. Don't entirely agree with them on the front lines, but if they expect equality then they should have the choice to be shot at on the frontlines if they so choose.

Just don't demand equality, then hide behind their sex as a way to avoid serving in a war. That's not equality, that's picking and choosing.

Mark Felton on youtube has a video on Russian schoolgirls (I think) holding up a Panzer division with anti aircraft guns near Stalingrad. They were wiped out and the Germans were not particularly happy about killing these girls in battle when they found out who they had been fighting.

The people demanding some sort of equality entitlement would not measure up to these girls in a bazillion years...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by superyob

Mark Felton on youtube has a video on Russian schoolgirls (I think) holding up a Panzer division with anti aircraft guns near Stalingrad. They were wiped out and the Germans were not particularly happy about killing these girls in battle when they found out who they had been fighting.

The people demanding some sort of equality entitlement would not measure up to these girls in a bazillion years...

Russian women fought in huge numbers. They didn't say not for me.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Russian women fought in huge numbers. They didn't say not for me.

Youtube 'russian night witches', bloody great story, inspirational

[aussiblue]

I often wonder if Australia's habit of turning murdering criminals like Ned Kelly and (Breaker) Morant into romanticised folk heroes has had a negative impact on the psyche and attitudes of some Australians including possibly those, if any, in the ADF who may be guilty of these alleged war crimes. If the allegations are true, it is almost like Breaker Morant all over again.

[Trevor 57]

ALL countries, in war, have committed war crimes, it is just we find out about it now and it hurts our collective ego

[Trevor 57]

I heard and ex ADF person talk, I am not going to say his name, but he was high ranking, he said and I quote "if I said 'Aussie Digger', what picture or image springs to your mind?"

[mad2]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

A simple question that implies there should be no rules ? Were the civilians that in most cases pose no harm ?
Lets just use napalm, barrel bombs, biological, chemical warfare and get those humans out of harms way.

We are happy you don't make the rules

so you over think things? .... your making/stating accusations about what type of person i am, yet you have never met me nor got to know me? which then proves your poor state of mind

it was a simple question, but it appears too simple for you



as to the "alleged" crimes - i'm - innocent till proven guilty _ your - guilty till proven innocent.

[Cav]

An excerpt from The Crossroad Mark Donaldson VC...........

The 2011 trip was the most successful, at that time, of any SAS squadron, if measured by the number of senior enemy leaders taken out. Without suffering one casualty, we had killed eighty or ninety enemy fighters, among them twenty-three or twenty-four commanders, each running substantial networks. It was a brutal business, but any feelings of compassion towards the dead were suppressed by our knowledge of what they’d been doing – and would have kept doing if left unchecked.

We’d set them back by months, if not longer. The next squadron would tell us there was nothing going on in that western area of Uruzgan for their entire trip. But there are always swings and roundabouts when you’re fighting anything less than a total war. The Q&As and other interrogatories about how we’d operated were putting a dent in morale.

Some time after that big fight, I was training with Devil. A senior officer was asking me why, that day, so many people had had to die. I had a simple answer. ‘Sir, they were trying to kill us.’ I explained in detail about being in that house, at close quarters, with those guns firing at us out of rooms. I explained what Devil had done, and how I’d shot the man who was fighting with Devil while trying to get his gun aimed at me.

The officer said, ‘Did you try to detain him?’ I was dumbfounded. The question showed a complete lack of understanding.

We were in a war situation, not a policing situation. There’s often a lot of exaggerated talk about ‘Kill or be killed’, but this time, that was what it was. If I, or others that day, had not killed, then we wouldn’t be here today and my children would not have a dad.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by mad2

i have a 'simple' question ........... define "war"

I think Clausewitz summed it up best; 'War is an extension of politics by other means'...

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by lra

I am concerned that the public perception of ADF members will revert back to the Vietnam era of 'baby killers'.

A number of members on this forum less than 50 years old, will not be aware of the attitudes of the late 60s and early 70s. During that time, we were encouraged not to wear our uniform in public, and growing our hair longer than 'regulation' was ignored.

Anzac Day 1968 .......... after participating in the march, a few of us went back to Base, got changed to civvies, and went to the Wagga RSL, intending to have lunch there. We were not allowed in, the reason being that we were not members and could cause 'trouble'. Of the group of 5 of us, 2 had recently returned from Vietnam.

My father was a staunch RSL man, but not once in his life did he invite me for a beer at 'his' RSL in western Qld. That was for WW2 members who had fought in a 'real war.'

I really hope, no matter what is the outcome of this investigation, that this prejudice does not happen again.

I have no problems with that generations attitudes, they were within their rights, they did not want to hear the nonsense from others who had no idea, or have to deal with trouble makers, because such people would make the heckles stand up on the back of their neck to hear their dribble.
Just look at the RSL now it's a joke.
Bring back Bruce Ruxton, he stood up for them.

In the 60's 70's I would hear the WW2 story's nearly every weekend, at the end of the party, they all always finished off talking about the war, many nationality's they were, high ranking to house wife's experiences. I found such very interesting but my elder bro and sister hated such and would go to bed. I even challenged one bloke about his story not being 100% true and my dad did not like me saying that but the bloke was ok with it.

That generation was very harsh people they did not tolerate nonsense at all. they had to be strict or they would not of survived back in the days of old. it's not like today were one can get away with being a total moron running looks doing whatever you want.
People nowadays who talk like they do and disrespect women down the Pub would get their lights punched out in no time.

People have no idea on the reality of history in context of reality of the days, talk about prejudice the youth today are reeking of such full on, they do not even understand what the word truly means, because they are not educated but only indoctrinated.

[T3rminator]

Scroll to "The 3 Deadly Minutes".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...n-sas/12028512


Somehow I don't think the ex service men and women reporting these incidents are talking about the 50-50, could be, maybe scenarios. Judge for yourself.

"War is young men dying and old men talking" - Troy 2004